Rimuru's abilities & speed revision (wn)

[Sisyphusx]

"Type 2: Characters whose nature is defined by lacking spatiotemporal features and being superior to them in nature"

This literally defines rimuru and veldanava, BDE-2 is solid
@Dread

 

[Catpija]

It don't, i'm just proving that he isn't dependent on time

okay yeah time to give infinite speed to everyone who have resistance/immunity to time manipulation

 

[ImmortalDread]

This literally defines rimuru and veldanava, BDE-2 is solid
@Dread

According to your logic, if I created a character in Rimuru verse who is superior to Rimuru, he is BDE type 2?.

No. It's BDE type 1. (In this case and not example one)

 

[Sisyphusx]

okay yeah time to give infinite speed to everyone who have resistance/immunity to time manipulation

Bruh what? That was for BDE-2, as to proving he is independent, lacks and is above time

Not on infinite speed
Don't Strawman

 

[Catpija]

Bruh what? That was for BDE-2, as to proving he is independent, lacks and is above time

Not on infinite speed
Don't Strawman

Aren't your whole argument for the infinite speed also the same

 

[ImmortalDread]

No, you did not prove he is independent, you proved he lacks. Wiki explicitly separate both

 

[Tatsumi504]

So you mean BDE-1 Rimuru >> BDE-2 velda!?
Well no, he is above velda existentially and have all the abilities of the verse that also includes BDE-2

BDE isn't an ability though, it's one's physiology. Nothing suggests it'll be in akashic records

 

[ImmortalDread]

BDE isn't an ability though, it's one's physiology. Nothing suggests it'll be in akashic records

He even used the argument that Rimuru has all skills and abilities in the verse. I think he does not understand that BDE is existence nature lol

 

[Sisyphusx]

According to your logic, if I created a character in Rimuru verse who is superior to Rimuru, he is BDE type 2?.

No. It's BDE type 1. (In this case and not example one)

He even used the argument that Rimuru has all skills and abilities in the verse. I think he does not understand that BDE is existence nature lol

No, my actual point was that he is above velda existentially (which I mentioned)


But no shit I agree with you now on BDE2 & inf speed

So he have BDE1
And do you agree on nep aspect 2 & 4?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

That's not gonna cut it
Rimuru >> the great spirit of time (concept of time)
How tf is he still dependent on time?

I can give you some characters who Existed before concept of time. But they are not infinite speed automatically. Well i don't have want to bring Whatsboutism.
Anyway what you are claiming doens't have anything to do with speed.

 

[Tatsumi504]

No, you did not prove he is independent, you proved he lacks. Wiki explicitly separate both

Not to mention even this still isn't enough

 

[Lesser_Goddess_Alexia]

the great spirits themselves are fragments of veldanava's imagination inserted within reality

The verse also contains fundamental abstract concepts

I wonder where this scan is coming from.

Can you tell me which chapter the scan came from?

 

[simply]

Hello (Yes this is my first message on my account but i am interested in this CRT so i decided i would comment on it).
I agree with BDE1 and NEP1 and i am neutral on the rest.
for rimuru's nep1
the vsbattle wiki standard for nep1 isn't for you to totally go non existent but it's for you to lack all features to exist. the verse contains type 1 concepts,information type 2 and even dualities,but they were formed due to the existence of the great spirits that holds everything,its laws and all
it wasn't said rimuru "survived" like it's a resistance it's he's "unaffected" the only thingg that is unaffected when all things including the great spirits collapse is nothingness,rimuru doesn't rely on conceptual existence and informational existence,I would also like to add the fact he can inject turn null to himself but that's an invalid argument,so the argument here is that rimuru literally can exist without any typical form of existence within the scope of reality (all things that governs the verse) and the only thing that remains is nothing.
it's sure nature 1,aspect 2 and 4

the same argument can render is beyond dimensional existence type 1.
but it's undeniable he have nep1

 

[Sisyphusx]

I wonder where this scan is coming from.

Can you tell me which chapter the scan came from?

I would have to find the chapters in the wn, it could take some time

Tho we know that velda made all the great spirits and fire spirit is also explained as a One of the fragments here.

 

[Lesser_Goddess_Alexia]

I would have to find the chapters in the wn, it could take some time

You just need to say what chapter it's in and I'll figure it out myself.

