Rule Violations Thread Filler

[SomebodyData]

Its been in my mind for a while, and I've, along others, have stated it as well, but we gotta cut down the unnecessary comments that appear on the thread. The recent discussion alone is absurd in size. I'm not saying we start throwing warnings and blocks at members and staff, but as a sort of general consensus can we add to the op to simply kudo messages that you agree with and the unnecessary comments get deleted?

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Could work, but the issue with this is you'd need to reload the thread to see who agrees with you, and you wouldn't be notified to do so.

 

[Promestein]

You have to reload the thread to do so anyways.

I'm fine with this.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Fully agree with this.

Nothing more needed to be said.

 

[SomebodyData]

That would be understandable, but if you were to look at the current RVT, most unnecessry comments aren't like that. @Monarch

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Could work.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Alright

I'm fine with this.

 

[Bobsican]

What about just moving "off-topic" discussions to the message wal of one of the involved ones? I feel like this could be needed in some cases.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

I'll be honest, though I may be in the minority. I think the "derailment of the RVT" is very overblown as an issue. While excessive detail should be curbed, it is usually quickly taken down and subsequently deleted.

It isn't the end of the world to lose a couple post-spaces to some lightheartedness or context/explanation. I don't think a kind of rule enforcement like this is needed.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that the rule-violation threads should be kept matter-of-fact, and irrelevant posts be deleted. I have to create new ones every few days now.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I actually agree with Assalt.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

I think that the rule-violation threads should be kept matter-of-fact, and irrelevant posts be deleted. I have to create new ones every few days now.

Well it's been 4 days since the current one and though it has had the most banter out of most RVTs it's only about 1/3rd of the way to hitting the cap. A thread every week and a half isn't too awful.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

There honestly needs to be a thread for those discussions though. You can't simply report something and not have someone attempt to defend themselves or others defending their friend. Context is always needed and if we don't allow the other side to speak their case then we'd just be acting in a totalitarian manner if we did act without hearing the other side.

There are already issues of how people perceive the Wiki and that Staff abuse power or cover up things. The whole issue of "delete all comments regarding a report" plays into that beliefe and reinforces the belief that users have of Staff and the Wiki. Denying transparency and context has always been a peeve of mine.

 

[Promestein]

Difference between defending yourself and the meaningless banter and other bullshit that clogs thread.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I agree with this, I too get really annoyed when someone simply says, "I agree with the ban" instead of kudosing the comment. We should obviously delete comments of obvious derailments such as obvious troll posts such as people going "LMAO." But it probably might not be reasonable to remove posts that actually elaborate what people are doing regardless of whether or not it's for a ban.

 

[Antvasima]

You can see from my edits in the link below how often I have to start new rules violations threads. It is turning increasingly more frequent.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/MediaWiki:Welcome-message-wall-user?action=history

 

[SomebodyData]

@Assalt the issue is that out of most of the posts, how many of them are actually relevant? It immediately becomes a waste of time going into the thread every few minutes to make sure everything is alright only to see its generally just some shitpost. Its derailment of one of the arguably most important threads here, and quite honestly people and staff are going to eventually stop checking the thread if they keep seeing how irrelevant it is half the time.

@Imade thats acceptable. If you look at my op the issue is that half of it is either shitpost or unnecessary, no one here has an issue with actually important discussion.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with SomebodyData.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

I agree with the OP and @Imade's suggestions.

 

[Agnaa]

I think we should either have a less official thread that is only linked to in the OPs to cut down on Ant's workload, which is a dedicated thread for discussion about reports.

Another alternative suggestion I've heard is only allowing 1 reply from each member on each report, with the only thing further being a link to a message wall thread to discuss the topic further.

However, I think OP's suggestion of making people kudos rather than comment should be implemented as well.

 

[Andytrenom]

Unless you have something to add to a post, I do believe kudosing it is better than writing a seperate reply just to say you agree

@Agnaa I am not sure about that 1 reply rule tbh. A discussion pertaining to a report will not always be something that can be resolved in a message wall conversation between two parties. So I don't think a rule like that should be enforced

 

[Antvasima]

A 1 reply rule does not seem like a good idea, no.

