RWBY: Atlas Bomb Scaling

[Cire]

Hello, everyone. Today, I am going to make a CRT in support of scaling Vine and the cast to the bomb on V8.



Here, you can see Vine successfully containing the bomb meant to destroy Mantle. Now, some will say that because Vine dies, this automatically disqualifies this from being a true feat. But I am here to disprove that claim.

First, Vine’s semblance, as implied by himself, is an extension of his aura. Aura is used to generate a force field around the body. He even recommends to Jaune to extend his aura out in the V7 montage. Thus, he is literally extending his own personal forcefield out for attacks and defense. This is supported by the World of Remnant, which states that semblances are projections of aura in a more tangible form.

Secondly, Vine can create this level of power at any time and not die. He is able to create a construct capable of containing the bomb at any point and still live. He could bubble something and be just fine. So already, he just straight up scales to the bomb just from that.

Some will point out that Vine still does nevertheless in the feat. However, he only does so because he lowers his personal shield down to do so. It is canon that using one’s semblance takes away from one’s personal shield. Thus, Vine’s personal protection was weakned by creating that bomb. So when he took the hit from the bomb, of course he would die. However, if he had laid all of his onto himself, he would have lived.

This leads to another counterpoint I want to address, which is Harriet stating that they would all die in the blast radius. This one is easiest to talk about. No normal person would feel confident about tanking any bomb at any level. And, as seen when Vine uses his aura to tank the bomb, to which Harriet and the others would scale to, they would have lived. This is honestly consistent when we already have most of the cast at 2 megatons from downscaling from Cinder breaking Ozpins’s shield, who CAN take the magic nuke. The maidens are considered superior to the main cast anyway, so Team RWBY scaling to this isn’t out of the blue.

There are also no statements to indicate that Vine’s arms are any more durable than his regular aura. Again, I point to the fact that Vine recommends Jaune to do the same thing in the V7 montage, showing that it is a learned trait, somewhat.

In terms of how this scales to offense, in a recent cameo, Miles confirms that aura is tied to the strength of the characters, basically allowing them to pull of Rule of Cool concepts

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Thus, since Vine can use his aura in offense and defense, and since Yang and Blake have beaten him, they, and the rest of the Atlas class, should scale.

In terms of power, I am comfortable with putting them in the city ranges as of now, nearing towards the 10 megatons mark.

 

[Spinoirr]

Here to watch the chaos

 

[Da3ggman]

I don't know much about RWBY scaling, but you'll want to include a lot more scans in your CRT, especially for the statements; just saying where it is stated is not enough.

 

[Cire]

I don't know much about RWBY scaling, but you'll want to include a lot more scans in your CRT, especially for the statements; just saying where it is stated is not enough.

True. I am at work at the moment and don’t have access to my PC.

 

[Cire]

Here to watch the chaos

I really wish you would engage in this with good faith instead of being pre disposed to not believe it.

 

[Theglassman12]

The fact you unironically think this somehow scales to Vine despite the bomb blatantly killing him, as well as threatening numerous hunters and huntresses in Mantle despite having aura and being comparable to characters who fought Vine and his group astounds me. If you wanna scale vine to it, prove he didn’t die to the bomb.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Can you prove that Vine making his bubble cost him so much Aura that his personal shield was heavily taxed? Last I checked that is confirmed no where and you’re just kind of saying it did because… yes?

And if he did pour so much Aura into his semblance that his personal shield failed, then wouldn’t that mean he has to pour that much Aura into EVERY attack he does in order to be comparable to the bomb?

And heck, forget dying to the bomb. Have you considered that Vine’s semblance just makes his Aura different from everyone else’s?

No one else’s Aura is stretchy or conforms to attacks. His Vines are even physically stronger than he is, allowing him to restrain people that are usually comparable to him like Blake. Why should it be assumed that the durability would be the same if other properties are different? Are there examples of other people doing stretchy things with their Aura?

“Miles confirms that Aura is related to the strength of the characters” no he doesn’t? He says that when you have your Aura unlocked, and can do things like project a shield (the passive forceifeld) or activate dust, then you get a “bit of a strength boost.” He even directly stated that most characters follow the “Rule of Cool,” implying they are as strong or weak as is required as long as it is “Cool.”

He says nothing about having more Aura making you stronger than someone else. He doesn’t even mention Aura being projected into attacks. The only thing he says is that, when you unlock your Aura, it makes you a bit stronger, and it does that because they want the fights to be cool.

No where is it stated that you can divert all of your Aura into an attack, or that the amount of Aura you have correlates to your AP, or that the forcefield around you correlates to your AP. NOTHING connects Aura to AP other than “when you unlock it, you get stronger, as per the rule of cool.” “A regenerating shield that also gives some strength bonuses.”

