Rosalina Low 2-C Downgrade or AP Justification Revision

[ShadowWarrior1999]

@EveryoneElse Also, Dino left the thread due to the hostility. And actually, not going to say names, but a few users who are currently blocked are legit every bit as hostile as they're said to be. And also, don't use long quotes.

There was no hostility on the thread until Dino started attacking Sonic fans.

If by blocked users you mean Fuzzie and ZaStando there's no point in mentioning them, they're not present here on this thread and they're not ever coming back to this site.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

Dear lord this thread is mess


while i disagree with the revision and think that there is alot of issues in threads regarding the fanbases, can we at least do the very obvious thing and not add to it by blaming everyone else and instead focus on rational arguments? Otherwise even if you could argue foul play via toxcity it'd just be condoning it.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Well it still wasn't his intention. He mainly came here to clarify facts, and also; their are still too many downgrade threads for verses opposite of that verse made without knowledge or context was still his point. He also never shouted, insulted or cussed at anyone. He also noted that Warren was legit being reasonable. But still, he still gave far more reasonings for Rosalina's tiers remaining.

Also, please refrain from derailing any further about him.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Don't have any thoughts about the downgrade yet, but yeah I agree Dino had no reason to specifically attack Sonic fans especially since half of the people who agreed with the downgrade when he made that comment aren't supporters of the series. The only hostility that would have came from this thread would have been instigated by him.

Thats enough derailing had to get that off my chest. I'm neutral about this at tue moment.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

@Zephyros, didn't you also make a thread that was going to upgrade Mario and fodder Goombas to universal?

Sounds a bit uncalled for, DDM, and I don't see how it pertains to this thread. Just wanted to point that out

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I was simply asking him out of curiosity. He said he doesn't think anyone in base form should be universal. I had nothing against him, it was just the awkward U-turn was still awkward was all. And same thread had multiple things, not just scaling from Rosalina.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

I was simply asking him out of curiosity. He said he doesn't think anyone in base form should be universal. I had nothing against him, it was just the awkward U-turn was still awkward was all. And same thread had multiple things, not just scaling from Rosalina.

I would just say to make that more clear next time. Didn't mean to accuse you, just wanted some clarification

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

I was simply asking him out of curiosity. He said he doesn't think anyone in base form should be universal. I had nothing against him, it was just the awkward U-turn was still awkward was all. And same thread had multiple things, not just scaling from Rosalina.

DDM is correct. My thread doesn't really have anything to do with this, and I was also kinda stupid and brought into the "Vs wiki sucks lol, OUR site does it better" schtick they had. which I realize now is... wrong.

 

[Genericstickman]

well dang I was going to make a thread about this

 

[Theuser789]

Why were Sonic fans blamed when the thread wasn't even made by a series supporter? And it's not like Sonic fans always tries to make threads downgrading Mario, seems like a unecessary attack against them

Anyways I am neutral on this

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

I'm neutral/ambivalent. I'll wait until the topic progresses further.

Until then, please stop fighting?

 

[Starsprite53]

Kirby solos

 

[NotAMarioFan(lol)]

Oh look another thread that isn't going anywhere...

 

[TheArsenal1212]

I agree with the reasonings of DDM of keeping Rosalina at Low 2-C, I think it may need extra justifications and notes here and there but she definitely stays there IMO.

 

[Jvando]

She perhaps could use more scans and more elaborate justifications, but she is legit easily superior to Grand Star Powered Bowser who has the Low 2-C feats. She scales accordingly, and creates Grand Stars. Case and Point.

I'll be honest the most I know about Mario is that he's a plumber and that his games are fun to play, but from what I'm getting here, the lady in question created these Grand Stars, the same things that allowed Bowser to become Low 2-C (Going by the Grand Star powered Bowser)?

 

[Warren_Valion]

Good lord, this is why I didn't want to make this thread.


Everyone on every side, listen.

We are all adults, or at least possess the maturity of an adult, and we all will debate like adults.

We will not throw around ad hominems or insults.

We will make arguments and rebuttals. And we will agree, disagree, or be neutral about both sides of an argument.

And that's that. If you can't handle that, then leave - for both your own personal benefit, and for the benefit of this thread.


I will NOT have my CRT be derailed due to puerility. I don't have the time, patience, or willpower to deal with it.

Do you all, understand?

