Rule Violation Reports (New forum)

[Astral_Trinity439]

The actual deplorable part of this report which is so blatant I don’t see any justification or excuse is the manipulation. Now I’m going to be blunt here. Alex, the reason you don’t want it to appear as powerscaling related is so you can conveniently escape further scrutiny and consequences. This still falls under manipulation since you’re fixing the word of what initially is powerscaling related into something that isn’t entirely powerscaling. Key word “entirely” there’s still elements of powerscaling embedded in these leading questions which you’re trying to turn subtle, miniature and less suspecting. If your questions or concerns really had nothing to do with powerscaling there would be no reason to make such a comment. In fact, it would make more sense had you not made any comments or taken any action of altering wording. Leading questions which lead to WOG have always been portrayed as bad. This is no exception and I find it hard to believe you wouldn’t know that. I’m sure you knew which is what gave you the idea to make countermeasures. Putting attention on “look” doesn’t make things look great either. Why would you emphasise that?

I would like to once again point out that
People have a life outside vsbw

Like c'mon dude, are we gonna restrict freedom of speech when a user isn't using whatever they do with their free time and free will on vsbw?
NO. Is it bad ethically? Eh, varies between opinions. Does vsbw give a thing? NO.
I would like to quote plank from earlier

If they're not being used nor is there an attempt at making use of them on site, then no. It is many things but it isn't any of our concern how someone interacts with an author fully offsite.

This is like reporting someone to the police for doing something in his own house using his own resources, time and will that has nothing to do with you personally nor their activities on vsbw. Lets go and report someone for not cutting a water melon properly as "they plan to plant a gernade inside!"

I’m also not going to let one or a few parts of the report get cherrypicked either. We concluded it’s jokes, memes and having fun so we can gloss past this no? It wasn’t even the main discussion. Not even close.

Quite funny. Let's not forget who was specifically painting me in a bad light. Like let's not forget our own words??

While minor I would also like to clarify that these specific users even went as far as using some form of translation tool to ask these leading questions. Why do I mention this, it’s because it comes across as desperate and deliberate. I don’t want these people who’d eventually and inevitably have to reply to alter their intent just because it’s being called out. @Astral_Trinity439 verbatim mentions how there're three other people and if I had to guess NOT once did any of those people including Astral himself think their actions were atrocious that would follow up with consequences. If they are to be given punishment I believe they should all face equal punishment.

Using terms like "atrocious" and "I don't want these people" in the beginning and then when someone points out they aren't reporworthy you quickly try to change the topic to something that someone said could be report worthy is... Suspicious, and definitely not something that was said with good intentions. But alas, that is a personal opinion of mine and the mods are to judge.

The issue here is the fact that multiple users within that screenshot and even contributing in this very report have been caught doing things they shouldn’t have done. I’m certain all of you who partake in this group activity knew this wasn’t right either, pertaining to Zane’s Alex’s comment. What is there to get away with? So what I also don’t understand is that if you had even the slightest bit of guilty conscience, worries or hesitation why would you not consult staff? Any staff who’s well versed on WOG and leading questions would have given you a reliable and credible answer. I really don’t understand why doing the logical thing wasn’t thought of before even deciding to take action but if I’m wrong on that regard you can feel free to correct me. Please don't try to dismiss this as offsite behaviour. If that’s what you’re really trying to do then there would serve many contradictions and questions that I’m not even sure would be dismissible.

Every bit of this paragraph is a violation of a user's personal space, their free time off vsbw, freedom of speech and so much more....

 

[Planck69]

I mean, if they are framed in such a way that they don't appear to be powerscaling questions then we can never guess if they were leading/powerscaling questions. And the intentions here looks highly suspicious to me if anything.

I mean yes, that is distasteful but until we see a thread happen with said "WoG" scans then this isn't actionable.

This isn't me saying that such WoG is valid, this is very much damning evidence against it and them but until that thread happens then no on-site rule has been broken yet.

 

[AlexSamDen]

My WiFi is horrible right now so I’m unable to make constantly make replies back so I’ll do the best I can. The downgrading and pettiness part isn’t exactly important it’s why there’s less emphasis on that side. The actual deplorable part of this report which is so blatant I don’t see any justification or excuse is the manipulation. Now I’m going to be blunt here. Alex, the reason you don’t want it to appear as powerscaling related is so you can conveniently escape further scrutiny and consequences. This still falls under manipulation since you’re fixing the word of what initially is powerscaling related into something that isn’t entirely powerscaling. Key word “entirely” there’s still elements of powerscaling embedded in these leading questions which you’re trying to turn subtle, miniature and less suspecting. If your questions or concerns really had nothing to do with powerscaling there would be no reason to make such a comment. In fact, it would make more sense had you not made any comments or taken any action of altering wording. Leading questions which lead to WOG have always been portrayed as bad. This is no exception and I find it hard to believe you wouldn’t know that. I’m sure you knew which is what gave you the idea to make countermeasures. Putting attention on “look” doesn’t make things look great either. Why would you emphasise that?

I mean, if they are framed in such a way that they don't appear to be powerscaling questions then we can never guess if they were leading/powerscaling questions. And the intentions here looks highly suspicious to me if anything.