 

[Cire]

You

The fact you unironically think this somehow scales to Vine despite the bomb blatantly killing him, as well as threatening numerous hunters and huntresses in Mantle despite having aura and being comparable to characters who fought Vine and his group astounds me. If you wanna scale vine to it, prove he didn’t die to the bomb.

You have not addressed any of my points and only continue to harp on stuff I have discussed.

 

[Cire]

Can you prove that Vine making his bubble cost him so much Aura that his personal shield was heavily taxed? Last I checked that is confirmed no where and you’re just kind of saying it did because… yes?

And if he did pour so much Aura into his semblance that his personal shield failed, then wouldn’t that mean he has to pour that much Aura into EVERY attack he does in order to be comparable to the bomb?

And heck, forget dying to the bomb. Have you considered that Vine’s semblance just makes his Aura different from everyone else’s?

No one else’s Aura is stretchy or conforms to attacks. His Vines are even physically stronger than he is, allowing him to restrain people that are usually comparable to him like Blake. Why should it be assumed that the durability would be the same if other properties are different? Are there examples of other people doing stretchy things with their Aura?

“Miles confirms that Aura is related to the strength of the characters” no he doesn’t? He says that when you have your Aura unlocked, and can do things like project a shield (the passive forceifeld) or activate dust, then you get a “bit of a strength boost.” He even directly stated that most characters follow the “Rule of Cool,” implying they are as strong or weak as is required as long as it is “Cool.”

He says nothing about having more Aura making you stronger than someone else. He doesn’t even mention Aura being projected into attacks. The only thing he says is that, when you unlock your Aura, it makes you a bit stronger, and it does that because they want the fights to be cool.

No where is it stated that you can divert all of your Aura into an attack, or that the amount of Aura you have correlates to your AP, or that the forcefield around you correlates to your AP. NOTHING connects Aura to AP other than “when you unlock it, you get stronger, as per the rule of cool.” “A regenerating shield that also gives some strength bonuses.”

Nowhere does it state that Vine’s semblance is as stronger than his aura. You have to prove that is the case. And Vine recommending Jaune do the same shows that it is not a property exclusive to him. And it’s a simple fact that using your own semblance lowers aura. It’s a canon fact. I’m not saying that Vine had no defensive shield, but that his shield was weakned. And we know that having a weakned shield can lead to one shots.

 

[Cire]

Also, please don’t speak in caps lock. It makes you come across as overly aggressive and dimishes any point you want to make

 

[Cire]

The fact you unironically think this somehow scales to Vine despite the bomb blatantly killing him, as well as threatening numerous hunters and huntresses in Mantle despite having aura and being comparable to characters who fought Vine and his group astounds me. If you wanna scale vine to it, prove he didn’t die to the bomb.

Also, please don’t assume that I am an idiot for putting this forth. I wouldn’t be arguing this if I didn’t think I did not have a good ground to talk on. I understand that you are skeptical, but please do not diminish me like that. I have respect for you. Please show me the same courtesy.

 

[Theglassman12]

Did I remotely say you’re an idiot? Because I never said that at all, also prove that Vine didn’t die to the bomb then maybe you can argue that he scales.

 

[Cire]

Your tone and the fact that you won’t even argue against MU counterpoint shows it. You used “unironiclly” as though I am extremely absurd in even suggesting this motion. And the fact that you want me to prove that he didn’t die, which you know I can’t do, is another showing. If you want to disagree, that is fine. But I would appreciate if you argue in good faith and refute the points I actually make, like how King did with his comments about AP.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

Nowhere does it state that Vine’s semblance is as stronger than his aura. You have to prove that is the case. And Vine recommending Jaune do the same shows that it is not a property exclusive to him. And it’s a simple fact that using your own semblance lowers aura. It’s a canon fact. I’m not saying that Vine had no defensive shield, but that his shield was weakned. And we know that having a weakned shield can lead to one shots.

You didn’t even talk about the entirety of my AP point or the several other things I said, but ok.

His Aura is already different from everyone else’s, there is no baseline understanding for how durable it is when he’s using his Semblance. The fact that it exhibits properties different from usual Aura automatically disqualifies applying normal things to it, on top of it being a Semblance. If his Aura becomes stretchy and conforms to attacks to better absorb them, why would it have anything else similar to his base forcefield?

Using your semblance lowers your aura a small amount, and never has it been shown to drastically lower someone’s Aura to the point of crippling their shielding. Do you have a statement of how much Aura is spent using a semblance? Or that Vine’s usage here was astronomically higher than his normal usage?

You have to actually prove what you’re saying, not just claim “it’s not stated it DOESN’T do this therefore it must.” Saying “it’s never stated his Semblance has more durability” is irrelevant if you can’t prove the contrary of “it’s never stated his Semblance does have more durability.” So far, his Semblance contained the bomb, he died to it, and there is nothing to suggest his shielding was heavily lowered.

