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This is absolutely ridiculous. How are you a thread moderator? Actually address my arguments instead of pulling out strawmen.
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Sailor moon star seed downgrade
- Thread starter Theglassman12
- Start date
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- sailor moon
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This is absolutely ridiculous. How are you a thread moderator? Actually address my arguments instead of pulling out strawmen.
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He did. You're entire argument for abstract concepts hinges on a singular mention of possibilities and the supposed impossibility of Star seeds being physical because of them being held in the "heart".
I'll ping more staff to get this over with.
@UchihaSlayer96 @LephyrTheRevanchist @LordTracer @DarkDragonMedeus @LordGriffin1000
I'll ping more staff to get this over with.
@UchihaSlayer96 @LephyrTheRevanchist @LordTracer @DarkDragonMedeus @LordGriffin1000
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Lmao. So star seeds are physical and concrete because "anything can happen in fiction". That argument goes both ways. Anything can happen in fiction, so they're abstract.
Do you have any actual evidence that they're not abstract? That they're made of matter?
I have shown that star seeds:
- pre-date existence
- pre-date matter
- are stored within the heart, an abstract notion
- give form to non-physical phenomena
- are referred to as possibilities, an abstract notion
- are stored within non-physical beings
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Here we have characters contrasting the physical nature of their bodies to star seeds*. This comparison would make zero sense if star seeds were physical. Star seeds are like soul, mind, heart. They are metaphysical aspect of person. Trying to argue that star seeds are physical is a silly notion that any sailor moon fan or reader would disagree with it.
Sailor crystals are type of star seed*
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I think Glass is making more sense here.
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Lmao. Wonderful.
So it doesn't matter that star seeds fit ALL the requirements for Type 1 Concepts, but because the source material doesn't hand hold the audience and explain all it's mechanics like it's in kindergarten, this previously accepted ability goes away? It's not enough to compare star seeds to metaphysical aspects like the soul or heart, or contrast them to stand against the physicality of bodies?, No because, a character doesn't look into the camera and say, "they're abstract"...
Anyways, Information Type 2 will be staying. I have posted enough evidence showing it fits the very simple definition of "fundamental building blocks of reality". No where on the information page says, it has to be abstract. Denying that would just be blatant dishonesty.
So it doesn't matter that star seeds fit ALL the requirements for Type 1 Concepts, but because the source material doesn't hand hold the audience and explain all it's mechanics like it's in kindergarten, this previously accepted ability goes away? It's not enough to compare star seeds to metaphysical aspects like the soul or heart, or contrast them to stand against the physicality of bodies?, No because, a character doesn't look into the camera and say, "they're abstract"...
Anyways, Information Type 2 will be staying. I have posted enough evidence showing it fits the very simple definition of "fundamental building blocks of reality". No where on the information page says, it has to be abstract. Denying that would just be blatant dishonesty.
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Normally that's what happens when a downgrade thread goes through.
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Thank you. I will keep that in mind the next time I write another monologue.
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You don't need to prove that they are concepts, as totally ass backward as that seems, Bastard!! has CM1 by more or less the same reason sailor moon has, there are far more verses, but my memory is foggy AOF.
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Agree, but neutral about removing soul manipulation
Vietthai96
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Let not bring up other verses here, but anyway since you already do it, then we can take a look at Bastard!! blog, which from what the blog itself present, have far better statements and more backed up evidences for its arguments compare to the lackluster Sailor Moon blog that barely have scan and far less statements. Sure, from the surface they look somewhat similar, but that it
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If this is accepted then high godly regen would also be removed
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No it isn't, there are proofs of them being abstract, and being trascendental over the universe, but not about them being concepts themself. Meanwhile sailor moon has far more evidence about it being conceptual, like affecting people all across time, and governing absolutely everything, along with giving them meaning in an abstract way.
Hasty12345
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I think there should be metaphysical aspect types for aspects like this that don't necessarily fit into the concept, soul, or other current wiki categories.