This is basically a reply to both of these sections:
You see a single comment, without additional context and draw a single conclusion not accounting even for a possibility of a different meaning

You may not notice it yourself, but, frankly, the vocabulary of every single long-term member of the wiki us pretty much completely skewered

When talking about complex topics you often unintentionally use jargon that you learned on this or other wikis - something that a person uninvolved with powerscaling may not even understand. This is simply a habit you picked up from talking in a circle of people who understand you

And that exact problem plagued those other attempts at a question (might I say, 90% of which weren't even asked) that people tried asking: they were interested in complex topics (since simple ones don't really need explanation) and used some specific powerscaling jargon, exactly what I referred to as "powerscaling sh*t"

Thus, for Fuse to actually properly answer their concerns, I offered my services to simplify their messages and fix them. Not twist, not anything in that sense - fix


I think you're seeing conspiracy where you shouldn't. Especially since this is like, 3+ months old with 0 attempts at implementation

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

I am not entirely sure what you mean by the claim that. It essentially looks like:

'We are framing our questions to look like they aren't about powerscaling, so we can manipulate authors into giving the answers we seek for use on another wiki, not VSBW.'

And? I rarely have any personal beef with anyone here, Reiner, but there's one thing I ought to make clear

Whatever we do off site, as long as it doesn't have to do with vsbw or directly harmful to a user of this wiki, the wiki has no right to hold anything accountable without evidence. Speculations are free to he thrown out the window

Once again whatever we do on our free time is our privacy, and as long as it's not violating vsbw rules, it cannot be held accountable for a report on this wiki.

On the other hand, I would assume a different perspective to try and answer your question:

People debate outside vsbw. They debate on discord, YouTube, TikTok, reddit, and the list goes on and on. Now, some people seek validation of whatever they're claiming personally. So they ask their author questions, which sometimes may be leading in certain directions. Like asking "is X outerversal?", of course that would be spotted in a debate. So asking indirect questions and hoping maybe the author loves explaining things and you get a good enough answer still, isn't wrong per say.

Again, this isn't the same if the QnA was used on vsbw. But is it? A big NO.

Plus what Alex said above

Which wiki are you referring to that has such strict rules against powerscaling questions that you must go to these lengths to frame them as 'non-leading'?

I utilize my right to remain silent as this has nothing to do with vsbw.

Whether other wikis allow WOG statements is irrelevant here. How can we trust that someone who is being dishonest on some other wiki and is being genuine here regarding the use of WOG?

I never said that, tho? I said some wikis simply allow wog in any form, even if it's clearly a leading question.

The members involved in manipulating these author statements are part of our community,

And you have no evidence for the "our" part so refrain from saying that, please. Like, it's been 2~3 months since that msg and no one has done anything related to that msg on wiki.

So "assuming" that the intention was bad and was specifically targeted for vsbw is, least to say, biased.

I see no reason to believe they would only use these tactics on some mystery wiki while remaining perfectly honest here. Hitchens's Razor applies to claims that have no basis, however, given the circumstances and the specific wording of these offsite comment, I highly doubt that is the case here.

This is a highly personal belief, so I ultimately leave this for other staff to judge. And I believe Plank said my mind out aloud perfectly.

 

[Gamin_Yoon23]

I would like to once again point out that
People have a life outside vsbw

Like c'mon dude, are we gonna restrict freedom of speech when a user isn't using whatever they do with their free time and free will on vsbw?
NO. Is it bad ethically? Eh, varies between opinions. Does vsbw give a thing? NO.
I would like to quote plank from earlier


This is like reporting someone to the police for doing something in his own house using his own resources, time and will that has nothing to do with you personally nor their activities on vsbw. Lets go and report someone for not cutting a water melon properly as "they plan to plant a gernade inside!"

Quite funny. Let's not forget who was specifically painting me in a bad light. Like let's not forget our own words??


Using terms like "atrocious" and "I don't want these people" in the beginning and then when someone points out they aren't reporworthy you quickly try to change the topic to something that someone said could be report worthy is... Suspicious, and definitely not something that was said with good intentions. But alas, that is a personal opinion of mine and the mods are to judge.

Every bit of this paragraph is a violation of a user's personal space, their free time off vsbw, freedom of speech and so much more....

Not necessarily suspicious or changing the topic if the topic was already out in the open. What I had an issue with is cherrypicking. Cherrypicking is a deliberate method used to avoid having to take accountability or tackle what’s actually important. It has been used various times and since VBW itself is a website made for powerscalers I’m sure you could easily figure out why it’s used or at the very least exists. I should also add that I actually had issues with that part of the report and dialled back and even asked for non staff feedback on whether or not it was plausible and they all agreed I should remove it. It was my fault it wasn’t removed and I can assure you I had plans to remove it to, I made numerous edits to my report since I saw it as incomplete and even now I would say it’s incomplete as I didn’t follow up with my thoughts and other’s insight and input so that’s on me.