Since you're using it as a scan, you should know what chapter it's in. And it shouldn't take long to find it (especially since you're using it as a scan)

 

[Sisyphusx]

And it shouldn't take long to find it (especially since you're using it as a scan)

I have these scans from a long time
&

I would have to find the chapters in the wn, it could take some time

 

[Catpija]

I have these scans from a long time

you wouldn't happened to get those scan from a friend or website, right?

 

[Fixxed]

not necessarily, a being that exists before creation can still have its fundamental aspect because it does not depend on another existence for that, in the case of Tensura it is that its own aspect depends on a great spirit, this is the difference I'm putting, but if even with all this it's still not qualified then we leave this topic aside

Yeah because that you must proof rimuru is nonexistence being. Because exist after all creation is destroyed you just can have resistence alone

not really, a NEP character who doesnt have concept still "exist in information", and vice versa. thats why aspect exist, because not every NEP character truly "non-exist" in every aspect. (if) Rimuru lack of information and concept, then he is nonexistence in the scope of information and concept, but still "exist" in plot, history, etc.

Who says every NEP character truly nonexist in every aspect? Just proof rimuru is nonexistence being and he cam have NEP 1

 

[Catpija]

Who says every NEP character truly nonexist in every aspect?

You are implying that when you said NEP character cannot be exist when they can in another aspect.

Just proof rimuru is nonexistence being and he cam have NEP 1

He doesnt have a physical body, and concepts. thats already enough for NEP

 

[Fixxed]

You are implying that when you said NEP character cannot be exist when they can in another aspect.

Who says that?? I says NEP is given if that character is nonexistence being or in nonexistence state

He doesnt have physical body, and concept. thats already enough for NEP

He still have his fundamental aspect of rimuru. And still there when everything include concept is gone is not even a immunity that make you lack that, is must from the character it self not from outside. The character must lack of that, not resist that

 

[Sisyphusx]

you wouldn't happened to get those scan from a friend or website, right?

I remember reading that ancient magic one in the wn it was when they talk about primitive magic

@Catpija @Fixxed @Tatsumi504 y'all agree or disagree with BDE1?

 

[Catpija]

Who says that?? I says NEP is given if that character is nonexistence being or in nonexistence state

i said that you're "implying" that, not saying that

He still have his fundamental aspect of rimuru.

concepts are fundamental aspect, and he doesn't have those

And still there when everything include concept is gone is not even a immunity that make you lack that, is must from the character it self not from outside. The character must lack of that, not resist that

its already established in another thread that Rimuru unbounded and lacked Great Spirits.

 

[Catpija]

I remember reading that ancient magic one in the wn it was when they talk about primitive magic

they did, but did they talked about fundamental abstrack concept?

@Catpija @Fixxed @Tatsumi504 y'all agree or disagree with BDE1?

Neutral on that

 

[Lesser_Goddess_Alexia]

I remember reading that ancient magic one in the wn it was when they talk about primitive magic

Primitive Magic appears in chapters 246 to 248 and I can't find it.

So I'm going to assume you brought a fake scan.

 

[Rendynoc0unter]

So I'm going to assume you brought a fake scan.

 

[Lesser_Goddess_Alexia]

the great spirits themselves are fragments of veldanava's imagination inserted within reality

And this too is a fake scan.

Because Velda refers to Manas (Manas: Velda), not Star King Dragon Veldanava. And Veldanava was never clearly mentioned by name when telling the Great Spirit. It's more of a reference to a Holy Spirit or something like that.

You made the mistake of making a fake scan. Also, next time don't bring a fake scan.

 

[Sisyphusx]

Because Velda refers to Manas (Manas: Velda), not Star King Dragon Veldanava. And Veldanava was never clearly mentioned by name when telling the Great Spirit. It's more of a reference to a Holy Spirit or something like that.

You made the mistake of making a fake scan. Also, next time don't bring a fake scan.

i'll check all of my scans after this ong


@Fixxed
the vsbattle wiki standard for nep1 isn't for you to totally go non existent but it's for you to lack all features to exist. the verse contains type 1 concepts,information type 2 and even dualities,but they were formed due to the existence of the great spirits that holds everything,its laws and all
it wasn't said rimuru "survived" like it's a resistance it's he's "unaffected" the only thing that is unaffected when all things including the great spirits collapse is nothingness,rimuru doesn't rely on conceptual existence and informational existence, so the argument here is that rimuru literally can exist without any typical form of existence within the scope of reality (all things that governs the verse) and the only thing that remains is nothing.
it's sure nature 1,aspect 2 and 4

the same argument can render is beyond dimensional existence type 1.
but it's undeniable he have nep1

Btw @Thunderian do you agree or disagree with rimuru getting NEP1 & BDE1..?

