Rimuru Tempest vs The White Queen

[GLHF22]

Thats what i want to say, he lack energy to Rule over Time and Space, since his Reactive Evolution is applicable in battle, pretty sure if he will get acausality if someone trigger it

 

[Elizhaa]

With his time warp ability, and transcending time doesn't always mean type 4 acausality as far as i am aware, otherwise everyone who has immeasurable speed would have it which i don't think is the case.

A character just needs to have a different system of causality than the normal verse.

 

[DontTalkDT]

In her influence that is infinitely spreading over both the human world , how does her influence acts, it is something intangible or not?
The text did say it was destroyed in this: Even doing both of these things

It's not tangible, it is really just her influence over the world. It just spreads out throughout the universes as a consequence of the spiritual big bang the white queen caused.

It could be destroyed by the Colourless Little Girl, mentioned Unexplored Class tailored specifically to counter the Queen. The Colourless Little Girl has an ability that does nothing but gather all the Queens influence and then destroy it. In other word she was created with a hard counter against that aspect of the Queen.

 

[Elizhaa]

Rimuru has Non-Physical Interaction.

I am pretty sure he could destroy it with this. Rimuru simply needs Ciel analysis to get this ability

• Space-Time Continuum Attack: Velgrynd's ability that she gains after her Ultimate Skill got upgraded into Flame God Cthugha. It is capable of exceeding time and space to strike the opponent, even ignoring things like Veldora's Parallel Existence and Multiple Existence.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Every supernatural being in the verse has some non-physical interaction and they can't do it. We are talking about literal influence here, not some mystical energy or something.

Also, it's kinda spread out throughout 2 universes, so quantity wise destroying it woul never happen.


I am not quote sure what you wish to do with that ability. The White Quenn is acausal, so attacking her in something besides the present won't do anything.

 

[GLHF22]

• Space-Time Continuum Attack: Velgrynd's ability that she gains after her Ultimate Skill got upgraded into Flame God Cthugha. It is capable of exceeding time and space to strike the opponent, even ignoring things like Veldora's Parallel Existence and Multiple Existence.
  
  Basically that attack will hit you even if it only hit your clone attack will transcend time and space to reach your location

Example : Naruto use 1000000000 clone and the attack will hit everysingle of him even if you only attack one of his clone

 

[The_Causality]

For now i see nothing that prevent WQ to rewrite his past and GG no re.

 

[GLHF22]

i already said that if someone trigger it he will get acausality, but yeah Rimuru seems have speed advantage Via 10tmilion times FTL thought, Info analys and more

 

[GLHF22]

@ Causality im still pissed that you ignore Thought accel when we discuss between Yukari and Rimuru

 

[The_Causality]

i already said that if someone trigger it he will get acausality, but yeah Rimuru seems have speed advantage Via 10tmilion times FTL thought, Info analys and more

don't think things work like that, if WQ rewrite, he just disappear, he cannot get a resistance which just make him wiped out instantanously.

 

[GLHF22]

Dont Ignore Tihought Accel pls

 

[GLHF22]

as i said above he only lack Energy to Rules Over Time and Space His state of existance didnt really change his EOS just confirmed the feats rather than Evolving his Resistance, the fact that he already have Prototype of skill that makes him transcend time and space before EOS, he just lack Energy to use it

 

[GLHF22]

Sorry even if im OP but im not neutral since previous thread is outdated and CP said "make new thread if you interest"

 

[The_Causality]

as i said above he only lack Energy to Rules Over Time and Space His state of existance didnt really change his EOS just confirmed the feats rather than Evolving his Resistance, the fact that he already have Prototype of skill that makes him transcend time and space before EOS, he just lack Energy to use it

I will trust CP's judgment about this so i assume that he can't resist to Rewrite gg. so he will get "poof" before using stuff like Thought Accel

 

[Elizhaa]

For now i see nothing that prevent WQ to rewrite his past and GG no re.

Fate Manipulation Resistance.

Since we don't how her technique work so it is best to assume to be like Fate Manipulation.

 

[Schnee_One]

@Nedge If we don't know how it works we don't assume what ability it occupies.

 

[The_Causality]

You know that Fate Manipulation = Modify the future

Rewrite the Past = Modify your past

One just manipulate future event which don't modify your present self but modify the future action of the present self, the other Manipulate the past who can make you no longer exist, he don't manipulate present to make action, but the past to make past action which your present self can't nothing if you aren't Acausal/TPI

 

[Elizhaa]

Fate Manipulation can also include Modify your past.

 

[The_Causality]

Fate Manipulation can also include Modify your past.

Causality Manipulation to be exact

and anyway it not the case for Rimuru's fate resistance.

 

[THOK_AST_THOK]

@GLHF22 Creating energy which is the primordial energy that created the world, said energy changed his appearance, if it changed his appearance isn't it plausible it gave him acausality? Obviously it was interring with his body.
I mean how did he become a God that rules space-time if turn null wasn't doing that? Considering he rules space-time, and can transcend time and reverse time, it gives evidence to what i am saying.

He didn't become a god, that was just Yuuki mentioning how impossible it is for someone to have a power that can just ignore space-time. Rimuru's clause of ruling over/controlling over space-time also doesn't hold much weight in either direction as it's a clause he already had by the time he has Azathoth.