I also don’t necessarily mind if I’m reported for such. That would be fine and wouldn’t bother me as much and of course I’d be subject to apologising but not fully since my idea contradicts some of my report. There have also been other screenshots which I currently do hold which show go surpass the “it’s just jokes bro gauge” but I refuse to let this get washed up so I’ll leave that for some other time if it’s necessary to mention. You do realise that even if any action has been taken as in you haven’t used these answers from fuse as material it doesn’t take away from the fact you still had some questionable ideas and methods for individual gain. As Planck said, it’s damning evidence and even if you’re innocent I feel as though it’s generous to even say so but that’s just my opinion. As I told the people who I reached out to, I’m not looking for anyone to be banned. That’s a reach. Maybe an official strict or unofficial warning? Sure. I don’t see why it’s fair for Fuse or any other contributor of any franchise to have to answer PS related questions or fall victim to manipulation. It’s even worse that he isn’t even aware.

If anything all this does is make people more wary which isn’t a bad thing since it wouldn’t be the first time something severe has happened concerning this Verse. I do believe this needs utmost inspection and I haven’t been following Tensura but I’m sure that’s the case and should reasonably be if not.

 

[Ultimuru]

There have also been other screenshots which I currently do hold which show go surpass the “it’s just jokes bro gauge” but I refuse to let this get washed up so I’ll leave that for some other time if it’s necessary to mention.

Ngl that's creepy bro. So we now are even moderated outside of VSBW?

 

[Mizuki67]

Yall shouldnt have invited random people in your discord server lol

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Not necessarily suspicious or changing the topic if the topic was already out in the open.

I'm very sure I was clear with what I said here. I think you're shifting the topic from how you originally assumed me in bad faith (a.k.a., that I had bad intentions) and very clearly said how you don't want me here and how I should be punished, to now trying to avert the attention to Alex since that part of your report turned out to be a fail.

I would raise the doubt of bad faith from the opposition (you) here, and I will let the staff be the judge.

I should also add that I actually had issues with that part of the report and dialled back and even asked for non staff feedback on whether or not it was plausible and they all agreed I should remove it. It was my fault it wasn’t removed and I can assure you I had plans to remove it to, I made numerous edits to my report since I saw it as incomplete and even now I would say it’s incomplete as I didn’t follow up with my thoughts and other’s insight and input so that’s on me.

If the report is incomplete especially when you are throwing such allegations (that I pointed above) at different users, at the very least you should make it complete to avoid misunderstanding.

Anyways, there is nothing useful in using something that is as old as my very first msg on vsbw. If you wanted to make a report of it, you could have at least researched in the members about their active date and the date of the msg you're reporting...

. There have also been other screenshots which I currently do hold which show go surpass the “it’s just jokes bro gauge” but I refuse to let this get washed up so I’ll leave that for some other time if it’s necessary to mention.

Whatever you say buddy.

Also I would like to once again say; that server is specifically for tensura fans. And even then no one is forced to join it. I wouldn't stoop so low as to use messages from a private server on a report about "I find this msg in this server offensive".

You do realise that even if any action has been taken as in you haven’t used these answers from fuse as material it doesn’t take away from the fact you still had some questionable ideas and methods for individual gain.

"Questionable ideas" are a heavily belief-filled claim, I must say. Do you have proof that I used this on vsbw? Or that I had intention of using it on vsbw?

No. So how about we stop with this act and acknowledge that people have personal lives and interests outside vsbw?

As Planck said, it’s damning evidence and even if you’re innocent I feel as though it’s generous to even say so but that’s just my opinion. As I told the people who I reached out to, I’m not looking for anyone to be banned. That’s a reach. Maybe an official strict or unofficial warning? Sure. I don’t see why it’s fair for Fuse or any other contributor of any franchise to have to answer PS related questions or fall victim to manipulation. It’s even worse that he isn’t even aware.

Holy appeal to belief bro

 

[Antvasima]

i promise to log out. you wont see me on anything non re zero related (since thats what iv noticed the og owner does). ill be logging out from this message hence forth since i dont want to ruin anything for og crimsonobu. adios

@AKM sama

What do you think that we should do regarding this?

 

[AmonInChains]

Yall shouldnt have invited random people in your server lol

Still? Wdym? No one here has the right to threaten and control our behavior off-site.

I agree with Planck's opinion that we should keep an eye out for possible abuse of WoG in verse (Heck I myself made one of the posts being mentioned). But don't try to make this some Big Brother type shit.

 

[AKM sama]

@AKM sama

What do you think that we should do regarding this?

Like I said, there is no way to be certain about it. I think we should go ahead with the ban, sadly. Even if they logout, they can always login without us knowing. I don't see any other way on this.

 

[Antvasima]

So, a 1 year ban for both accounts then? Or are 6 months sufficient?

 

[Ebihara]

If they're not being used nor is there an attempt at making use of them on site, then no. It is many things but it isn't any of our concern how someone interacts with an author fully offsite.

" Do not contact or ask battleboarding questions to the authors of various works on social media, especially not in a manner that pesters or harasses them." From off site rules.

We arent supposed to ask authors battleboarding questions at all. There are good reasons for this.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Snip

Ah, I would also like to point out something and based on that fact, report @Gamin_Yoon23 for using a sock puppet

The thing is, the server setting is such that anyone without "members" role isn't allowed to even see any msg from the server.

