Rule Violation Reports (New forum)

[Lort15]

If this was intentional than its a report worthy.
Also, plz refrain from commenting here if there's nothing you can add to the report.

i've kinda checked the crt, not much time has passed and this could've been solved in the crt ngl, Lloydblitzed putted him to agreement cuz of he was fine with data manip he already gave an note about darksouls disagreement

 

[TWILIGHT-OP]

I think it was genuine miscommunication rather than an intentional action.

Honestly, I feel the same way. If it was just a miscommunication, he should correct his mistake and make sure it doesn’t happen again in the future. But I am not the one to take decision, wait for admins.

@Lloydblitzed Also, you should place disagreed members in the disagree section, whether it's for just one ability or more, rather than in the agree section. That just creates confusion.

 

[Hellformer]

Honestly, I feel the same way. If it was just a miscommunication, he should correct his mistake and make sure it doesn’t happen again in the future. But I am not the one to take decision, wait for admins.

@Lloydblitzed Also, you should place disagreed members in the disagree section, whether it's for just one ability or more, rather than in the agree section. That just creates confusion.

I think he corrected his mistake in a short time span so it ain't as dramatic as Darksouls is making it seem like.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

The trouble here is that it comes down to interpreting intent, which is fairly hard to do from a singular incident. If Lloydblitzed had a series of similar incidents that had been noted, this would be a very serious situation indeed. As it stands, the defense "I didn't mean to" seems to be sufficient for a one-time mistake that was rectified after. @Lloydblitzed This isn't a formal warning, just a word of advice to be very careful with this sort of thing. It's important not to misrepresent people.

With that, and failing evidence of further instances of this, I consider the matter resolved.

 

[Samlex1234]

I want to report @LephyrTheRevanchist for abuse of power. They banned me from a thread revision without any valid reason but simply because I disagreed with the unofficial conduct of an official staff on a CRT. Unless a valid reason is provided please unban me. Thank you

 

[Mr._Propeller_Hat]

I want to @LephyrTheRevanchist for abuse of power. They banned me from a thread revision without any valid reason but simply because I disagreed with the unofficial conduct of an official staff on a CRT. Unless a valid reason is provided please unban me. Thank you

You go to Human Resources for that, not here.

 

[Samlex1234]

You go to Human Resources for that, not here.

Please I need the link for that

 

[Damage3245]

What Mr. Propeller Hat said. Reports against staff go to Human Resources. What Lephyr did was give you a temporary time-out; if you have an issue with that you have to take it up with Lephyr or go to the forum's Human Resources group.

 

[Dereck03]

Please I need the link for that

HR is not a link per se, they are members. You go DM them. They can be found here.

 

[Samlex1234]

HR is not a link per se, they are members. You go DM them. They can be found here.

Thank you I appreciate.

 

[TWILIGHT-OP]

Thank you I appreciate.

Btw Dm them and not in public.

 

[Samlex1234]

Btw Dm them and not in public.

Oh sheesh, I already did, alright l will delete it and DM them in private then.

 

[Agnaa]

Earlier in this thread, I announced that Astral's translations should not be used as evidence unless they have been thoroughly and explicitly confirmed by translation helpers.

Recently, it seems like Astral has, by his own admission, violated that.

I've linked the translations of the ones that were translated by Wankbreaker in that reply.

The other ones regarding the Holy Spirit, he didn't translate (though they were present atm), so I assume he was fine with em, or he ignored em. Regardless, considering the fact that even the ones I asked atm in the tl thread haven't fully been translated since days, I don't think I'll get any more any time soon if I just link multiple even more scans on top of that.

I'd suggest a 1-6 month ban for this, what do others think?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Earlier in this thread, I announced that Astral's translations should not be used as evidence unless they have been thoroughly and explicitly confirmed by translation helpers.

Recently, it seems like Astral has, by his own admission, violated that.

I'd suggest a 1-6 month ban for this, what do others think?

I second this.

 

[Agnaa]

I would kind of like @Astral_Trinity439 or @Wankbreaker (or someone else) to comment on whether or not that was actually the case, before applying the ban, as I may have misunderstood something.

 

[Humanitus_Primevilus888]

I would kind of like @Astral_Trinity439 or @Wankbreaker (or someone else) to comment on whether or not that was actually the case, before applying the ban, as I may have misunderstood something.

