Saber vs. Lord Boros

[Blanked]

^because? Oh, I think I get it.

 

[Hellspawn_Barbarian]

^good.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Ugh. It's a pain trying to figure out the votes.

 

[Blanked]

^deal with it.

 

[Quangotjokes]

There's no way Saber can complety atomize both Boros, and his super durable armor in one shot. It shattered, but still tank some of Saitama's punch.

 

[ScarletFirefly]

Armor matters little since it's durability is bypassed by the atomization. Same thing goes for Boros' body.

 

[Quangotjokes]

Armor matters little since it's durability is bypassed by the atomization. Same thing goes for Boros' body.

That's wank, nothing implies that it bypasses durability. By that logic that attack would work on nearly anyone.

 

[LordAizenSama]

I'm also not buying atomization from the quotes i've seen. Vaporization and nothing more.

Anyway Boros wins with higher ap and dura, and Regenerationn

 

[ScarletFirefly]

I'm also not buying atomization from the quotes i've seen. Vaporization and nothing more.

Vaporisation: Applied when the matter that was destroyed was vaporised during the attack. Much like for Pulverization, we usually use this value when we see no remains of the matter that was destroyed in the attack, but in addition there has to be a considerable amount of visible vapor and/or character statements that imply vaporization, usually the latter.

There was no visible vapor whatsoever and no one stated nor implied that he got vaporised. On the other hand there are more than 1 cases supporting atomization.

 

[Reppuzan]

@LordAizenSama

A video to show Scarlet's point. When Saber was done, there was nothing left of the Holy Grail, with the light particles falling simply being the remnants of Excalibur's holy light.

 

[DontTalk]

Well, a point I wanted to address regarding vaporization sometime: Technically there doesn't need to be anything visible. If water, for example, is boiled, what you see of the water vapor are actually tiny droplets of fluid water, which didn't become a gas yet. If water is vaporized properly, so that no such droplets remain, you see nothing left (at most the things behind look a bit shifted, because water vapor has a different refractive index than air).

So nothing being left is technically no proof for atomization at all.

Technically every atom being exposed to the impact doesn't necessarily imply atomization either. If I heat an object up I basically also make every atom in the object vibrate stronger. So there actually is a difference between the attack having an effect on all atoms at once and destroying all molecule bonds or being able to affect single atoms.

Just a bit to think about in that regards, with that I leave the rest of the discussion to people who actually care about the character and know about it. *flies away*

 

[Reppuzan]

@DontTalk

The difference is the fact that there are explicit statements of atomization with Excalibur's usage. If it were Goku shooting a Kamehameha, sure, I'd buy that argument, but given the narration explicitly saying atomization (and the only other weapon available in the war able to kill the Cthulhu-type monster was the concept busting Ea along with the fact that Gil's Vimana was equipped with actual magical nukes), I'm leaning towards the latter.

I'm not sure if this would translate into AP, or if this would just be considered an important aspect of the extent of Excalibur's damage.

 

[Lina_Shields]

@Reppuzan: Just wanted to make a note that there is a major difference between atomization and atomic annihilation.

• Atomization: Breaks down said target into its individual atoms
• Atomic Annihilatio Breaks down said target into individual atoms, and destroys said atoms altogether.

Some people are interchanging between atomization and atomic annihilation but this needs to be cleared up.

Also, it takes tremendous amounts of energy just to break a small amount of object and destroy those atoms that make up those object (1 cc of water takes about 6.71e12 Joules worth of energy to atomically annihilate while it only takes 30852 Joules to just atomize per cc)

But then, the quote I am referring to is explicit about Excalibur evaporating the said targets it makes contact with, but not very clear about whether Excalibur destroying those atoms or not, but saying that the atoms were exposed to Excalibur's blast.

Nevertheless, a re-calc should be done on that feat.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Lina

I see, I guess I have been using them interchangeably.

That said, I personally don't think this should scale to AP, as even a supercharged Excalibur Morgan was unable to put down a fully stocked Berserker for good. However, it would be good to describe the extent of the damage, as being reduced to atoms would stop Boros from regenerating in this case.

 

[Bleuburd]

It's hard to argue on Boros' side, since the only feat his sealed form ever had is walking down a flight of stairs and then getting one-shotted. We don't know how fast or how strong he is, or what abilites he has access to. It seems as though everyone agrees that he still has regen. And i don't think Boros would get hit by the invisible sword or excalibur since Boros can see energy. If the excalibur really is above his paygrade, then he'd dodge it. Oh, and if ever Boros would be able to close the distance (i think he will, or more like Saber will let him), Saber's regen wouldn't save her because Boros combos his attack. after losing one limb she'll lose another one, until there's nothing left to lose. But then again I don't know enough info to cast a proper vote.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

This is quite the hassle.

 

[DaFritzi]

After taking all arguments above into consideratio I'll give it to Saber.

Whether excalibur is atomization or vaporization doesn't matter here since Boros regen is only high-mid (not mid-high). When he was blown to "bloody mist" his eye stayed whole, so I don't think he could regenerate from excaliblast. People are overestimating Boros regen far too much as it was never shown to be that high.

Regarding Excalibur: Vaporization: definitely at least that; Atomization: quite plausible; Atomic Annihilation: would be too much, don't think this was ever implied in Fate

@Scarlet Firefly: Please add the note concerning Excaliburs nonexistent chargetime, otherwise this will cause confusion every time.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

I think boros would win. Any casual strike from boros would beat saber. There is also a gap in the AP stats and saber is High 7-A only with her noble phantasm, while boros is at that level with normal strikes.