And what's the way to get "members" role? You need to get verified! And by verified u mean you need to show your vsbw account pic such that there's an "edit" option in the picture. The only exceptions to this are those I personally know for years and they just so happen to still not use vsbw.

Yet @Gamin_Yoon23 can apparently see the messages and take screenshots, DESPITE the fact that there is no "gamin Yoon" in the verified member log. I also checked my dms in case maybe he confirms it there but NOPE

Which can only mean he's one of people who verified but with a sock puppet, which is a direct violation of rules (having sock puppets) on-site..

I can send SS of all the confirmed users to figure out who's the sock puppet, however, I will only do so in a private DM on forum with staff so as to not reveal the server's users' privacy.

Editing 20 min after the report: I realized my interpretation had some flaws, like how he could have gotten those messages while slipping out of the verification via appeal to "I'll do it later" or using third party vendors (like vencord), but I believe this still holds some merrit and makes the method of getting the evidence questionable

 

[AKM sama]

So, a 1 year ban for both accounts then? Or are 6 months sufficient?

I think 1 year but I am fine with whatever the others decide.

 

[Reiner04]

" Do not contact or ask battleboarding questions to the authors of various works on social media, especially not in a manner that pesters or harasses them." From off site rules.

We arent supposed to ask authors battleboarding questions at all. There are good reasons for this.

Going by the current wording, it is indeed a rule violation to ask authors 'battle-boarding' questions. However, I believe this should not include instances where such WOGs are unrelated to VSBW and intended for use elsewhere. I think it might be a wording issue in the current rule. While I find these activities highly suspicious, in the absence of concrete evidence linking them to VSBW, I don't believe any action needs to be taken at this time. But just incase to clarify the intent of the rules, I will ping Finepoint, as they were involved in the recent WOG rule updates @FinePoint

 

[Planck69]

" Do not contact or ask battleboarding questions to the authors of various works on social media, especially not in a manner that pesters or harasses them." From off site rules.

We arent supposed to ask authors battleboarding questions at all. There are good reasons for this.

Yes, in the sense of using whatever answers you scrounge together here. Do you actually, genuinely think we have any authority over the act of talking to authors itself?

Any such use of them on our site can and should be acted upon. But no user on this site owes "sole loyalty" or whatever to vs wiki. If they use those answers elsewhere, that's between them and that other site.

 

[Mizuki67]

Still? Wdym? No one here has the right to threaten and control our behavior off-site.

I agree with Planck's opinion that we should keep an eye out for possible abuse of WoG in verse (Heck I myself made one of the posts being mentioned). But don't try to make this some Big Brother type shit.

The evidence given here are just discord msgs mix with random screenshots which does not correlate to each other. This feels like talking to Mizkif again

 

[Zanesucksatlife]

Ah, I would also like to point out something and based on that fact, report @Gamin_Yoon23 for using a sock puppet

The thing is, the server setting is such that anyone without "members" role isn't allowed to even see any msg from the server.

And what's the way to get "members" role? You need to get verified! And by verified u mean you need to show your vsbw account pic such that there's an "edit" option in the picture. The only exceptions to this are those I personally know for years and they just so happen to still not use vsbw.

Yet @Gamin_Yoon23 can apparently see the messages and take screenshots, DESPITE the fact that there is no "gamin Yoon" in the verified member log. I also checked my dms in case maybe he confirms it there but NOPE

Which can only mean he's one of people who verified but with a sock puppet, which is a direct violation of rules (having sock puppets) on-site..

I can send SS of all the confirmed users to figure out who's the sock puppet, however, I will only do so in a private DM on forum with staff so as to not reveal the server's users' privacy.

Adding on to Astrals original report
Id like to add this
There have also been other screenshots which I currently do hold which show go surpass the “it’s just jokes bro gauge” but I refuse to let this get washed up so I’ll leave that for some other time if it’s necessary to mention.
Admitting to privacy violation.
I don't feel comfortable ngl and I feel like I'm being stalked.

 

[Ultimuru]

Adding on to Astrals original report
Id like to add this
There have also been other screenshots which I currently do hold which show go surpass the “it’s just jokes bro gauge” but I refuse to let this get washed up so I’ll leave that for some other time if it’s necessary to mention.
Admitting to privacy violation.
I don't feel comfortable ngl and I feel like I'm being stalked.

To be honest me too. We are now supposed to watch every word even in a private server among friends because someone may be taking screenshots and reporting us on other sites? I am nor really feeling comfortable anymore at all.

 

[Zanesucksatlife]

To be honest me too. We are now supposed to watch every word even in a private server among friends because someone may be taking screenshots and reporting us on other sites? I am nor really feeling comfortable anymore at all.

Same
I feel very uncomfortable ngl knowing someone is stalking me and reporting me over jokes. Yes those out of context screenshots were jokes. I use "" sometimes when I'm joking or I will say stuff in a joking way ↓

Snip

Snip

Snip

So anyways.
Can anything be looked at or done?
This is a serious breach of privacy and it's unsettling knowing someone has stuff on you.
1. False accusations + sending stuff taken out of context.
I also want to report for that too
Not too mention the privacy violation you see right here. ↓

Right, before I get into the reason of my report I would like to list out all the following people I know of who were involved in this situation and series of screenshots.