Vietthai96
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Can you give actual evidences for this, because i'm also the one who read the manga, and aside from one or two scans about Starseed being possibilities and are the reason for...well, its owner power, that it. As Planck have said, thing that governing other isn't absolutely must be abstract, let along concept
There was a plan from someone to make Essence Manipulation page, but no one care and it got drown in the river of history. There are many verse that could fit this power, but well........
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I think it’s this maybe
Star seeds are one's identities and contain everything an identity is. The general effect of losing one's star seed is to be erased from existence
Hasty12345
Username Only- 5,176
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It seems to be the most logical thing to do,
These star seeds probably should be verse equalised to type 3 concepts, but a dedicated ability tied to these unique cases (that are fairly common) would stop these kinds of threads from happening.
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Just because some of them are based on personal things doesn't mean they are type 3, I mean, it is obvious that they trascend.
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- Thread starter
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@Livinmeme if that’s the same reasoning for Bastard!! Then the verse shouldn’t have concept hax either so stop with the whataboutisms, if you have any actual evidence to provide that they’re concepts by all means prove it.
@Iamunanimousinthat Can you actually make an argument instead of throwing strawman accusations on me and quoting the ability pages with no evidence to back it up for sailor moon? If this is seriously all you have then this stuff is gonna get nuked.
@Iamunanimousinthat Can you actually make an argument instead of throwing strawman accusations on me and quoting the ability pages with no evidence to back it up for sailor moon? If this is seriously all you have then this stuff is gonna get nuked.
Vietthai96
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The first scan is just using star seed as power source for Sailor Animamate to work
The second scan is talking about without her sailor crystal, she would not be a sailor guardian, because sailor crystal, which is a star seed gave her sailor power, cause each sailor guardian have their own personal sailor crystal which power based on the planets they represent. It is also an answer to why Sailor Animamate works cause, sailor crystal is star seed and is power source of sailor guardian.
The third scan is no, they still somewhat live, just their body fade away, kinda similar to how a person lost their body but still live as a soul. You could say that their existence depend on the starseed, they can only be erased if their starseed is destroyed which could potentially the biggest argument for concept thing, but again your existence could depending on a lot of thing and they aren't neccessary abstract let alone concept.
Well, you could argue starseed to be conceptual, but information type 2 is a big no
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A. Op has already proved that sailor moon does, infact, check almost every single box to qualify for conceptual
B. I am just saying that there is precendence of similar cases happening, and being accepted, for something similar. Yet something more solid being disqualified by such silly reasons would be massively hypocritical.
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What are you yapping about now? I have posted nothing but scans and explanations and arguments. You didn't buy it. So don't go accusing me of providing no evidence because that's not true.
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Anyways, for Information Type 2. The wiki defines information as the fundamental building block of reality.
I have already given enough scans that show that star seeds are the source of everything stars, planets, people, living things, etc. They are birthed from the cauldron where everything is born from and everything goes to die.
Sailor Galaxia can manipulate star seeds to recreate altered versions of the senshi. Meaning she's manipulating the fundamental building blocks of reality. Aka Type 2 information manipulation.
Accept it or don't. I'm not saying anything more.
I have already given enough scans that show that star seeds are the source of everything stars, planets, people, living things, etc. They are birthed from the cauldron where everything is born from and everything goes to die.
Sailor Galaxia can manipulate star seeds to recreate altered versions of the senshi. Meaning she's manipulating the fundamental building blocks of reality. Aka Type 2 information manipulation.
Accept it or don't. I'm not saying anything more.
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Slow your row. That is completely untrue.
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He said if
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I don't think you understood him, if this gets accepted then SM won't have HG, and OP said that even if this gets accepted, sailor moon still will have HG
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They specifically say they're dead. They can be regenerated with their star seeds.
It's not like a soul because, souls can still be conscious without their body and have access to their powers. The star seeds are independent as we can see the Sailor Animamates take them and use them for their own with no pushback or resistance.
Ironically I tried for this, and it was rejected as I was told that it fits information manipulation better. How times have changed!