Well there is the fact that Ultima actually comment the scan that @Astral_Trinity439 translated and give out their evaluation suggest that he accept his scan regardless. I don’t know if that counts as an acceptance to the translation unless I missed something

 

[Agnaa]

Well there is the fact that Ultima actually comment the scan that @Astral_Trinity439 translated and give out their evaluation suggest that he accept his scan regardless. I don’t know if that counts as an acceptance to the translation unless I missed something

Ultima is not a Translation Helper. He is only an Administrator.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Earlier in this thread, I announced that Astral's translations should not be used as evidence unless they have been thoroughly and explicitly confirmed by translation helpers.

Recently, it seems like Astral has, by his own admission, violated that.

I had Ultima to respond to, and the translation helpers in the tl thread seemed busy. However, while linking wankbreaker's post to mine for the tls, I noticed that he had said:

I will start with offering my retranslations based on the imgur links given by Astral

I believe these are all the sections of note

Source
Therefore, I now had a reason to assume he was fine with the other translations, since he said the ones he has translated were all the sections of note, or, all that mainly needed corrections.

Other then this specific set of scans , I either linked wankbreaker's comment in my reply to Ultima, or I gave the raws themselves while telling which part was mtl, as I did with wankbreaker in my reply to him earlier.

And given how rarely Ultima shows up in threads (his last reply was around a month ago if I recall correctly), I think using this reason as simply an emergency measure just so the staff doesn't loose interest again is fine, and thus see no reason for me to get a ban because of this.

I believe that was all, unless I missed something, I may add it later.

 

[Agnaa]

I had Ultima to respond to, and the translation helpers in the tl thread seemed busy. However, while linking wankbreaker's post to mine for the tls, I noticed that he had said:

"I will start with offering my retranslations based on the imgur links given by Astral"
"I believe these are all the sections of note"

Source
Therefore, I now had a reason to assume he was fine with the other translations, since he said the ones he has translated were all the sections of note, or, all that mainly needed corrections.

That's not what "of note" means. It just means "relevant"; they could've believed that the other scans weren't important, and so, didn't look into them.

Since my original post said that they'd need "explicit confirmation", something that vague doesn't really cut it.

Other then this specific set of scans , I either linked wankbreaker's comment in my reply to Ultima, or I gave the raws themselves while telling which part was mtl, as I did with wankbreaker in my reply to him earlier.

We explicitly do not allow MTL. From the Editing Rules:

Machine translation is not an acceptable alternative, as it is prone to errors and mistranslation, and would have to be re-evaluated by members of VSBW anyway, rendering it redundant.

I know that you've been told this before, so the fact that you still did it is striking to me.

And given how rarely Ultima shows up in threads (his last reply was around a month ago if I recall correctly), I think using this reason as simply an emergency measure just so the staff doesn't loose interest again is fine, and thus see no reason for me to get a ban because of this.

You cannot unilaterally decide which situations are enough of an emergency to break rules you were explicitly and repeatedly told not to break.

At this point, I'm not confident this will get through to you unless you're banned.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

.

Would it be possible to keep his Wiki account active so he can continue to help us fix the verse and his own mess?

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

That's not what "of note" means. It just means "relevant"; they could've believed that the other scans weren't important, and so, didn't look into them.

Since my original post said that they'd need "explicit confirmation", something that vague doesn't really cut it.

As I said before, I did so in a hurry since I don't expect wankbreaker or the other staff to have enough time to do this asap. However, Ultima hadn't replied so I believe it was still possible to reconfirm it later after posting it, since I doubt a Ultima would reply so soon.

We explicitly do not allow MTL. From the Editing Rules:
I know that you've been told this before, so the fact that you still did it is striking to me.

Which is why, as I said, I quite literally gave Wankbreaker the raws so he could translate it. Him might not finding time and thus not doing it is another thing separate from this.

You cannot unilaterally decide which situations are enough of an emergency to break rules you were explicitly and repeatedly told not to break.

I think if the intention was to later reconfirm it after posting them for the emergency, it could still be forgiven, perhaps with a second official warning. Regardless, the decision is yours.

At this point, I'm not confident this will get through to you unless you're banned

I deeply apologize and promise to not do it again. However, if it's not enough, I request to not be banned for the time being, as I'll be heavily if not completely inactive in a month for many months to come (mainly because then I'll be busy with new university life), so I want to do what I can for the verse within that small time I have.

This is likely gonna be my last reply regarding this situation. The rest is up to y'all.