Also: you can have barely any Aura left and its durability will be the same. Him having low Aura is irrelevant, as it would still protect him from the same level of attacks that he could normally withstand.

So if he could normally withstand the bomb, he would have survived per your interpretation.

 

[KingNanaya]

But I would appreciate if you argue in good faith and refute the points I actually make, like how King did with his comments about AP.

Hi

 

[KingNanaya]

I disagree because bro got turned into a pack

 

[Cire]

Also: you can have barely any Aura left and its durability will be the same. Him having low Aura is irrelevant, as it would still protect him from the same level of attacks that he could normally withstand.

So if he could normally withstand the bomb, he would have survived per your interpretation.

no it would not since, at that point, the attack just bypasses the aura and you get one shot. Like Yang fighting Adam in V3.

Using your semblance lowers your aura a small amount.

How do you know it’s small? All semblances drain aura in different rates. Tock is able to use hers for only a minute while Marrow can hold three people in place for minutes on end. There is not a consistent rate. Also, in the director’s commentary of V8, they state that Marrow’s aura shield was lowering due to said holding, and that when he was hit by the suicide drone, that is what completely broke his remaining aura.

 

[Cire]

.

No where is it stated that you can divert all of your Aura into an attack, or that the amount of Aura you have correlates to your AP, or that the forcefield around you correlates to your AP. NOTHING connects Aura to AP other than “when you unlock it, you get stronger, as per the rule of cool.” “A regenerating shield that also gives some strength bonuses.”

The entire reason why the characters are so strong as they are is because of aura boosting them. It is the crux of the question asked to Miles. The question was if the characters are super human or if aura boosted them, and he answered the latter. He never said they were super human on their own. Heck, this is shown in V2, when Ruby breaks her aura on her fall in Mt Glenn and tries to fight some White Fang goons. She barely does any damage before they easily subdue her. With her aura, she is strong enough to stomp a giant bird into a ship in V3.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

The entire reason why the characters are so strong as they are is because of aura boosting them. It is the crux of the question asked to Miles. The question was if the characters are super human or if aura boosted them, and he answered the latter. He never said they were super human on their own. Heck, this is shown in V2, when Ruby breaks her aura on her fall in Mt Glenn and tries to fight some White Fang goons. She barely does any damage before they easily subdue her. With her aura, she is strong enough to stomp a giant bird into a ship in V3.

I wouldn't use a feat after that to try and show something she can do before it, especially when we know she's been training a lot between episodes to get better. It also doesn't help that people without Aura have also shown superhuman feats too so that's a bad argument.

 

[Cire]

His Aura is already different from everyone else’s, there is no baseline understanding for how durable it is when he’s using his Semblance. The fact that it exhibits properties different from usual Aura automatically disqualifies applying normal things to it, on top of it being a Semblance. If his Aura becomes stretchy and conforms to attacks to better absorb them, why would it have anything else similar to his base forcefield?

Again, he states to Jaune to extend his aura, showing that this is a learned trait. And if it is an extension of his aura, that still means that he is generating that level of power within himself and still living. Again, he can make this at any time without dying. And other characters can scale to this level of aura.

 

[Theglassman12]

Ok so you admit you cannot prove that Vine can survive the bomb, which means his physical stats does not scale to the bomb in anyway shape or form. Good job shooting your own argument in the foot.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

no it would not since, at that point, the attack just bypasses the aura and you get one shot. Like Yang fighting Adam in V3.


How do you know it’s small? All semblances drain aura in different rates. Tock is able to use hers for only a minute while Marrow can hold three people in place for minutes on end. There is not a consistent rate. Also, in the director’s commentary of V8, they state that Marrow’s aura shield was lowering due to said holding, and that when he was hit by the suicide drone, that is what completely broke his remaining aura.

Adam was hundreds of times stronger than Yang, so her durability was surpassed despite her Aura not breaking.

You’re claiming that his aura is enough to endure the blast. I’m claiming that if it could endure the blast, it doesn’t matter how much he has left, it would endure the blast and he would live.

Durability and Amount are two different things for Aura.

Let’s say your Aura has a durability of 10 hits, and an amount of 100%.

You take an attack equal to 2 hits, and your Aura goes down by 10%. The attack is blocked because your durability is higher, though your amount goes down. Your physical body takes no damage.

But let’s say you have an amount equal to 5%. You get hit by an attack equal to 5 hits. All your Aura goes away (and more), but because your durability is 10 hits, you still don’t take damage. Your Aura is broken, but the attack will still be mostly blocked.

Conversely, someone hits you with something equal to 11 hits. That is higher than your 10 hit durability, so it completely bypasses your Aura and hurts your body.

You are claiming Vine has durability higher than the bomb. If that was the case, even if he had 5% Aura shielding him (which you can’t prove how much his Aura was reduced by), his aura would have broken, but he would have survived. But instead, he died.