 

[Lesser_Goddess_Alexia]

Btw @Thunderian do you agree or disagree with rimuru getting NEP1 & BDE1..?

I already cast my vote

 

[Peak]

Scaling above someone doesn't give you anything other than AP.

BDE isn't an ability though, it's one's physiology. Nothing suggests it'll be in akashic records

He even used the argument that Rimuru has all skills and abilities in the verse. I think he does not understand that BDE is existence nature lol

Rimuru has the same physiology as Veldanava in EoS

God: At the end of the series, Rimuru became a God/Supreme Deity. As a God, Rimuru rules over space-time, which makes him capable of doing things such as transcending space-time to reach the location he desires or rewinding time. Also having become a God like Veldanava and absorbing Yuuki and Velda, he has every ability in the series.

Anyway, this CRT should be closed, after seeing that it has several fake scans, this CRT has already lost all credibility, we can try things like NEP later

 

[Sisyphusx]

Anyway, this CRT should be closed, after seeing that it has several fake scans, this CRT has already lost all credibility, we can try things like NEP later

Ohk, he can also get BDE1
& aspect 2, 4 in NEP1

 

[Tatsumi504]

Rimuru has the same physiology as Veldanava in EoS

Now that's all i needed to see but right now it only suggests BDE 1

 

[Tatsumi504]

Before this is closed, lemme just say I'm not sure about the NEP at all.

Like i said previously, you can't eat your cake and have it. He already has TD 1, became a god like veldanava and thus most likely has the same physiology as him but therein is were the problem lies.

By nature his physiology and TD already makes him independent of the great spirits thus there is no way to deduce that these spirits disappearing automatically means that aspect of himself they govern disappears/ becomes nonexistent as well. You can't have both as having one contradicts the other.

Point is if you give him NEP 1 nature 2 & 4 for surviving even without the great spirits it would assume he's bound to/ dependent on them.

 

[Peak]

Before this is closed, lemme just say I'm not sure about the NEP at all.

Like i said previously, you can't eat your cake and have it. He already has TD 1, became a god like veldanava and thus most likely has the same physiology as him but therein is were the problem lies.

By nature his physiology and TD already makes him independent of the great spirits thus there is no way to deduce that these spirits disappearing automatically means that aspect of himself they govern disappears/ becomes nonexistent as well. You can't have both as having one contradicts the other.

Point is if you give him NEP 1 nature 2 & 4 for surviving even without the great spirits it would assume he's bound to/ dependent on them.

thanks for the opinion, let's leave NEP for another time and we can discuss this more properly

 

[Lesser_Goddess_Alexia]

It would be funny to see Imaginary Space become a Non-Existent space because the Great Spirit of Sky which is the fundamental aspect of space has disappeared at the end of space-time.

 

[Peak]

It would be funny to see Imaginary Space become a Non-Existent space because the Great Spirit of Sky which is the fundamental aspect of space has disappeared at the end of space-time.

considering that the imaginary space is also a complete void, everyone who survived inside after Rimuru devours must resist conceptual manipulation for being able to exist without the great spirits


Wanks aside, I'm going to request that this topic be closed

 

[Sisyphusx]

thanks for the opinion, let's leave NEP for another time and we can discuss this more properly

If you are leaving NEP, then Discuss what?

 

[Peak]

If you are leaving NEP, then Discuss what?

Nothing, so the thread must be closed, as nothing was accepted, NEP should have a specific CRT for it to be easier to talk about it, talking about it here really won't bring anythingNEP should have a specific CRT for it to be easier to talk about it, talking about it here really won't bring anything

 

[Kalrz]

INTRO

So in this thread i'll try to give rimuru (wn) some abilities and upgrades


First we need to know about the great spirits and veldanava to scale rimuru


THE GREAT SPIRITS AND VELDANAVA

It have been shown that the world and all of its functions exist because of the great spirits or you can say that they are the fundamental concepts of the verse and the great spirits themselves are fragments of veldanava's imagination inserted within reality


veldanava created the world using turn null

the world was still without form, which brought about the existence of the great spirit of light and darkness which are dualities of the tensura verse then the great spirits of light and darkness birthed the spirit of time which is the only reason the world was even able to move thus other existences started to sprout.