And, to add, I request to not be banned in fandom, at least, so I can create sandboxes to help others.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Explicitly and knowingly breaking rules that you were directly told to not break is fairly damning. I find the first request of delaying a ban until it won't affect you to be an unreasonable one. Why, then, institute a ban?

Dark Soul reached out to me privately to elaborate on the need for Astral to remain unbanned on Fandom, at least, to assist with "fixing" the verse. I am uncertain as to the absolute need for this- it seems Astral can still certainly assist with the un-******* of the verse, if he so chooses, whilst banned. Still, if Agnaa would make such a concession, I would not count myself as opposed.

As for ban duration, I would err for a mid-length ban, given how clear-cut this seems to be, of three months.

 

[Dereck03]

On how long the ban should last I have no opinion, but what I don't agree with is giving preference and leaving his fandom account unbanned (in case he gets banned from the forum) since literally if he was trying to “fix” the verse he wouldn't be breaking this rule at convenience to literally “fix” I see no point in banning one and leaving the other, let it be the 2 or neither.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

On how long the ban should last I have no opinion, but what I don't agree with is giving preference and leaving his fandom account unbanned (in case he gets banned from the forum) since literally if he was trying to “fix” the verse he wouldn't be breaking this rule at convenience to literally “fix” I see no point in banning one and leaving the other, let it be the 2 or neither.

To make sure he is only "fixing" stuff, that would mean we will constantly monitor his history/activity, meaning if he does something that goes against it, we will instantly report it.

Is that right with you? At least a single chance to help us fix it?

If you want exact details, I can do that in private messages or any form of private chat.

 

[Agnaa]

Assistance can still be provided in other ways.

You can communicate off-site, send drafts through text files or by linking to pages you make on other wikis, etc.

I'm concerned about Astral still having direct edit access to things on the wiki since one of their offences (before the first warning) involved adding scans to another user's sandbox, which involved a mistranslation and was ultimately carried through to the final page without proper vetting.

So I don't think that's a very good concession to grant, in terms of trying to prevent further issues.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Assistance can still be provided in other ways.

You can communicate off-site, send drafts through text files or by linking to pages you make on other wikis, etc.

I'm concerned about Astral still having direct edit access to things on the wiki since one of their offences (before the first warning) involved adding scans to another user's sandbox, which involved a mistranslation and was ultimately carried through to the final page without proper vetting.

Would Constant monitoring work? As I said, I would personally be able to keep his activity monitored, and we can limit what it would it would mean.

 

[Agnaa]

I'd rather you just communicate with Astral off-site, and receive help that way. Requiring that things are vetted by y'all before they're posted, rather than checking on it afterwards to clean things up if necessary.

I might be a bit more sympathetic to that idea if you were able to pick up this violation in the first place, but you were posting on the forum at that time and didn't report it to me. Why would I trust you to catch future issues if you missed this one?

 

[SeijiSetto]

i have reason to think @Albert-Moriarty777 is providing machine-translated scans in the TL thread
as agnaa mentioned not too far above, from our editing rules:

Machine translation is not an acceptable alternative, as it is prone to errors and mistranslation, and would have to be re-evaluated by members of VSBW anyway, rendering it redundant.

i'd first like to point to this now-deleted post (for those who can see it), and the post immediately below where it was for those who can't - you can look at mine and Wesker018's replies to it and read the quote in our posts.
i feel it is self-explanatory that this is practically copy-pasted output from an LLM such as ChatGPT, Gemini, Deepseek, Claude, etc.
to reference a similar-but-not-identical incident earlier, i'll link Grath's post for when TheUnshakableOne was demoted for using MTL rather than actually knowing Japanese. similar markers are present.
repeated explanations of the same thing (look for "Comma", which is an odd thing to explain at all in my opinion, and funnily enough, also "の (no)", which is one of the same things that Grath mentioned in her post too!)
you can also check out Grath's post for an example of her asking ChatGPT for a similar task and getting a remarkably similar output.

even after being told not to provide MTL'd scans, he continues to provide translations and simply removed all but the final output.

 

[Agnaa]

Given how blatant that is, how new they are, and how they're insisting it's all legit, I'm inclined to go for a one year ban.

Although I must admit, I am curious what they'd show with the "live screenshot" on Discord. I'd be happy to try that and record the results if anyone is curious.

 

[Nierre]

Isn't a 1 year ban is a bit too hasty? He doesn't seem to be a troll, although he does seem hardheaded. If there's a way to ban him from translating stuff (maybe from the thread itself), I'd rather that than have him banned from the site for 1 year.