@Zanesucksatlife @Ferno1234 @Astral_Trinity439 @Astral_void4 Veldanava (?) @AlexSamDen


It has come to my attention that a few Tensura supporters have been asking leading questions on powerscaling matters which are entirely against the rules. As Powerscalers we should know better than to pester, bother and use authors or novelists for the sole reason of inflating said franchise. Here are some examples that hold up, “Banning WOG from Ninjago” “Removing WOG from Ben 10” “Ben 10: Cleansing of WOG part 1.” These Content Revision Threads were made due to the fact that WOG was caused by leading questions which aren’t allowed in the slightest. In case anyone would like to fact check, mostly staff here’s the link and here. It requires scrolling down and a MTL to translate.

While minor I would also like to clarify that these specific users even went as far as using some form of translation tool to ask these leading questions. Why do I mention this, it’s because it comes across as desperate and deliberate. I don’t want these people who’d eventually and inevitably have to reply to alter their intent just because it’s being called out. @Astral_Trinity439 verbatim mentions how there're three other people and if I had to guess NOT once did any of those people including Astral himself think their actions were atrocious that would follow up with consequences. If they are to be given punishment I believe they should all face equal punishment.

This section is dedicated to the following shown in the screenshot, @Zanesucksatlife, @Ferno1234, @AlexSamDen and I’m unsure of who Tatsumaki is by I hope we find out soon. I’m also unsure of who “Astral (Ciel’s GPT)” is but we have a few options. It’s either @Astral_Trinity439 himself, @Astral_void4 or it’s likely a MTL discord bot. Onto the main topic of discussion, firstly I would like to start of with Zane’s lack of shamelessness with his comment. Not much to say here other than questionable. If he really found faults in this behaviour he would have reported it yet chose not to. Instead he entertained the idea knowing it was wrong but that didn’t change his mind. Tatsumaki, openly admitting to asking a leading question involving MWI and even directly citing his own words. Ferno, who just like Zane was entertaining the idea of leading questions here. I also take back what I said on Astral Ciel’s GPT. It can’t be a bot, under this context it has to 100% be a user. Not sure who this is but another leading question. Here’s Alex’s part which needs no explanation at all. For context “Fuse” is the writer of Tensura.

In the time that I had I wasn’t able to find out who this comment was from specifically but I imagine they’re apart of the Tensura discord server or even acquainted to Astral and the other following members.

I would also like to specifically tell @Zanesucksatlife and everyone else apart of the Tensura server to not act childish. Targeting other Verses purely because you have resentment for it shouldn’t be the main reason why you deliver downgrades. Downgrades should be chosen if you fully believe that reasoning for said ability, tier or any other aspect is full of flaws. One Verse’ loss isn’t something to brag about or be ecstatic about. This is quite minor and I don’t think it warrants any disciplinary action but the screenshots I hold and saw came across as very petty.

Before I conclude this report I would like to ask onsite Tensura supporters who were involved in this situation to offer contribution and to assist us in who some of these users are shown in the screenshots and possibly the link I sent in my first paragraph (minus the introduction). Failure or refusal to do so would only lead to a more dragged out investigation.

With that said I’m finished here. I’ll only reply when I need to. I should also note that I was going to hold off on this report but figured that it would be redundant as this is a very serious issue that needs to be let out. I also believe that I have reached out to an adequate amount of staff for me to have the green light which is what finalised my decision to release this. Thank you to all the staff who gave me advice on what to do.

Violation of privacy ^

 

[TWILIGHT-OP]

Alright, enough... no more further post. Let the staff handle it from now on.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

So, a 1 year ban for both accounts then? Or are 6 months sufficient?

I would go with 1 year myself. Mostly because the entire situation started because both users got agitated, but they definitely went too far with the insults.

Then the knowledge of the potential sockpuppet turns this to something worse.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I mean yes, that is distasteful but until we see a thread happen with said "WoG" scans then this isn't actionable.

This isn't me saying that such WoG is valid, this is very much damning evidence against it and them but until that thread happens then no on-site rule has been broken yet.

Damn effing straight.

However I will also add now, thanks to the knowledge of this issue, any and all WoG for tensura should be straight up banned. We cannot trust any of them now. But this should be talked about in a more dedicated thread.

As for the rest of the report, I do not care what people do in their own private servers as long as it doesn't start affecting our forums.

 

[Ebihara]

Yes, in the sense of using whatever answers you scrounge together here. Do you actually, genuinely think we have any authority over the act of talking to authors itself?

Any such use of them on our site can and should be acted upon. But no user on this site owes "sole loyalty" or whatever to vs wiki. If they use those answers elsewhere, that's between them and that other site.

last thing ill say not to clog the thread. Obviously not lol and I dont think my meassge implied as such. But you can punish people for offsite behavior (dont really have a take on this case) and thats how the rule is written not that it only shouldnt be used but we shouldnt ask power scaling questions. so maybe that should be adjusted.

 

[Reiner04]

I think extent of ban or which timeline's WOG should be allowed must be dealt in its own thread, but given this issue, it has to be dealt. Yeah.

