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Sagat's durability concerns

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DarkDragonMedeus

DarkDragonMedeus

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Sagat's durability is rated as Small Island level due to taking a hit from Evil Ryu. I personally find it strange for any Street Fighter character to be Rubber Tank/Stone Wall/(Whatever the antonym for glass cannon is.) From what I remember, Ryu was in his base form throughout most of the fight, and they were considered comparable, but then Evil Ryu knocked him out with one attack. I also heard that Ryu was trying to hold back his Evil form.

Should we consider Sagat's durability feat an outlier and have his durability be Small Town level+ like the rest of his stats?
 
I suppose that this seems reasonable, but would prefer more community input.
 
You can politely ask Matthew Schroeder, ScarletFirefly, and Grudgeman1706 to comment here if you wish.
 
Alright. Feel free to do so then.
 
There's quite a few things confusing about SF's pages, but I can bring them up here if you wish or just make a new thread.
 
Why is SFV Charlie Nash listed as Low 7C when twice in the game he fought Moon Powered Bison?
 
Charlie power comes from his determination, in base he fought with Chun-Li and when determined he fought with Alpha Bison. In Street Fighter V he has no determination as he knows he is almost dead, he fights with Ryu and Guile and a causal M. Bison, which he forces to sacrifice himself in order to weaken him and let Ryu finish him.
 
Ah, I didn't see that Dhalsim had the same problem. But I agree that all the Low 7-C characters with Small Island level durability should have their durability downgraded.
 
Sagat and Dhalsim Dura's are an easy problem to fix: Now that i think about it Alpha Charlie only fought with Chun-Li and Alpha Bison, in V where Charlie is brought back as the Illuminati Puppet, he fights a wide range of Low 7-C+, which are: Ryu, Guile, Urien, Base Necalli [But he had to escape from him], sans for Bison, which he defeated but regenerated from his black moons, but he cannot scale to him because it would scale to all other Low 7-C+ characters that he fought causing a messy scaling and Charlie previously said his current power can't catch up to Bison's.
 
I did not talked about the speeds and i know you want to bring again the Massively Hypersonic+ stuff, which was discussed and dubunked several times, the ODB also uses highballed stats for them like Town level+ Ryu.
 
Anyway, after downgrading Balrog and Dhalsim dura to Low 7-C+, we could downgrade Charlie to Low 7-C+ too since he mostly fought opponents of this tiers and his fights with Bison are outliers [Bison was fighting casually/trick him] or put on at least High 7-A for determined Zombie Charlie since he fought Moons Bison.
 
I'm fine with downgrading sagat as the story portrays him still below base ryu(although they did have a rematch fight which ended with an unknown outcome.)

Darks suggestion High 7-A zombie Charlie is a bit of a eeeeeeeeh for me because I don't know if Moon Bison was taking him serious enough for him to scale off. Other than that his other points are totally fine.
 
Dark649 said:
I did not talked about the speeds and i know you want to bring again the Massively Hypersonic+ stuff, which was discussed and dubunked several times, the ODB also uses highballed stats for them like Town level+ Ryu.
Click to expand...
It was debunked on frankly dumb premises, and the only reason the OBD has Town level+ Ryu is because their Chun-Li calc was never fixed to be Low 7-C, but rather it's (By our scale) High 7-C.
 
@Ever I don't recall it ever being debunked and the presides were not dumb. More people disagreed with the MHS + stuff.
 
It was debunked on the idea of "the ending isn't canon".

When there's no reason for M. Bison to be so much faster in this specific ending where he gets no specific power-up compared to the rest of the game.
 
The Everlasting said:
It was debunked on the idea of "the ending isn't canon".

When there's no reason for M. Bison to be so much faster in this specific ending where he gets no specific power-up compared to the rest of the game.
Click to expand...
Ever you know that wasn't the only argument used in that thread, it wasn't even the main one. Tons of things were debunked from that M Bison calc.
 
No they weren't. Bison moved at speeds comparable to his laser which crosses continents in seconds as you can see on the screen, and that speed wielded MHS results, nevermind Ryu's Shinku Hadouken was calced at MHS+ in a cutscene and plenty of characters scale to that as they can react to it.

It's simple.
 
The laser that hit Bison wasn't from a satelite in space, but rather some like statue thing that just shot into the air. I don't know why the calcer used lasers fired from a satelite (no clue what ending he got that from btw) and just smacked the speed onto that statue.
 
It was a Ki Blast thus his other Hadoukens should scale. Simple logic. Makes no sense to assume that one attack he hardly bothers using would be thousands of times faster than his other Ki Blasts. More sensible to assume they are comparable.
 
Yeah just like a Spirit Bomb scales to random blasts flicked out without a care because they're both Ki blasts.
 
Also even in power that's false given that the actual Special Moves Gouki uses in battles are likely superior to a move he doesn't bother to use in fights and did just for training
 
Listen the exact specifics of an analogy don't actually matter. The bottom line is that attacks, surprisingly enough, vary in ability. You can't scale 2 attacks to each other because "They're both ki blasts" especially when this one particular blast is a million times faster than every other blast in the series. It's really simple.
 
Why would this random attack Akuma uses for training and not actual fighting be so much faster than anything else he uses for actual combat?
 
It does matter, Xcano. If your analogy is built on false premises than it is worthless. You are saying that one move which Akuma does once for training is thousands of times faster than the moves he actually bothers to use.

Think about that for a second.

What logical reason would Akuma have to not use this move and instead resort to moves in your analogy are thousands of times inferior?

There is no logic reasoning.

The simplest explanation is that his Shinku Hadoukens and Gohadoukens are comparable to this random move in speed.
 
@Matt I'm not sure what you're trying to start here as far as I can tell he was editing grammar. Best not to try to start drama between staff yes?
 
My analogy couldve been about baseball and oranges for all it matters. As long as the point is "Just because these 2 things share some characteristics doesnt mean they share all characteristics" the analogy still works. In the case of the Spirit Bomb just because they are both "Ki blasts" doesnt mean they are the same AP or speed.

Maybe this move is faster but weaker, maybe this movie puts a strain on him, maybe this move is stronger and faster but also very inefficient in terms of the energy it uses.

We just dont know. He uses the move once, nobody reacts to it, no other attack in the series comes even close speed wise. So unless you have actual evidence that it scales aside from "Well I just feel like it makes sense" then I'd have to say it's a moot point.
 
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