 

[Mr._Propeller_Hat]

1 year ban does sound pretty extreme as well, just bar him from translating anything.

 

[Ciel_Trinity439]

i have reason to think @Albert-Moriarty777 is providing machine-translated scans in the TL thread
as agnaa mentioned not too far above, from our editing rules:


i'd first like to point to this now-deleted post (for those who can see it), and the post immediately below where it was for those who can't - you can look at mine and Wesker018's replies to it and read the quote in our posts.
i feel it is self-explanatory that this is practically copy-pasted output from an LLM such as ChatGPT, Gemini, Deepseek, Claude, etc.
to reference a similar-but-not-identical incident earlier, i'll link Grath's post for when TheUnshakableOne was demoted for using MTL rather than actually knowing Japanese. similar markers are present.
repeated explanations of the same thing (look for "Comma", which is an odd thing to explain at all in my opinion, and funnily enough, also "の (no)", which is one of the same things that Grath mentioned in her post too!)
you can also check out Grath's post for an example of her asking ChatGPT for a similar task and getting a remarkably similar output.

even after being told not to provide MTL'd scans, he continues to provide translations and simply removed all but the final output.

Given how blatant that is, how new they are, and how they're insisting it's all legit, I'm inclined to go for a one year ban.

Although I must admit, I am curious what they'd show with the "live screenshot" on Discord. I'd be happy to try that and record the results if anyone is curious.

I told you and I say again, instead of throwing accusations, there is something called verification.
So I demand of you now to come to Discord and experience what I do to you yourself.
All my translations are my own.

 

[Agnaa]

I told you and I say again, instead of throwing accusations, there is something called verification.
So I demand of you now to come to Discord and experience what I do to you yourself.
All my translations are my own.

What's your Discord username?

 

[Ciel_Trinity439]

What's your Discord username?

moriarty0230

 

[Agnaa]

Isn't a 1 year ban is a bit too hasty? He doesn't seem to be a troll, although he does seem hardheaded. If there's a way to ban him from translating stuff (maybe from the thread itself), I'd rather that than have him banned from the site for 1 year.

1 year ban does sound pretty extreme as well, just bar him from translating anything.

For a user who immediately joins and does this, and who didn't do so by mistake (i.e. is trying to deceive us), and hasn't had time to contribute positively outside of that, I'm willing to be more harsh.

I think it also helps disincentivise sockpuppeting for this sorta thing.

moriarty0230

Alright, I've sent a friend request.

confirmation message

 

[Agnaa]

After 30 minutes of rather uneventful footage (so much so that I won't bother posting it unless others request), I have the following to report:

• Screenshare only briefly worked, the rest of the time it just showed as loading. This is probably an internet issue, since on their end they sent screenshots of it working fine.
• From that, I saw that they often had forum messages MTL'd into Arabic, indicating that they're not a proficient English speaker.
• I asked them to translate an image of text. They asked if they could use AI to extract text from the image (which shouldn't be necessary if they're a proficient translator).
• Over that thirty minutes, the translations they provided were incredibly sparse and shoddy:
  • I asked them to translate one word in the top-right of the image, and they managed to do so accurately after about four minutes.
  • I asked them to translate some wordplay in the top-left of the image. Here's a screenshot of that exchange, but to explain it. After 2 minutes they responded with "Ponte" (which is meaningless in context), then after 5 more minutes they responded with some text in Arabic, which MTLs to "it means it's Fontay", which also seems meaningless to me. After that they posted some text, which seems to be a bad AI text extraction from some stuff in the top-right of the image; it misses a bunch of characters and pulls parts from odd areas of the image.
  • I then asked for clarification on those things. Here's a screenshot of that exchange, but to explain it, it looks like they misread "buntai", and somehow combined it with other text from different parts of the image, leading to a nonsense response not present in the original text ("What is Fantai? Kakuyomi's dictionary for each series"). In contrast, here's the translation I did for the part they accidentally pulled from; (What Is the ‘Style!’? Following the theme of “Dictionary and Exhibition”, written in the styles of ten of his exemplary series, this is Nisio Isin’s style drill!)
  • Given how they took text from the wrong part of the image, it seems like their understanding of English isn't great either.
  • There were no other translations provided by them over this period.
• From this, I believe this user has little grasp of Japanese and English, and is using MTL to make up for that.