 

[Agnaa]

The message wall conversation won't have to be between two parties, but I see what you mean. I vastly prefer having a sort of "Rule Violations Discussions" thread.

 

[Antvasima]

To have two rule violation threads running at once would not exactly be easier to manage. People just have to learn to stop making unnecessary posts in important threads.

 

[Agnaa]

I thought the trouble with the unnecessary posts was it made reports drown in unnecessary posts, and make you need to edit the CSS more often.

A discussion thread that's just linked in the OP of the RVT would stop the reports getting drowned, and make you only need to edit the OP, and not multiple sections of site CSS, every time you need a new thread.

 

[Antvasima]

It would still need oversight and be constantly restarted. I am not sure how it would practically help.

 

[Agnaa]

If the issue isn't replacing the links to the thread and reports getting drowned out, but rather the oversight needed for the posts, then you're right that it wouldn't help.

Just OP's suggestion seems like the best that could be done, perhaps with some encouragement to take discussions to message walls when possible.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I honestly agree with Imades suggestion too as well as Somebody's.

I believe for RVT's it should be only report worthy. While there is a separate thread for discussing the play-by-play events that transpires from the report.

The RVT includes a link to that thread so that way when making a report, if its something that needs discussion, you go to the discussion thread and discuss. Anything simple that can be done immediatetely will be easily taken care of on the spot.

 

[Sera_EX]

Thing is Ant, you don't always have to be the one to make the new threads. All a discussion mod or administrator would have to do is copy the source of the previous OP, make a new thread and highlight it. It's super easy and should take only 15 seconds. So I don't think having to make the threads should be used in this discussion as an argument in favor of more RV restriction. It has the easiest solution.

That being said, while I agree with Assalt, I do think Somebody's and I Made's suggestions aren't bad. I just wouldn't make kudos mandatory because the kudos system is known to bug out sometimes, leaving some incapable of giving kudos.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, it is a bit more complicated than that.

A link to the previous thread has to be submitted in the first post of the new thread.

A link to the new thread has to be submitted in the last post of the old thread.

The old thread has to be closed with a link to the new thread.

The front page link has to be updated.

The wiki navigation bar link has to be updated.

The link in the public welcome message for new members has to be updated.

 

[Antvasima]

That said, it is probably not necessary to continue to highlight the wiki maintenance threads after the old ones reach around 400 posts and have to be closed.

 

[Ogurtsow]

I have a brainstorm regarding this topic.

Administators and above are able to edit other people's posts. It would be better if they directly edit the reporters' posts: those threads wouldn't have been overcrowded so fast if we had moved to such way. For example, when an admin agreed with blocking a user, he can simply edit the reporter's post by adding a line (by typing 4 "-"s in a row ) to divide his/her own part of the message from the reporter's one, writing the corresponding comment, and adding his/her own signature (by typing 4 tildes in a row).

P.S. The following is just a sketch for it. Don't take it too seriously.

 

[Sera_EX]

I like Ogurtsow's idea.

 

[Antvasima]

Isn't it better to just mention it in separate posts as we do now? I doubt that our administrators will remember to exactly follow such a procedure.

 

[Ogurtsow]

No, especially when a certain report is ambiguous. Furthermore, several admins and bureacrauts can discuss a block in a single post. Just don't forget to use borderlines and signatures.

 

[Antvasima]

That seems impractical, given that we won't receive any update notifications, and will likely edit the same posts at the same time.

 

[SomebodyData]

Yeah, that does seem rather hard to implement effectively.

@Assalt, Sera, and Matt: Do you guys have any issue with the change? Like I said, this isn't as much of a rule as it is a guideline (Which it seems you guys misinterperted)

 

[Sera_EX]

Not at all. Sounds good.

 

[Kepekley23]

Why don't we instead make a general discussion for the Rule Violation Reports so people can go and derail to hell on that thread instead?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Well, that would seem excessive, plus there'd be like way too many posts to read and analyze. People could make like a fun and games board for something like that, but strongly against the main RVR thread being a general discussion.