 

[DaFritzi]

That is only if he manages to close the 4km gap, without being hit by excalibur.

Also Sabers precog should enable her to evade boros attacks should he indeed manage to get close.

 

[ScarletFirefly]

More quotes supporting atomization.

Caster wordlessly watched this moment of white blinding annihilatio which had stolen his heart.

Before the murmur left his mouth, all matter was brought into another world, annihilated by the white light.

 

[Lina_Shields]

After researching this specific quote a bit more:

A silent scream rose from the evaporating river water as every single atom of the giant sea demon—once the embodiment of terror—was exposed to the scorching impact.

It seems that Excalibur is specifically stated to evaporate whatever it touches, but it is not directly stated on whether it actually destroys said atoms or not, but it merely touches said atoms.

According to the rules here on the Wiki, atomization/atomic annihilation cannot assumed unless said verse directly states that said technique can do so.

So Excalibur will not destroy said target's atoms unfortunately.

 

[ScarletFirefly]

It seems that Excalibur is specifically stated to evaporate whatever it touches, but it is not directly stated on whether it actually destroys said atoms or not, but it merely touches said atoms.

Wouldn't this still ignore durability to an extent? Since it attacks every atom individually?

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

@scarletfirefly : no it would not

it evapourated the water with energy and thats what happened, the statements is made to show that the creature was entirely in the range of the attack

oh and one more thing, isnt the excaliber energy like really spread out over a large volume? so if its around small island level in a large spread, then only a small fraction of the total energy would affect boros right? as a result, boros could just walk through it without being damaged

 

[ScarletFirefly]

oh and one more thing, isnt the excaliber energy like really spread out over a large volume? so if its around small island level in a large spread, then only a small fraction of the total energy would affect boros right? as a result, boros could just walk through it without being damaged

She can constrict the attack. That's also a full powered Excalibur however the ray is narrower since the target is smaller.




Anyway, since apparently that doesn't ignore durability, this turns into a stomp for Boros since he will not be vaporized by Excalibur because of his higher Durability. He will take some damage but regen will take care of that and he only needs a single strike to kill her.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

how well can she manuver a constricted attack and how long does it take to control and constrict it like that anyway? if it takes too long, then boros just seend to get close enough to only tap her lightly to beat her

 

[DaFritzi]

It didn't seem to take her any longer than normal excaliblast

Also she was able to aim at rider (riders speed is hypersonic+, in the same league as saber) who was charging her without problem. So aiming won't be a problem as long as speed is equalized.

 

[Burstchaos]

So has it been decided whether Excalibur atomises or vaporises, because one of them two should be added to her profile, along with probably a relevant quote providing evidence for it.

 

[ScarletFirefly]

how well can she manuver a constricted attack and how long does it take to control and constrict it like that anyway? if it takes too long, then boros just seend to get close enough to only tap her lightly to beat her

It's practically just a simple swing of the sword and nothing else, no diffculties controlling it. The beam of light doesn't start expanded out and then constricts, it can start either way. And she pulled it out and intercepted a point-blank range attack from Iskandar's Gordius Wheel in Zero.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

even in that case, boros can just regenerate

 

[ScarletFirefly]

even in that case, boros can just regenerate

Hence the reason this is a stomp. If her strongest attack can't do anything to him, her casual strikes sure won't.

 

[Bleuburd]

Wait, so Saber's trump card only does large island damage? I'll go with Boros. This will be a long fight due to Saber's precog. But once she get's tagged or mistakenly tries to block Boros attacks, then there goes her limbs.

 

[Lina_Shields]

@Bleubird: Small Island level actually. If Saber was Large Island level, this battle would have been a stomp in Saber's favor.

 

[Bleuburd]

@Bleubird: Small Island level actually. If Saber was Large Island level, this battle would have been a stomp in Saber's favor.

Oh thanks.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Guys, remember that Saber is allowed to retreat into Avalon.

 

[Lina_Shields]

I thought Saber cannot move while fully retreated into her Avalon?

Also, from what I remember with Avalon, it takes some time for Avalon to heal injuries, such as the scene where it took some time for Kiritsugu to heal after taking Kirei's death blow, as well as Saber taking some time to get herself back up after tanking Gil's Enuma Elish during the final battle (although this is from the anime and not the VN, not sure.)

 

[Burstchaos]

Guys, remember that Saber is allowed to retreat into Avalon.

I don't think that would do a lot as she still has to get out in order to do something to Boros. Unless she plans to spend her entire life in there, which really shouldn't be fair.

Plus, is anyone going to add a note to Saber's profile that Excalibur doesn't atomise but vaporises, or vice versa?

 

[ScarletFirefly]

Activating the Distant Utopia won't do her any good since she can't stay there forever and she can't harm Boros even with her strongest attack. It can probably damage him slightly but his regen will take care of it.

I don't remeber the VN part with Gil, but it's likely Kiritsugu played dead to catch Kirei off guard.

There's no feasible way for her to win this.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Okay, so guys is this a stomp? I didn't know the difference between Small Island and Small Island+ was this significant.

 

[ScarletFirefly]

Okay, so guys is this a stomp? I didn't know the difference between Small Island and Small Island+ was this significant.

His Durability is listed as possibly higher. But anyway, that's not the point. The point is Boros will regen the damage right back, seeing as Saber lacks the AP to vaporize him completely, and Excalibur doesn't bypass durability.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Alright. Switching my vote to Boros seeing as Excalibur doesn't atomise