 

[Cire]

Ok so you admit you cannot prove that Vine can survive the bomb, which means his physical stats does not scale to the bomb in anyway shape or form. Good job shooting your own argument in the foot.

You absolutely knew that I couldn’t prove that and still haven’t addressed my counter points. Vine can make this construct at anytime using his aura and still live.

 

[Lonkitt]

There is literally no proof that Vine survived this. It very clearly killed him.

I disagree with the OP

 

[Kingofwolves999]

The entire reason why the characters are so strong as they are is because of aura boosting them. It is the crux of the question asked to Miles. The question was if the characters are super human or if aura boosted them, and he answered the latter. He never said they were super human on their own. Heck, this is shown in V2, when Ruby breaks her aura on her fall in Mt Glenn and tries to fight some White Fang goons. She barely does any damage before they easily subdue her. With her aura, she is strong enough to stomp a giant bird into a ship in V3.

Once again ignoring what Miles said. He said UNLOCKING aura gives you a strength boost.

I’m sorry, but they aren’t superhuman without their Aura up?

Nora crushed the Nuckelaeve’s horse head with her hammer when she had no Aura. Try again please.

Again, he states to Jaune to extend his aura, showing that this is a learned trait. And if it is an extension of his aura, that still means that he is generating that level of power within himself and still living. Again, he can make this at any time without dying. And other characters can scale to this level of aura.

Post the clip or say the episode and I’ll see exactly what he says. Even though it’s irrelevant to the overall argument as you can’t prove he can hit as hard as the amount of Aura he has.

 

[Cire]

Adam was hundreds of times stronger than Yang, so her durability was surpassed despite her Aura not breaking.

It was confirmed that Yang’s aura was weakned before fighting Adam.

 

[Kingofwolves999]

It was confirmed that Yang’s aura was weakned before fighting Adam.

That doesn’t matter, he was hundreds of times her strength. He would have one shot her regardless of her aura levels.

 

[Cire]

That doesn’t matter, he was hundreds of times her strength. He would have one shot her regardless of her aura levels.

How was he hundreds of times stronger than her? Blake was able to keep up with him in the past and during Beacon. The only reason why she lost is because she was afraid of him. When they meet again in Haven, Blake punched him once and he went down. Heck, there is not even a statement where she said she trained as well.

 

[Cire]

Again, it’s a constant thing in RWBY that people without their aura are weaker than those with.

 

[Theglassman12]

I knew you couldn’t counter this point because it goes against everything you’re trying to argue for in this thread. Maybe tackle something that doesn’t involve an uphill battle and then some because you might have a better argument with this.

 

[Cire]

There is literally no proof that Vine survived this. It very clearly killed him.

I disagree with the OP

Again, I point to the fact that he can create this powerful construct at anytime and live. Even without the bomb, he can output this level of power.

 

[Lonkitt]

Again, I point to the fact that he can create this powerful construct at anytime and live. Even without the bomb, he can output this level of power.

But he didn't even live. He was killed by the bomb. Ergo, he doesn't scale

 

[Cire]

I knew you couldn’t counter this point because it goes against everything you’re trying to argue for in this thread. Maybe tackle something that doesn’t involve an uphill battle and then some because you might have a better argument with this.

Again, he can make the construct without dying.

 

[KingNanaya]

Again, I point to the fact that he can create this powerful construct at anytime and live.

He in fact died

 

[Cire]

But he didn't even live. He was killed by the bomb. Ergo, he doesn't scale

You don’t understand. He can create something that is durable enough to contain the bomb and live. He can literally do that at any point and he completely fine. If he wanted to bubble a piece of cheese, he could do so.

 

[Lonkitt]

Again, he can make the construct without dying.

But that didn't happen with the bomb. That means he doesn't scale

Your arguments are not going anywhere

 

[Lonkitt]

You don’t understand. He can create something that is durable enough to contain the bomb and live. He can literally do that at any point and he completely fine. If he wanted to bubble a piece of cheese, he could do so.

Cool headcanon. Vine was killed by the explosion and his constructs didn't save him. You're completely ignoring the plot

 

[Cire]

But that didn't happen with the bomb. That means he doesn't scale

Your arguments are not going anywhere

You are not understanding it. He can output that level of power anytime he wants and be just fine. If he was not in the bubble himself, he would have lived.

 

[Cire]

Cool headcanon. Vine was killed by the explosion and his constructs didn't save him. You're completely ignoring the plot

Because he wasn’t protecting himself with the constructs. He was trapping himself inside of it. Again, if he bubbles the bomb and went away from it, he would have lived.

 

[Theglassman12]

And yet the same bomb is a threat to other hunters with aura and are on his level to the point they all resort to evacuation. If this is all you got then I’m just gonna close the thread cause you’re not getting anywhere with this argument