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Rose Quartz vs. WarGreymon

Yes, she can remake her shield at will, and Rose is more than capable in melee combat. Problem is we've never actually seen her in a full fight, only in still frames depicting fights or in short, few second long flashbacks (Albeit she's almost always beating whoever she's fighting in them). What we do know is that she trained Garnet personally in combat to the point that Garnet became skilled to take on three battalions (So a total of anywhere from 1500 to 2400) Quartz soldiers, whose basically entire purpose for existing is to be exceedingly skilled and strong in combat, alongside Bismuth.
 
Hm, that actually makes it tougher still. If I knew how she acted I could at least try to determine the most likely result, but if all we know is "she's skilled and powerful, and is good at strategizing" then I'm honestly not sure how to determine who wins. It's likely she blocks all his attacks and manages to wear him down with attacks at weak points over time, but it's also likely she gets her body and gem destroyed by his continuous buffed attacks. A 2x buff isn't enough to oneshot by any means, but it's enough that she can't take many of his attacks without serious damage. Were it a more bestial Digimon Ilike SkullGreymon I'd be more willing to bet on her...unless it was literally SkullGreymon cause he scales to MetalGreymon who'd be a mismatch for sure.

I have no doubt she can match him in melee combat thanks to her skill and smaller size allowing for better evasion, but higher AP via stat buffing with the added wildcard element of Overwrite...I might go inconclusive. If I knew more about her in-character fighting style I could determine the victor, but as it is now either has the tools to win. He has better offense, but her superior defense means he has to be better at attacking or he just doesn't have a chance. Likewise her defending skills and shield durability are what keep him from getting an edge immediately with Acceleration Boost.

Unless I'm missing something important, I'm voting inconclusive for now. It's the safest option in a situation like this where either can take a win and neither is necessarily more likely to win by a huge amount.
 
His higher AP would be canceled out by her shield and bubble, the bubble in particular she can use as a simultaneous defense and offense by coating it with spikes to provide both an impenetrable defense and having Greymon attacking a sharp object. If she notices he's becoming too fast to handle she'd put up a bubble to protect herself.
 
Yeah but she won't turtle indefinitely, since she's a slightly more proactive fighter than the pacifist Steven. The bubble being used as an offensive weapon doesn't work as well against someone who wouldn't bother attacking since he knows his attacks won't break it, and is large enough to stop the spikes from piercing his body anyway. He won't just mindlessly hit a spiky bubble he knows won't be broken by his attacks. And in the end he won't ever be too fast to handle, but he needs fewer good hits thanks to Acceleration Boost. If her defense wasn't this good it wouldn't even really be a match, since he'd be able to overwhelm her fairly easily with higher AP and speed equal mitigating any speed advantages either of them may have had.

Fighting a creature she's never seen before, from an entire type of beings she's never heard of before, with unique abilities she hasn't dealt with makes her strategic advantage nearly useless, especially since this is a solo fight against a nearly equal opponent rather than hords of fodder enemies or a large military force she's pretty familiar with due to being part of it previously.

Saying "she's good at defending therefore she blocks all his attacks in every scenario" isn't good enough for me, hence my inconclusive vote. Usually I can determine when someone is more likely to win, but when I think either could realistically win and neither edges out too much I go for inconclusive. She can win and he can win and neither should have massively higher chances.

EDIT: Done for now, getting really early and I need to actually sleep tonight
 
Question: Would it be out of character for Rose to throw up a spike bubble and just ram him repeatedly?
 
@Apies Because Rose had Bismuth create it specifically to be able to cut through a gem's body to poof them but not damage their Gem, its the reason why Connie was able to pose a threat against Gems despite being a strong human otherwise
 
No, I know that. What I meant was do we have any clue as to the mechanisim and could that mechanisim work on Greymon through verse equalization?
 
Yeah I forgot that he'd also still have Attack Charge from Agumon's moveset. I'm leaning more and more towards inconclusive here, since it's a fight of a more skilled defender versus a stronger attacker with several buffs he can use regularly. I wish I knew more about Rose's in-character skillset and tactics, because then I could be more accurate.

