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Read the Tiering system sir.
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Sai Akuto VS Umineko Character Who will win?
- Thread starter Yzak07
- Start date
- Status
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Why do they tell me that, as if I hadn't already read it 30 times (in other wikis too)
Darksmash
He/Him- 1,494
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No she isn't. Anything above baseline 1-A is wank for Umineko. Heck I would say even baseline 1-A is pushing it considering creator level is reachable through the hierarchy just by taking the last step.No, Umineko stop ichiban High 1-A, because FAA will up to Boundless bro
Literal nonexistence isn't a thing. It's usually some weird hollowness shenanigans limited upto a particular ontological level. A high 1-A being will just erase Featherine's plane of existence and be done with it.
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- Thread starter
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My Friend said : Umineko will comeback to tier 1-A with The Creator is Boundless bro, So if you don't agree about that how about Umineko Blitz Ichiban ?
Darksmash
He/Him- 1,494
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Your friend is free to make a CRT and attempt to upgrade it back. Idk what you mean by blitz as speed is rarely relevant when we are talking about R>F transcendences
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On the wiki, unless you have feats affecting a character with NEP you can't. It doesn't matter if your High 1-A or Tier 0, you cant erase something that doesn't exist unless you have proof you can.
noxx
He/Him- 99
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can plot manipulation affect them?
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Powers follow a "Cant until proven otherwise" kind of logic. So if unless that Plot Manipulation has shown the ability to affect those who do not exist then it won't work.
Darksmash
He/Him- 1,494
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Can you show me an official page saying that this is the case? Because consensus isn't official and something agreed upon by a bunch of users wouldn't apply to other users.
Anyway, As I said before a high 1-A being would just erase Featherine's plane of existence and be done with it. NEP or not doesn't matter when she doesn't have a place to reside in.
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- #52
So you think Akuto can Kill FAA permanen or not ? I think FAA can still solo Ichiban verse H1-A, this is STOMP
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It's the same logic behind everything.
If you don't have a Soul you are immune to Soul Manipulation doesn't matter how potent it is or if it's 1-A in dimensionality.
Even if you have 12D Fate Manipulation and your opponent is 4D if they have NEP you need proof of being able to effect NEP.
Not existing is not based on dimensions or space. You don't exist so no amount of destruction is going to affect you no matter what level it's on.
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Ichiban is controversial as some say it caps out at solar system. If you believe that, then yes FAA would win. However currently this wiki says that Ichiban is High 1-A so if you go by that, it would be a stalemate due to Featherine's nonexistence.
As for Featherine's plot manipulation, do you all think it can affect those higher than her? If I recall correctly, it is stated that her plot manipulation comes from the fact she sees Kakeras as books?
As for Featherine's plot manipulation, do you all think it can affect those higher than her? If I recall correctly, it is stated that her plot manipulation comes from the fact she sees Kakeras as books?
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Question about FAA non-existance. So the justification is:
"Exists as an entity of nothingness at the core of her being, with her physical form being constructed and defined solely by her thoughts"
Couldn't this be applied to The Empty Universe and also other Extra-Universal Gods? It's been a while since I read act 13 so I don't really know how much this applies to them. But seems pretty similar IMO.
"Exists as an entity of nothingness at the core of her being, with her physical form being constructed and defined solely by her thoughts"
Couldn't this be applied to The Empty Universe and also other Extra-Universal Gods? It's been a while since I read act 13 so I don't really know how much this applies to them. But seems pretty similar IMO.
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You can survive in a void tho. So no it wouldn't help to do so.
Darksmash
He/Him- 1,494
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Immunity to soul manipulation is useless if someone erases your entire spacetime continuum. Your very ontological ground has been removed from existence.
Again they don't need to affect her directly. Just erase her plane of existence.
Not without feats. You can't just assume some regular human can survive in a void without the existence of the space time continuum that was supporting them. A high 1-A can even remove her plane of existence on a much deeper level than the analogy of the space time continuum.
Darksmash
He/Him- 1,494
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His high 1-A interpretation can kill her. If you think FAA is high 1-A go make a CRT
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Except that's kind of the basis of NEP in the verse? They are non existent in the void from which stuff are from. Meta Beings clearly are shown surviving the erasure of x plane through their NEP (Battler/Beato in ep 3/4 iirc) and Creators mostly have NEP their NEP state by default.
Besides it's actually a pretty bad analogy. That's like saying surviving in a void produced by an universe's erasure somehow is weaker than surviving in a void produced by a multiverse's erasure. It doesn't matter.
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It doesn't matter if you erase her Space-Time Continuum she doesn't exist.