 

[Ciel_Trinity439]

I will create a CRT about this matter soon, so stay tuned

 

[Eseseso]

Type Moon Revival CRT relating high tiers and a few current relevant profiles - Part 1

That shit is like 18.4 K words. That is a fully fledged short story for just a CRT, removing the fact you have to check links and the TLs in said links. I want some of whatever you're smoking. Yeah, I didn't deserve this, but I see your point.

vsbattles.com

Despite only having 2 messages, this apparently new account is oddly familiar with our rules, terminology, and tier 1 requirements.

I think they might be a sockpuppet.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I think this all comes off as very damning. Harassing authors about powerscaling at all is against the rules, and I think extra condemnation can be extended for very obvious intent displayed by some of these posts. Manipulating it so it doesn't come off as powerscaling-esque seems to imply further intent to use these questions in CRTs, regardless of whether they were used at all, and certainly seems actively malicious. I disagree with the interpretations of Planck, in this regard.

It's my belief that a warning should be given to relevant parties, and at the very least @AlexSamDen is deserving of a brief ban. The implications of his actions are, in my opinion, impossible to benevolently interpret. We cannot say for certain that everyone on that server was so aligned to manipulate the context to bypass VSBW's rulings regarding WoG, mostly they were asking powerscaling adjacent questions that may or may not have been malevolently used. Alex's actions give me no doubt as to his intentions, at least.

I would also agree with Lephyr that given how many users contributed to this, and the extent of the planning around this to potentially obfuscate all context, I believe a verse rule should be implemented for Tensura outright banning the use of WoG. Someday, it seems to me we ought to simply ban the use of WoG at all, given how often it becomes such an extreme problem, how often users are tempted to abuse the goodwill of the authors producing various works for the sake of making characters stronger. For now, it is apparent to me that Tensura is in desperate need of it.

These are my full thoughts.

 

[Gamin_Yoon23]

I wont be responding to any more comments since we’re waiting for staff at this point and I realise that Astral caught onto a flaw with the paragraphs he has sent but if suspicion remains on how I could be a sock puppet I wouldn’t be against having to do a test to prove otherwise. Just for safety precautions and formal reasons. I’m not sure how it’s done since this is a first so I would need a walkthrough.

 

[Ciel_Trinity439]

I think this all comes off as very damning. Harassing authors about powerscaling at all is against the rules, and I think extra condemnation can be extended for very obvious intent displayed by some of these posts. Manipulating it so it doesn't come off as powerscaling-esque seems to imply further intent to use these questions in CRTs, regardless of whether they were used at all, and certainly seems actively malicious. I disagree with the interpretations of Planck, in this regard.

It's my belief that a warning should be given to relevant parties, and at the very least @AlexSamDen is deserving of a brief ban. The implications of his actions are, in my opinion, impossible to benevolently interpret. We cannot say for certain that everyone on that server was so aligned to manipulate the context to bypass VSBW's rulings regarding WoG, mostly they were asking powerscaling adjacent questions that may or may not have been malevolently used. Alex's actions give me no doubt as to his intentions, at least.

I would also agree with Lephyr that given how many users contributed to this, and the extent of the planning around this to potentially obfuscate all context, I believe a verse rule should be implemented for Tensura outright banning the use of WoG. Someday, it seems to me we ought to simply ban the use of WoG at all, given how often it becomes such an extreme problem, how often users are tempted to abuse the goodwill of the authors producing various works for the sake of making characters stronger. For now, it is apparent to me that Tensura is in desperate need of it.

These are my full thoughts.

First, we did not use that and will not use it, but we do use the author’s comments from 2013/2014 and so on.

They have nothing to do with increasing power or anything like that; they are simply the author’s replies to the novel’s readers. After a volume is released, readers come and ask about things related to that volume, and the author answers.

Regarding Alex, in my opinion, it is ridiculous to say that this cannot be interpreted in good faith, while more than one person here has explained that the author of Tensura himself does not respond to comments related to power, but only answers questions about the story and such. If you do not believe that, you can ask any Tensura fan here about it, and that is the basis of what Alex said.

It is also, in my opinion, unreasonable to impose a rule banning the use of the author’s statements when you do not have a valid reason, and are simply rushing to judgment and misunderstanding what is happening here. I do not blame you in general.

I will create a thread about allowing the use of the author’s statements for Tensura this week, so you can come there and discuss this matter, as I will explain everything there.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

First, we did not use that and will not use it, but we do use the author’s comments from 2013/2014 and so on.

They have nothing to do with increasing power or anything like that; they are simply the author’s replies to the novel’s readers. After a volume is released, readers come and ask about things related to that volume, and the author answers.

Regarding Alex, in my opinion, it is ridiculous to say that this cannot be interpreted in good faith, while more than one person here has explained that the author of Tensura himself does not respond to comments related to power, but only answers questions about the story and such. If you do not believe that, you can ask any Tensura fan here about it, and that is the basis of what Alex said.

It is also, in my opinion, unreasonable to impose a rule banning the use of the author’s statements when you do not have a valid reason, and are simply rushing to judgment and misunderstanding what is happening here. I do not blame you in general.

I will create a thread about allowing the use of the author’s statements for Tensura this week, so you can come there and discuss this matter, as I will explain everything there.