As for the sword negating Greymon's durability, I very much doubt it would work on him. It's designed to cut through the hard-light projections that gems use as bodies, Greymon's body is nothing like that so assuming it would work at all really doesn't make sense. It'd still work as a regular melee weapon, but it isn't gonna be cutting through him right away.

Side note, if gems can restore their bodies why does "poofing" them even count as a winning strategy? Unless it takes far longer than I expected initially, that would only really work as a stalling tactic.
 
But it was stated the sword was made to do so without damagint the gem, implying she wanted to spare them. Otherwise something that could shatter gems from a distance would be a far better weapon than something made not to damage them.
 
Dependant on the Gem it could take anywhere from a few hours to a few weeks to reform properly, and if they rush it they can come back deformed.
 
Huh, that regen is not as good as I expected. You'd think with their bodies being simple hardlight projections it would be easier to remake them. Unless it has to take in solar energy to do so? That would slow it down quite a bit...

Is it safe for me to assume the answers to this aren't in the show? I generally prefer to know things. S'why I think about Digimon mechanics so much, like how Digisoul is remarkably similar to Overwrite or why Marcus is so strong compared to other humans in the franchise. Come to think of it, that could be Overwrite too? It's a bit of a stretch considering no human has shown the capability to use Digimon abilities before, but if Digisoul were the human application of Overwrite that might explain why they can transfer the energy to Digimon to induce Digivolution or form changes...chances are I'm missing something important that ruins that entire theory though. Yeah I just now thought of it actually, since that makes Dark Digisoul even stranger and harder to explain. And it bringing forth the Dark Area would throw a wrench into that idea pretty quick...yeah it's probably wrong.
 
Since you two seem to be giving contradictory statements I would like some proof one way or the other. If none can be provided I'll just assume it takes a few minutes at most. It doesn't really affect the result since I was debating assuming the regen was quicker anyway, but I'd like to know just in case I end up debating in another SU match. This is the second one so I don't doubt the possibility of me finding another one I take interest in.
 
Do we know how quickly Rose can regen? If not I'll assume the 80 seconds is a nice starting point for now, since as I said I was making my decision to go for inconclusive whilst thinking it took approximately that amount of time anyway. It might be useful in the future to know this though so I'll try to remember.

@Apies Was your statement referring to lower tier gems or did you intend for me to think Rose and comparable gems would take a few hours as well? I'm asking because if there are more consistent slower showings then it could be that this instance with Amethyst isn't necessarily a good timeframe to assume other gems will be able to match reliably. I'd hate to debate in future with this idea in mind if it's incorrect.
 
Amethyst has actually regenerated faster but her form suffered as a result due to, as stated by Garnet, Amethyst messing around and not taking her Regenerationn seriously at the time. The 80 second Regenerationn is the fastest time Amethyst took to make a fully functional body while being completely serious about it lasting. The same should apply to basically any Gem.

What Apies was referring to is Pearl taking two weeks to regenerate which she and Garnet both stated took so long because she's an absolutely meticulous perfectionist. Meanwhile during the events of 'The Return', after being poofed by a Gem destabilizer Ruby and Sapphire were able to regenerate in a short period of time and basically any time we see a Gem freed from bubbling or another form of sealing such as Lapis' mirror they regenerate in seconds.
 
@VindictiveLoser Weekly's said basically what I was getting at.

All this talk of Poofing and reforming actually got me thinking about Diamonds, the issue here being if Rose is poofed will she reform as Pink, aka High 6-A. Actually I have a problem with Rose having a lower tier while shapeshifted. As far as I know we have nothing to suggest shapeshifting changes AP at all.
 
Since the Regenerationn seems to be a conscious effort it's likely she can simply reform the body in the shape it was before being destroyed, similar to how they can accidentally create physical defects if they try to return too quickly.