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To be more specific, High Godly is regeneration from a fundamental aspect. This thread will simply remove Star Seeds from being indexed as CM1 and IM2 but that doesn't change the fact that star seeds are still fundamental aspects.
Also, Sailor Moon characters regenerated from History erasure as well.
Vietthai96
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This is objectively false and cropped from the page
It need to be information that is the building block of reality, not simply something that is building block of reality. Unless you can prove that star seed have anything to do with information or anything that is synonymous with information. Just because something simply being fundamental it is absolutely must be information, this is a huge leap and logic and NFL argument
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This is like talking to a wall, I suposse you need to see the same ******* scan that was posted two hour ago, for the trillon time.
Vietthai96
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What??, what did scan ever talking about information or anything of the same nature??, and why i must reading the scan when i already read and know the manga??, shit i readed the manga, watched 90s classic Toei anime, and even the new Crystal anime, somehow i needed to read the scans again for a trillion time because a guy think i'm wrong about how to powerscaling it?? Bruhh
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Star seeds are the identities of something, incluiding literally everything about that person/thing, if the star seed were to be destroyed, that person would literally be erased from existence, this apparently also affects across time, btw. And this is just basically cores from GOH, which were accepted by more or less the same reason.
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I agree with Glass.
Vietthai96
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This scan again??, seriously, she only talk about her sailor crystal allow her to have power make her a sailor guardian, and without it she wouldn't be born, met her comrades which somehow you two intepreting it into it made up identities and thing and then intepreting it up to the point it is both conceptual and informational???, oke so without my mother and father i wouldn't have been born and met my friends, is my parent have conceptual and informational power now?? i understand the interpretation, but again, a big leap in logic and borderline NLF
And let be fair here, we don't even know if destroyed starseed actually erase someone across history either, the only evidence is when Chiba Mamoru star seed is destroyed, his future self disappear which can be explained as simply time paradox acting, sure Chibiusa also disappear, cause she is his daughter in the future, but this not a topic for that
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- Thread starter
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@Livinmeme ok so you're not going to bother trying to prove that the star seeds are indeed concepts and still resort to whataboutisms with other franchises that have different and arguably better reasoning for concept hax than what sailor moon has going for it.
@Iamunanimousinthat Said evidence you posted is mostly just you quoting the ability pages and posting scans that have little to no connection to star seeds being concepts or information, this isn't evidence, you're just making a non sequitur by making a connection that doesn't exist in the series with the scans you provided. Also star seeds being the building blocks of reality doesn't make it information, information would have to be specified that it's directly tied to actual data/info of reality itself, and not just some other thing. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, something you lack given what this thread has proven.
@Iamunanimousinthat Said evidence you posted is mostly just you quoting the ability pages and posting scans that have little to no connection to star seeds being concepts or information, this isn't evidence, you're just making a non sequitur by making a connection that doesn't exist in the series with the scans you provided. Also star seeds being the building blocks of reality doesn't make it information, information would have to be specified that it's directly tied to actual data/info of reality itself, and not just some other thing. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, something you lack given what this thread has proven.
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You don't need to be conceptual to be conceptual (yes, that sounds stupid), because it is already accepted in the wiki
This wiki has already accepted what I said, you can't just say that it doesn't. Make a crt to change conceptual standards
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Elaborate on that?
Representing something's existence isn't evidence of it being conceptual btw, otherwise existence itself would be conceptual and all forms of EE would be conceptual
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- Thread starter
- #79
@Livinmeme It being accepted on the wiki doesn't mean anything if the argument is bad to begin with. Why do you think downgrade threads exist in the first place, because stuff that's accepted on the page doesn't automatically mean it's correct, especially if the arguments are this poorly made that a universal agreement on removing the abilities is happening here.
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Some abstractions are treated as conceptual because this wiki likes to give ratings like candies, and I want the mods to held responsable for letting this crap flood (mostly in the way of revisiting what qualifies as conceptual). Bastard!! is an example I have already given, which was just waved off because it was "bringing another series"
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