Would you say that manipulating an author to answer questions he does not want to answer, which is explicitly against our rules, classifies as "good faith"? I would not. Alex's comments are absolutely and strongly against our rules, no matter which way you slice it, and strongly so. These are rules that have been enshrined for a vast span of time, these are things everyone ought to be generally familiar with.

I would not expect you to agree with the banning. It is your actions and the actions of others that we are banning. For my part, I do not blame you for playing your role in that, either. But it is unreasonable to leave a verse so obviously open to abuse when we do not need to do so. WoG in general is a dicey, questionable subject, and it is my opinion that it takes very little tampering to get it gone. This is more than a little tampering.

 

[Ciel_Trinity439]

Would you say that manipulating an author to answer questions he does not want to answer, which is explicitly against our rules, classifies as "good faith"? I would not. Alex's comments are absolutely and strongly against our rules, no matter which way you slice it, and strongly so. These are rules that have been enshrined for a vast span of time, these are things everyone ought to be generally familiar with.

I would not expect you to agree with the banning. It is your actions and the actions of others that we are banning. For my part, I do not blame you for playing your role in that, either. But it is unreasonable to leave a verse so obviously open to abuse when we do not need to do so. WoG in general is a dicey, questionable subject, and it is my opinion that it takes very little tampering to get it gone. This is more than a little tampering.

Yes, keep ignoring what I’m saying and forcing your opinion while not even understanding what is being said here. Well done keep it up.

I expect you to come and discuss this when I create a CRT about what is acceptable and what is not regarding the use of the author's statements for Tensura, not to come in and say “we should make a rule banning the use of author statements” without being aware of what’s actually happening here and there.

As I said, let’s end this discussion here. I will create a thread soon.

And regarding Alex, I do not accept his ban—this is literally unjust. Read what I said earlier about this, and read what others have said as well.

 

[Gamin_Yoon23]

Yes, keep ignoring what I’m saying and forcing your opinion while not even understanding what is being said here. Well done keep it up.

I expect you to come and discuss this when I create a CRT about what is acceptable and what is not regarding the use of the author's statements for Tensura, not to come in and say “we should make a rule banning the use of author statements” without being aware of what’s actually happening here and there.

As I said, let’s end this discussion here. I will create a thread soon.

And regarding Alex, I do not accept his ban—this is literally unjust. Read what I said earlier about this, and read what others have said as well.

Hello? That first comment is unneeded and uncalled for. Bambu was being respectful and only offering his piece of his opinion. There’s no need for that.

The discussion can’t end here since we’re essentially waiting for more input. You can’t just tell a bureaucrat what to do. If you’re attempting to which it’s clear you are, you could’ve at least negotiated but it’s clear you’re imposing orders. I mean the negotiation can still follow through in this supposed CRT you plan to make but would it not be easier to discuss it here and now? It’s already a big deal and there’s no reason to brush it off. Not even temporarily.

I’m certain Bambu already knows this since he gave you a full fledged answer in his second paragraph. There’s no need to repeat this and to be frank, what you feel is unjust isn’t necessarily going to do much at this point. I’m not saying you can’t find things unfair, that’s totally fine but the supporters on your end agreed to let staff have precedence on this matter as of now. This back and forth isn’t going to get you anywhere. Let staff assess.

 

[Ciel_Trinity439]

Hello? That first comment is unneeded and uncalled for. Bambu was being respectful and only offering his piece of his opinion. There’s no need for that.

The discussion can’t end here since we’re essentially waiting for more input. You can’t just tell a bureaucrat what to do. If you’re attempting to which it’s clear you are, you could’ve at least negotiated but it’s clear you’re imposing orders. I mean the negotiation can still follow through in this supposed CRT you plan to make but would it not be easier to discuss it here and now? It’s already a big deal and there’s no reason to brush it off. Not even temporarily.

I’m certain Bambu already knows this since he gave you a full fledged answer in his second paragraph. There’s no need to repeat this and to be frank, what you feel is unjust isn’t necessarily going to do much at this point. I’m not saying you can’t find things unfair, that’s totally fine but the supporters on your end agreed to let staff have precedence on this matter as of now. This back and forth isn’t going to get you anywhere. Let staff assess.

My words are clear

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Yes, keep ignoring what I’m saying and forcing your opinion while not even understanding what is being said here. Well done keep it up.

I expect you to come and discuss this when I create a CRT about what is acceptable and what is not regarding the use of the author's statements for Tensura, not to come in and say “we should make a rule banning the use of author statements” without being aware of what’s actually happening here and there.

As I said, let’s end this discussion here. I will create a thread soon.

And regarding Alex, I do not accept his ban—this is literally unjust. Read what I said earlier about this, and read what others have said as well.

I have read it. I don't even blame you for being upset-- you are the ones on trial here, I am not unaccustomed to those on trial lashing out when angry. That said, do not continue this. The thread is for real discussion of rule violations, not expressing frustrations with the conclusions of staff. When your thread comes along, I will try to show up, should I be made aware of it, and speak my mind-- that Tensura seems very much compromised and WoG ought to be excluded from it, as we have done in the past for other similar cases.

Now, I'd like to hear from other staff. My proposal for Alex's ban would be relatively short, perhaps to the tune of 1-2 months.