Veldanava is qualitatively above all the great spirits as they are created by him and are only fragments of his imagination.

(Note : it's very obvious but i'll still mention that Veldanava created space-time and not just time as you could think it was only time because there's only mention of great spirit of time but there was literal nothingness before veldanava created the verse or space-time continuums)


as shown veldanava existed before the concept of everythingness, in a void of nothingness. He existed before it and is unbounded to the concept of time-space as it was created by him and they're only a fragment of his imagination.


RIMURU, BEYOND DIMENSIONAL EXISTENCE TYPE 2

"Beyond-Dimensional Existence on this wiki refers to the state of being of characters who exist outside, and are independent of, space and its dimensions"


"Type 2: Characters whose nature is defined by lacking spatiotemporal features and being superior to them in nature. These characters aren't necessarily superior to spacetime on every level, but just within the scope which they are shown. Due to transcending this spacetime they are immune to Spatial Manipulation and Time Manipulation of it. They furthermore inherit any benefits of Type 1"


As we know that Veldanava lacked spatiotemporal features naturally as he existed before the concept of time and is superior to them in nature


Rimuru surpasses veldanava who superiorly existed as an entity without the great spirits, Rimuru who transcends/scale to veldanava should get beyond dimensional existence type 2 as by nature veldanava is a greater existence than the great spirits


NON EXISTENT PHYSIOLOGY TYPE 1

"Nonexistent Physiology refers to the ability to lack certain aspects of ones existence, to paradoxically 'exist', yet lack certain identifiable traits of existence, or exist outside of a particular scope of 'existence'."


"Material Nonexistence: The character doesn't exist in a conventional sense. In terms of binary, this would be a 0, where existence is 1 and nonexistence is 0. In simple terms that means that the characters simply lack the aspect, in the same way that a stone lacks a soul."


The great spirits are beings which form the very aspect of reality and the verse of tensura

They are type 1 concepts and are the conceptual fundamentals of the verse and it's existence [all explained above]

The world without the great spirits arrive to complete nothingness as it would be end of all concepts that forms the reality of the verse and Rimuru existed without these very fundamental concepts of existence so he should get NEP type 1


(Note : The verse also contains fundamental abstract concepts. Laws and information)


INFINITE SPEED


When Rimuru was sent to the end of space-time, the world was there but it was pure nothingness without the great spirits thus he can survive without the concept of time

EDIT :

The above paragraph doesn't mean that he have infinite speed but it mean that he is independent on concept of space-time


So that makes rimuru independent on and unbounded by space-time.
He is also above the concept of space time as him being above the great spirits

So now we have
Rimuru is NOT dependent on space-time
He is above the concept of space-time

This should give rimuru infinite speed, as infinite speed is to go across Any distance without regard to time or without being bounded by time simply in no time

Speed = distance/time
rimuru is above the concept of time itself and so he will not need any time to travel a distance as he is also independent on time
So we gret the value of time as "none" or 0
So, speed = distance/0
covering a distance in 0 or no time
qualifies for infinite speed
So, rimuru qualifies for infinite speed as we already got the time value as 0 or none

CONCLUSION

So because of all the points mentioned above Rimuru should get these upgrades on his profile :

1 - BDE-2 beyond dimensional existence type 1
2 - Resistance to space-time based abilities
3 - higher dimensional manipulation
4 - NEP type 1 (Aspect - 2, 4)
5 - Infinite speed


Agree : @Dread (with NEP1 & BDE1) @Tempestdragon6 (with NEP1) @LoganKroos (with NEP1, BDE1 & NO.2) @EldemadeDityjon (with NEP1) @Catpija (with NEP1)

Disagree : @Thunderian
@Fixxed @Tatsumi504 @Catpija


Neutral : @Peak @Tempestdragon6 (except NEP1) @LoganKroos (with HDM) @EldemadeDityjon (with BDE) @Catpija (with BDE)

Agree to neutral

 

[Catpija]

Agree to neutral

So are you agreeing with the OP or neutral?

 

[Sisyphusx]

Nothing, so the thread must be closed, as nothing was accepted, NEP should have a specific CRT for it to be easier to talk about it, talking about it here really won't bring anything NEP should have a specific CRT for it to be easier to talk about it, talking about it here really won't bring anything

Hmm ohk