 

[Yobo_Blue]

technically there are teenagers in this thread

 

[Warren_Valion]

First of all, her magic should be comparable to her force fields given that the forcefield is the exact same power source as he reality warping abilities; so her Attack Potency would be Low 2-C regardless. I can't post too much because I'm both very tired and very busy ATM due to just getting back from work not too long ago. But I agree that Dino Ranger Black addressed this numerous times.

I feel like a majority, if not all of you, missed the second half of the title.

This isn't just a Low 2-C downgrade, its a thread explaining my problems with Rosalina's Low 2-C justification.

The most extreme solution being proposed by the thread would be to downgrade her from Low 2-C, but there is a lesser extreme, and that solution is to improve Rosalina's AP justification with proper justification, because her current reasoning is frankly, wrong.

I am here to make the profiles more accurate, not inherently downgrade them.


But anyway, to answer you point.

Not nesecerially.

Even if powered by the same energy, not all abilites are inherently on the same tiering. Her forcefields could be a different tier than her reality warping abilities.

To bring up a similar example, Android 17 from Dragon Ball can create a forcefield is noticeably more durable than he is himself.


Edit: This is the only rebuttal I can get to for now - I will be able to get to more of them much later today. Again, I am sorry for this slow rebuttal speed, but that's life for ya.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I agree that her justifications need to be adjusted, but I'm pretty sure she's still considered well above Grand Stars. As Dino said, it's not really stated that she shielded herself from the Space-Time reset, only Mario and Peach. And Bowser survived more so due to the Grand Star, but wasn't shielded. Rosalina was also stated to have created Grand Stars, which sounds like more than enough reason for her to be well above them.

 

[Genericstickman]

But Bowser didn't have the Grand Star when the black hole happened

 

[Antvasima]

I trust Dino Ranger Black's judgement regarding the Mario profiles, but agree about that it would be appreciated if he could improve on the justifications for her tier in her profile page.

In addition, it is obviously unnecessary to throw around accusations, but he may have been tired due to previous situations.

 

[NotAMarioFan(lol)]

I agree with @DRB and @DDM

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Agreed with Antvasima; but I prefer to wait till he has time. I'm sure he has a scan confirming that Rosalina creates Grand Stars, and that's really the only thing needed to prove she is indeed Low 2-C.

 

[Corgi_the_Gen_Z_God]

Isn't her special attack in Smash she creates a grand star?

 

[Antvasima]

@Medeus

Could you ask him to comment here again later?

 

[Jvando]

Isn't her special attack in Smash she creates a grand star?

Is it this and this?

 

[Corgi_the_Gen_Z_God]

@Jvando Sans

 

[Warren_Valion]

I agree that her justifications need to be adjusted, but I'm pretty sure she's still considered well above Grand Stars. As Dino said, it's not really stated that she shielded herself from the Space-Time reset, only Mario and Peach. And Bowser survived more so due to the Grand Star, but wasn't shielded. Rosalina was also stated to have created Grand Stars, which sounds like more than enough reason for her to be well above them.

If I could get a scan stating that Grand Stars are capable of destroying the entire universe and a scan stating that Rosalina created or can create Grand Stars, then I would be completely fine with Rosa being Low 2-C.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Anyway, I'll count up all votes and talk with Dino on his wall about the topic.

If, I didn't get someone, someone changed their mind, or I put someone in the place in the wrong place - just correct me and I'll fix it.

 

[Genericstickman]

I mean Bowsers own galaxy that was created using the Grand Star collapsing caused the universal black hole to appear so theirs that

 

[Warren_Valion]

My response to Dino Ranger Black:

"First off, thank you for taking me and my problems seriously.

Secondly, I feel the need to tell you what I told DarkDragonMedeus. I'll just copy it here:

"I feel like a majority, if not all of you, missed the second half of the title.

This isn't just a Low 2-C downgrade, its a thread explaining my problems with Rosalina's Low 2-C justification.

The most extreme solution being proposed by the thread would be to downgrade her from Low 2-C, but there is a lesser extreme, and that solution is to improve Rosalina's AP justification with proper justification, because her current reasoning is frankly, wrong.

I am here to make the profiles more accurate, not inherently downgrade them."


And finally, to answer your points:

1. Well, for one, the guide not stating that she isn't protecting herself is irrelevant. She's the active party here, she's the one with the power to save them and just because the guide doesn't mention her needing to save herself, doesn't mean that she doesn't need the forcefield to survive. The truth of the matter is that she CAN protect herself, with the forcefield, but Mario and Peach don't have a forcefield, nor can they survive universal destruction - so she needed to go out her way to save them, and that's what the guide states.