As for the Ap changing with shapeshifting, it honestly might. If it can give abilities like flight then increasing or decreasing power is likely possible. As for whether or not that's what she did, I'd personally guess no because she has no reason to do so and unless there's an inherent power drop from the change she made it wouln't make logical sense. Though at the same time if Rose has only shown feats at a certain level scaling her to a prior form might be considered invalid reasoning. If it's uncertain at all generally you should go with the safest option.
 
It's not a prior form, it's her true form. She only maintained the shape of a Rose Quartz to disguise herself. IIRC no other Gem has gain any AP boost or otherwise from shapeshifting. Also, if Pink were to reform as Rose it would take a more concentrated effort and theirfore take longer, plus why reform weaker when you can reform stronger. But for the sake of argument, we could always just say Pink Diamond is restricted. Honestly I think Rose is in need of a CRT.
 
If that revision is done then this match won't be possible anymore. The forms weaker than Greymon X were out of the question from the beginning, but he was the only key from that profile she could fight evenly with. Any higher and they stomp massively, even File MetalGreymon is far too much.
 
So I had some shower thoughts and I guess you could argue that Pink is purposefully restricting herself in this form, plus the fact that if she is poofed, she isn't likely to reform fast enough to really continue the fight before GreyX royally destroys her programing.
 
Im still seeing Rose as being far more skilled that Greymon here which should give her the win if nothing else.
 
So let me see if I have the facts straight. Greymon X has the AP advantage plus his digi-soul/mind hax stuff. Rose had the Durability advantage with her Bubble Shield. She's also, potentially, a more skilled fighter. If she were more of a pasifist, ironically she'd have a better chance of winning cause she could just let GreyX tire himeself out on her Bubble. Because she's a more proactive combatant, that gives GreyX more chances to totally wreak her. GreyX also has stat boosting skills.

So, two questions. Does GreyX have any speed boosting skills and can Rose self heal?
 
Gerymon only has the stat advantage via stat amping but Rose has her shield and bubble to compensate, otherwise their stats are basically equal

Yes to both, Speed amps for Greymon were discussed earlier albeit theyre not blitz worthy speed amps, and Rose can regenerate up to lost limbs without being poofed
 
I was more refering to if GreyX got a lucky hit on the Gem itself, but alright. I guess I can see Rose winning for now due to stratigic use of Bubble Shield.
 
You're forgetting they're damage boosts he can use before every hit. I can't help but feel you're overselling her best abilities here and underselling his, since better defense doesn't matter when she'll have to expose herself to attack properly and her better skill isn't provably higher than his by an amount to affect the result that much.

Saying she definitely has higher skills in combat, and that it will help against something she shouldn't have any experience fighting, and then saying we never actually see her in action is dubious at best. I gave you the benefit of the doubt that her skill would enable her to defend well enough to stay in the fight, which allows her to either outlast him or land enough hits to deal fatal damage. However, you're acting as though he's going to stand there and allow her to hit him. He will be countering, buffing himself several times over, and using decent AoE when it's useful. "She has (probably) higher skill and he can't break her shield" is lazy reasoning at best and I can't support it.

You cannot argue that she will block all his attacks when you have no showings of her in combat. You cannot argue that his stat boosts aren't enough when they greatly lower the number of hits he needs to score. You cannot argue she will resurrect in seconds as even the fastest in most scenarios has been little over a minute, which is plenty of time for him to shatter her gem. He isn't an idiot, if an enemy dies and only one piece survives he will attack it, and the mind damaging aspect will aid him in destroying her mind entirely.

I am remaining firmly inconclusive. Nothing you have said so far has swayed me back to voting for Rose. In your own words "we've never actually seen her in a full fight". That alone makes me doubt she has such a monumental skill advantage, considering she should be entirely stumped as to how to fight a Digimon seeing as she's literally never seen one before and they function entirely differently to every opponent she's faced. Part of your justification for her higher skill also had nothing to do with in combat actions, but was just that she's good at strategizing. Nobody here has time to prepare and she has no idea what Greymon X even is. Saying "she's faced and scared off comparable beings before" hardly means anything when it's not even known how exactly she did this. I'm honestly getting tired of this, so I'm done for now. At least until someone brings up an interesting point or something that realistically would have an effect on the result.
 