Anything that does exist, can not affect something that doesn't exist because the two are already unrelated.
That's the glory of Nonexistence Physiology, it's a cheat.
Darksmash
He/Him- 1,494
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And a high 1-A being would be above Oblivion in the first place and can also erase it.
It's not the same thing. R>F layers have more ontological properties than simple universe/multiverse difference.
Something that exists inside a painting drawn on a paper can't exist in the absence of the paper in the higher layer's space without feats.
Delete her profile then lol.
As I already said literal nonexistence is not a thing. It's just some kind of conceptual hollowness limited to some particular sphere of existence. Besides, R>F gaps already breach existence/non existence barriers since they perceive lower layers as nonexistent.
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Nonexistence is not limited by its sphere of existence, as it is not existent in the first place.
Despite Akuto being High 1-A, it's impossible to describe a way he can effet her. That's because he can only affect what exists and FAA simply doesn't.
Erase her concept of existence? She doesn't exist. Erase her sphere of existence? She doesn't exist within existence. Erase her reality? She already doesn't exist.
See her as unreality? She is already nonexistent it makes no difference. If any argument involves existence it automatically doesn't involve her.
To affect her the only way is to say Akuto can affect her nonexistence. But he has no proof of doing so.
NEP is simply that OP.
Darksmash
He/Him- 1,494
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Make a CRT and delete her profile then. A nonexistent character cannot possess any kind of quantifiable and sensical properties as those imply some level of existence.
Also Akuto auto wins since he is facing a nonexistent character. Doesn't even need to erase her as she is already nonexistent in all aspects. Must suck to have that ability but it is what it is.
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Indeed those are potential limitations. Luckily she can still do whatever she wants while being nonexistent.
The beauty of Fiction and its paradoxes.
Darksmash
He/Him- 1,494
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Unfortunately contradictions don't have a place in a logical discussion as you need to form coherent and consistent arguments. So you either take a premise and stay consistent with it or simply concede.
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I mean you can make a CRT if you want but that's how NEP is accepted on the wiki.
Darksmash
He/Him- 1,494
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I already told you how NEP should actually work on the wiki(hollowness upto a certain existential degree). Transcendences would neg it. You have been making claims on the entire wiki's behalf without providing any kind of official page that states this is how NEP works on the wiki.
As it stands, Akuto simply perceives Featherine as fiction and nukes her entire story along with the page it was written upon. She has absolutely no way of tanking something like this. NEP cannot help her in any form here.
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Ok, then I'll make a thread since you refuse to believe it.
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So I went to the NEP page and there is a note:
Hopefully I'm not misunderstanding something but doesn't this mean Akuto can kill her with his High 1-A interpretation if he just erases the entire story and cosmology?
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This is talking about Non-existent beings that are incapable of action and do not even qualify as being sentient/alive or even animate in any shape or form.
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 8,905
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Umineko stomps
Read Ichiban and how they are anything above 1A is a mystery
Read Ichiban and how they are anything above 1A is a mystery
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- Thread starter
- #72
Maybe DontTalk can say it what the mystery, i think but Umineko STOMP !!!!!!
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- #73
So can Akuto kill FAA permanen in your opinion
? Because idk, i just new member in here hehe.
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- #74
Said to Darksmash bro, idk anything
. I just wanna know can ichiban kill umineko verse ?
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Why would be strong means being able to erase nothing?
Which is unrelated to the case at hand. AP isn't related to interacting with stuff.
And we litteraly have such feats with Meta Beings already.
Darksmash
He/Him- 1,494
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It's not literal nothing. It's just a void outside the cosmology. The concept of size and existence would still apply from a higher perspective. If it was literal nothing then it wouldn't exist and Akuto would win by default.
Except I was talking about the properties of the layers. Again why the heck would NEP be relevant when someone perceives your story as fiction and can erase it in its entirety along with its container?
As far as I know their feats only extend to oblivion(which is also just a property of the cosmology, not something they can do with any layer), And oblivion is infinitesimal compared to something on a high 1-A scale. So NLF applies.
Jechls
She/Her- 2
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Void body is not legitimately High 1-A.
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it is not supposed to be legitimately 1-A high, because akuto sai becomes its own law of identity and is not tied to the law of identity
Jechls
She/Her- 2
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Akuto pas void body bisa di argue ga bener² Transcends soalnya dia ga bener² lepas dari tloi, dia kan bebas atas se izin TLOI doang
Akuto's void body still debatable, he's not really transcends bcs he's not free from TLOI. He's free with TLOI's permission.
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