Also, Rosalina is right next to Mario in the forcefield when she gives Mario her speech - and the guide mentions that Mario and Peach are in "Rosalina's calming presence". So she is definitely there with Mario and Peach.

Two, I am almost entirely certain you can pick and choose who scales to a specific feat. If one person doesn't scale, then no one should scale

Three, being a cosmic being and having cosmic awareness does not mean that Rosalina is inherently stronger than Bowser or Mario at all. That's like saying that being called a God in fiction means you are inherently stronger than every mortal in your series, which isn't true. Look at every god in Dragon Ball, for instance.

Hell, the fact Bowser was able to take away her stars from her, and that she needed Mario to stop Bowser sort of proves that she isn't.

And four, her scaling to Mario and the gang in every game which she has been included in and been shown and treated as an equal goes against the notion that Rosalina is above the others.


2. Rosalina "owning" Lumas means nothing, she became their surrogate mother in her backstory. That's like saying John Cena's mother is as physically strong as John Cena because as his mother, she "owns" him, it's ridiculous.

Rosalina creating Grand Stars, however, would be a legitimate feat. Where did you get this from anyway?

When Lumas die, they become stardust, which then reforms back into a different Luma over time, that's what Rosalina herself states. So where are you getting that she "creates" Grand Stars?


Okay Dino, listen man, if you can get me a scan saying that the Grand Stars are capable of destroying the entire universe as it says on Bowser's page, and then gave me a scan stating that Rosalina can create Grand Stars like you are saying - I'd be completely fine with Rosalina's Low 2-C rating, the justification would need to be edited though."

 

[Warren_Valion]

If anyone has any rebuttals that I didn't get to, can you send them to me, I can get to them now.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

technically there are teenagers in this thread </div>

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

I do think a downgrade may be in order with this

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

This sca mentions the Galaxy Reactor will cause the entire universe to collapse. The Galaxy Reactor is indeed powered by a Grand Star and it is because of the Grand Star that it can destroy the Universe. That's a start. I will look for the scan that mentions the Black Hole in Mario Galaxy 2 warping the fabric of Time and Space and reseting the universe. Rosalina does at least have this quote.

Oh, thank you for saving the Grand Star, Mario. These star people are my family...they mean so much to me.

Doesn't sound like enough, but I'll look for them and maybe DatOneWeeb might be able to find it as well.

Edit: Rosalina warps the Universe here too

 

[Genericstickman]

Bump

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I also agree with the OP. Personally I find that the Mario profiles in their current state are a giant mess.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Warren is talking to Dino about that, and her Low 2-C rating isn't going any time soon. There used to be better scans, but they came from websites that are down or something. But still, Grand Stars legit have multiple Low 2-C feats, and the only thing is proof that Rosalina does indeed create Grand Stars. She's been shown to have created Lumas, who can in turn transform into Grand Stars.

 

[Warren_Valion]

The debating about tiering on Dino's wall seems to have given birth to a parley thanks to Dino suggesting one.

Dino and I are both busy people, and we can not spend all day arguing about a video game character's tiering, so we are deciding to come to some sort of compromise.

I gave Dino my suggestion, and I await his response, if he agrees that great, if not, we will argue until we find a common middleground.


I will quote my suggestion, you can check on the link here to see the totality of both our arguments.

However, I suggest no one to respond on this thread because this is a debate between Dino and myself and thus other people derailing it is not welcomed.

Anyway, here is the quote:

"So this is my suggestion:

• Allow the downgrade of Rosalina to go through temporarily, just until you can find the appropriate scans that prove your argument. The ones saying that Rosalina can create Grand Stars.
• Then, garner all of the scans that make your argument (the Rosalina creating Grand Stars and the ones about the how Grand Stars can destroy the universe) and then put them all into one CRT to get Rosalina back up to her Low 2-C placment - this time, with proper justification.
• If everything is as legit as you say, and I am sure that it will be (as like I said you seem like a trustworthy guy) then I will agree, argue, and defend the notion that Rosalina is Low 2-C on your thread and in your place.

With this proposal:

• You will, eventually, get Rosalina to stay Low 2-C
• I get to conclude my CRT immediately
• We get to stop arguing with one another, and so we can focus on the things that really matter in our lives
• And the wiki will get a more accurate page concerning Rosalina's tiering.

Everyone wins.


Do you argee to these terms?"

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

No.

Also I love how people are saying Mario profiles are a mess even though Rosalina's profile has by far changed the least over the past several years.