Not MetalGreymon, he stomps, Greymon X.

They're also remarkably unintelligent, righting as robots with their only intelligence justification being "sapient". They're hardly comparable to Greymon X, who can buff his damage several times over and attack her mind directly with a hit to her gem.

EDIT: Small addition, how is their physiology in any way similar to a Digimon? They appear to also be made of light, meaning they're closer to gems.
 
White Lights can buff their damage too, and Rose will not be letting Greymon anywhere near her Gem
 
I didn't say she'll trip and expose her gem like an idiot, I said he can damage her mind directly by hitting it after destroying her body. And comparing Greymon to them isn't a conclusive reason for her winning. Do we see how she wins at all? She likely won via shielding smartly and attacking when they showed openings, but to say the same strategy will work 100% as well on Greymon X is ignoring the differences between the two fighters.

Is there ever even confirmation that she defeated them all? At this point I'm legitimately skeptical of anything you say regarding her because "incredibly skilled" became "never fought on screen" pretty quickly, and the fact that wasn't brought up before when it's obviously relevant information actually kinda upset me.

I asked several times how she acts in character and got responses that indicate we know a fair bit about that, followed by "actually we don't know for sure, we've never seen her fight properly". I hate to explode like this but I'm getting tired of it. Remind me never to join a debate involving a SU character again, cause it really isn't worth all this time I've spent thinking about it.
 
Why would she have to expose herself to attack properly? Even Stevonnie, who uses the same armament as Rose but is far less skilled, is able to properly use their offensive sword and defensive shield in tandem.

Gems have conquered dozens of planets with living beings that have different powers and she taught people who previously had no formal combat experience how to fight so well that they were able to take down over 1000 beings whose entire purpose for existing is to be skilled in combat. Plus basically everything Greymon can do there is a Gem that can do the exact same thing too.

The fact alone that basically everyone in the series, even the antagonists, view Rose as one of the most skilled fighters and tacticians is a testament to her skill
 
She is fighting a being far larger than her, that shield at it's base size won't be enough to defend against him. She will have to either bubble up or enlarge it, meaning she won't be able to attack. She will block some attacks, that's a given, but to still say she can defend against them all is silly.

There are gems that shatter mind and souls with physical strikes, can boost the damage of his attacks by 2x, buff them by a further 50%, breath fire as a concentrated blast or a large wave, respond to stress with an even greater power boost, and keep up with much smaller fighters despite his large size? All while having intelligence comparable to or greater than an average human with amazing battle instincts and the natural ability to fight being essentially programmed into his being?

Again, saying other characters are scared of her means little here. It's not quantifiable at all, and saying it's enough to bridge the gap between his buffed AP and her durability smashing her to pieces is reaching a bit.

Notice I've never said she has no chance? I've never even said I doubt she wins. I have said that with her skills and defensive techniques, her winning just as often based on those alone is likely. I have been firmly inconclusive nearly this entire time, and before that I was voting for Rose. It's the uncertain factors that you treat as a boon that I see as a massive blind spot. If I voted for Rose, or Greymon for that matter, in this situation I'd consider myself a complete failure.

Unless there's something to be added here, I'm done. I retract my vote, I'm unfollowing the thread, and I'm more than likely staying away from SU.
 
Rose has fought beings larger than herself before and scales to people who have done the same.

Any of the Diamonds (And technically rose herself as Pink) can do that via Corruption, most Gems can amp and buff their attacks, Alexandrite can breath fire and multiple Gems can generate fire, Lights are quite a bit larger than Rose and she was able to fight off several of them at once, and she scales to people who can easily take down fusion Gems several times their size. And basically any Gem worth their salt is vastly more intelligent than any human, even Gem tech that is considered ancient by current homeworld technicians makes modern human technology look like the stone age. And as i said before, yes, what youre describing with being hard wired for battle is every Quartz soldier ever.

Theyre not scared of her, they acknowledge her as overwhelmingly skilled, even Jasper, who is referred to as the Ultimate Quartz Soldier, states that she respects rose as a tactician.
 
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