 

[Ultimuru]

Would you say that manipulating an author to answer questions he does not want to answer, which is explicitly against our rules, classifies as "good faith"? I would not.

I don't think anyone is "manipulating" an author to answer anything. Fuse knows fans of his work well and knows when someone is using a word play to get an answer. In my opinion making Alex the main big bad of this report, just because he wanted to help people to construct questions properly, is an absurd.

Alex's comments are absolutely and strongly against our rules, no matter which way you slice it, and strongly so. These are rules that have been enshrined for a vast span of time, these are things everyone ought to be generally familiar with.

Alex, in the first place, did nothing. He said it off-site, he himself didn't messaged Fuse for anything, we also have no information about him actually doing what he offered. And let's say we are following narration that he "manipulated an author to get an answer". What's wrong with it if he never used WoG on VSBW? Fuse's statements are highly unusable anyway, so he couldn't use it even if he would want to.

I am sorry, I don't want to be disrespectful or anything, but I find it as an absurd that anyone want to ban Alex for something which don't affect VSBW, for "forcing" answers he never got, answers which couldn't be used even IF he would get it, and for something what was said on private Discord server among friends and was never supposed to be screenshotted and shared. I would understand if Fuse's words would actually hold any significant meaning for verse scaling and if he would be using these replies to backup CRTs. But that case is completely harmless.

Also, for my last point, I mentioned it before, but Fuse is often ignoring purely powerscaling questions. Tensura is filled to the brim with unclear things and many of us want to get clarification on some things, because we are fans in the first place, scaling comes as second. And because we are used to powerscaling jargon it's very unlikely we would get any answers. Answers which, again, couldn't be used anyway on VSBW and never was planned to be used. Because we all in Tensura fandom know how Fuse is answering to anything. And if someone says "Oh hey let's use this!" it's literally a joke. Jokes between powerscaling buddies on Discord. Something that was never meant to be taken seriously. That's all from me.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I think this all comes off as very damning. Harassing authors about powerscaling at all is against the rules, and I think extra condemnation can be extended for very obvious intent displayed by some of these posts. Manipulating it so it doesn't come off as powerscaling-esque seems to imply further intent to use these questions in CRTs, regardless of whether they were used at all, and certainly seems actively malicious. I disagree with the interpretations of Planck, in this regard.

For me at least, I personally dislike the idea of banning them from intention, when nothing has happened yet. But I suppose the key word here is "yet". On those grounds, I won't oppose the ban entirely.

 

[FinePoint]

Going by the current wording, it is indeed a rule violation to ask authors 'battle-boarding' questions. However, I believe this should not include instances where such WOGs are unrelated to VSBW and intended for use elsewhere. I think it might be a wording issue in the current rule. While I find these activities highly suspicious, in the absence of concrete evidence linking them to VSBW, I don't believe any action needs to be taken at this time. But just incase to clarify the intent of the rules, I will ping Finepoint, as they were involved in the recent WOG rule updates @FinePoint

Yes, in the sense of using whatever answers you scrounge together here. Do you actually, genuinely think we have any authority over the act of talking to authors itself?

Any such use of them on our site can and should be acted upon. But no user on this site owes "sole loyalty" or whatever to vs wiki. If they use those answers elsewhere, that's between them and that other site.

Part of the rule is to decentivize harassment, and the rules also state it is "frowned upon to bother them over these topics." Even if technically for the sake of a different battle-boarding site, these questions and answers will definitely make their way back to us through a different member which would essentially just create a hard-to-track loophole.

These are explicitly 'offsite' rules, meaning they refer to conduct offsite. The intention is not just to not allow WOG as evidence, in fact we do allow a lot of WOG as evidence if not obtained by one of our members.

I interpret it as being sort of a terms of service that to be a member here in good standing you need to not go off and pester authors with leading questions, similar to how we will ban people who commit online criminal activity even if it doesn't directly affect us. That said, if not malicious I'd consider this something minor that just some instruction would probably address.

All that said, as Planck points out, we don't exactly have jurisdiction over every interaction an author has with their fans. It would have to be provably one of our members and for the sake of battle-boarding.

If you think an exception should be made for battle-boarding but on different sites, we'd technically need to create a staff thread to change the current wording. I wouldn't find that unreasonable, but as-is the rules don't make that distinction and instead focus on our members not doing it at all to avoid bothering them and creating bad information.

 

[AlexSamDen]

Would you say that manipulating an author to answer questions he does not want to answer, which is explicitly against our rules, classifies as "good faith"? I would not. Alex's comments are absolutely and strongly against our rules, no matter which way you slice it, and strongly so. These are rules that have been enshrined for a vast span of time, these are things everyone ought to be generally familiar with.

I would not expect you to agree with the banning. It is your actions and the actions of others that we are banning. For my part, I do not blame you for playing your role in that, either. But it is unreasonable to leave a verse so obviously open to abuse when we do not need to do so. WoG in general is a dicey, questionable subject, and it is my opinion that it takes very little tampering to get it gone. This is more than a little tampering.

I would like to note that you, as many other people here before, for some reason, default to a single conclusion, when all you have is a cut-out single message

I already explained the meaning, purpose and reasoning of that message here