And so, I hold my prior view that this user is not a competent translator. And either due to maliciousness, or due to not properly understanding English, has ended up repeatedly lying and violating our rules.

 

[Ciel_Trinity439]

After 30 minutes of rather uneventful footage (so much so that I won't bother posting it unless others request), I have the following to report:

• Screenshare only briefly worked, the rest of the time it just showed as loading. This is probably an internet issue, since on their end they sent screenshots of it working fine.
• From that, I saw that they often had forum messages MTL'd into Arabic, indicating that they're not a proficient English speaker.
• I asked them to translate an image of text. They asked if they could use AI to extract text from the image (which shouldn't be necessary if they're a proficient translator).
• Over that thirty minutes, the translations they provided were incredibly sparse and shoddy:
  • I asked them to translate one word in the top-right of the image, and they managed to do so accurately after about four minutes.
  • I asked them to translate some wordplay in the top-left of the image. Here's a screenshot of that exchange, but to explain it. After 2 minutes they responded with "Ponte" (which is meaningless in context), then after 5 more minutes they responded with some text in Arabic, which MTLs to "it means it's Fontay"
  • I then asked for clarification on those things. Here's a screenshot of that exchange, but to explain it, it looks like they misread "buntai", and somehow combined it with other text from different parts of the image, leading to a nonsense response not present in the original text ("What is Fantai? Kakuyomi's dictionary for each series"). In contrast, here's the translation I did for the part they accidentally pulled from; (What Is the ‘Style!’? Following the theme of “Dictionary and Exhibition”, written in the styles of ten of his exemplary series, this is Nisio Isin’s style drill!)
  • Given how they took text from the wrong part of the image, it seems like their understanding of English isn't great either.
  • There were no other translations provided by them over this period.
• From this, I believe this user has little grasp of Japanese and English, and is using MTL to make up for that.

And so, I hold my prior view that this user is not a competent translator. And either due to maliciousness, or due to not properly understanding English, has ended up repeatedly lying and violating our rules.

No matter how hard you try to tell me about this, it won't help and that's clear.
There are some things that need to be clarified here.
I am a new person here and I do not know the complete rules.

First, my English is good; I think you just misunderstood some things.
Anyway, whatever I say—or don't say—here won't change anything, as I already know. So, what I should do is apologize for breaking a rule that I didn't even know existed in the first place.
Therefore...
I would like to sincerely apologize for violating one of the specific rules and take full responsibility for that. It was never my intention to offend or manipulate; rather, it was a misjudgment on my part regarding what I could offer in the field of translation. I fully understand that translation is a responsibility that requires accuracy and professionalism, and I acknowledge that what I provided did not meet the required standard, which may have caused issues during the evaluation.
Based on this experience, I have decided to stop translating for now—not for any reason other than the fact that my main goal is to help others and contribute in more beneficial ways. My intention was never to present myself as a professional translator or anything of the sort—something I have already mentioned to others. My primary goal has always been to contribute to the community in the best way possible within my current capabilities.
I appreciate the time and effort put into evaluating my work, and I understand any decisions that were made based on it. I hope this will not affect my participation in the forum, as I still have a strong desire to engage positively and support members in other ways.

Once again, I apologize, and I appreciate your un
derstanding.

 

[Dereck03]

snip

I will comment just to add something.

While your apology may feel genuine I don't think it justifies your previous attitude. As can be seen you were actively daring Agnaa to prove that what you were saying about the translation was correct and that the “accusations” were completely false (which in the end it seems they were not), you simply should not have behaved in a haughty manner if in the end it turned out to be the opposite of what you were saying.

Regarding the rule, you may have been a new user who doesn't really know the rules, but you were told that AI or MTL was not allowed and you kept saying that those were your translations and that you were willing to show them in discord, but translating something with AI/MTL and changing the text to make it look like it is not AI doesn't mean that the translations are yours (which seems to be what you were doing), you may not know but recently a user is about to receive a ban for a similar case.

Anyway, this was all due to the analysis approach that Agnaa provided here so good job. On side note, I think we should add to the OP of the translations thread that AI/MTL is not allowed.

That's all I have to say, it's up to Agnaa to decide the outcome here.-

 

[Agnaa]

I'm happy to drop the ban duration (all the way down to, say, a month), but I think a ban is still justified.

 

[Antvasima]

A ban for a month, possibly combined with a longer translation thread ban, seems much more reasonable than a 1 year general ban in this case.