GLHF actually have a point in this case. It's rather unclear on exactly when Rimuru became acausal. As the part about him sleeping for an eternity doesn't change the state of his existence, only his energy count (which in effect, cause the change for his powerlevel), his physical appearance (which also happened whenever he or any monster for that matter has a massive boost in energy source), and one of his skill being completed due to how much time has passed. Quite practically nothing from that change

The argument could go both ways. Neither GLHF can prove when exactly Rimuru gained his acausality nor you can prove his energy accumulation actually change his state of existance because by then it'd be all speculation.

 

[LightSShinning]

Is a shame the blood sign has so few supporters if i can move my lazy ass i would have read the novel it look pretty cool. The main Antagonists is actually the main reason i want to read it

 

[DontTalkDT]

Basically that attack will hit you even if it only hit your clone attack will transcend time and space to reach your location
Example : Naruto use 1000000000 clone and the attack will hit everysingle of him even if you only attack one of his clone

Ok, but aside from summoned avatars there really is only 1 Queen at a time, so not really that useful here.

@Nedge: Assuming he resists it due to fate manipulation is nonsense. One can stretch lots of abilities to do any number of things, but fate manipulation is definitely not the first choice for changing the past.

In principle it is quite simply what it says it is: the ability to change the past. That needs no deeper mechanism than timetravel. That aside it most likely is connected to her law manipulation, as I already said.

The argument could go both ways. Neither GLHF can prove when exactly Rimuru gained his acausality nor you can prove his energy accumulation actually change his state of existance because by then it'd be all speculation.

Burden of proof is always on the one claiming that a character has the ability.

 

[Schnee_One]

White Queen probably wins for the reasons given, but adore Rimuru even have a win con?

 

[Elizhaa]

To be honest, I think Rimuru Tempest should resistance to Causality Manipulation and Fate Manipulation. I believe the Resistance scale Dagruel

In fact, Cook is a unique skill and in the verse, only Ultimate Skills can affect an Ultimate Skills users as explained by Guys during the Millim supposed mind-control by Clayma.

Cooks, I believe Cook was the "only" technique that could affect both "Fate" and Causality, I believe in one of Shion's fight.

I finish the WN series and fate was only mentioned from Cook Skill.

 

[Elizhaa]

White Queen probably wins for the reasons given, but adore Rimuru even have a win con?

I see no prove on how it would affect Rimuru except his clone as Rimuru's clone are technically have both Rimuru's consciousness and body while at the same time being having own consciousness and body from multiple existences. Also, depending on the techniques, he could absorb if it is energy based like in his Geld or sword slash based like in this Hinata's second fight, where he analyzed the nature and get resistance.

 

[The_Causality]

I let DT arg for WQ (even if this is almost done)

Once again you are false Nedge, You see no proof? the fact is Rewriting the past of Rimuru will absolutly affect/kill him, multiple existence or ,not, he is gonna "poof" if she rewrite

And nope, it isn't energy based according to the profile

 

[Elizhaa]

I let DT arg for WQ (even if this is almost done)
Once again you are false Nedge, You see no proof? the fact is Rewriting the past of Rimuru will absolutly affect/kill him, multiple existence or ,not, he is gonna "poof" if she rewrite

And nope, it isn't energy based according to the profile

I think I am right, this is roughly how it works. I made sure to finish the series to be more accurate with the fight

• Multiple Existence: Leaving his nucleic core within his main body, Rimuru can create multiple clones, in other words, it doesn't matter what happens to those clones as long as his core (soul) is within the main body no harm can truly be done to him. Rimuru fights by leaving his main body in imaginary space while sending out clones. By the end of series Rimuru also made Mikami Satoru one of his clones, thus he can't die as long as Mikami Satoru, who exists in another universe, exists, and vice versa.

People got to proof to show it can affect Rimuru's true body, not just a clone. I see no proof that she can affect something truth body with a similar attack to Space-Time Continuum Attack as we don't even know it work, we can't just give extra abilities to unexplainable actions.

 

[The_Causality]

^This is isn't even a proof that he resist to his past self being rewrited. her move can affect both the clone and the true self.

Well my vote go for the white queen.

 

[Elizhaa]

The question is can she affect true body from clones as this is the way he fights, we don't know without speculations and we can't just say it does. Also, she won't know this body is clone anyway and likewise the clones can powerful as the main bodies and can use all the abilities if Rimuru wishes it.

While he might not have Acausality, in this way, the time change effective could be nullified especially with the fact he could get resistance in the fight from his Reactive Evolution.

The Causality, I am seriously all in if she can win given the feats, but speculations should be not an argument.

 

[The_Causality]

Hmmm It's not a speculations tho, the fact is, she rewrite the past of Rimuru, everythings related of Rimuru will go "poof" it's a basic logic of time paradox, if you kill rimuru in the past, everythings rimuru has done will disappear, the clone too because he exist because of Rimuru's existence

Already answered the time change stuff, he just instantanously disappear, no time for him to get a resistance before getting wiped out (your assumption is also a speculation tho).

Anyway, i'll just wait DT explain some detail he know the verse much more than me.

 

[Elizhaa]

The Causality, unless the attack can affect Rimuru's true bodies from Multiple Existence. It won't work to affect Rimuru's true bodies one needs a high-end Space-time attack with feats or abilities with the feats that he, she, or it can.

We still have feats for the same ability, if a character does not have the feat we can't just give it to her or otherwise it would similar to No Limits Fallacy (NLF).

 

[The_Causality]

The Causality, unless the attack can affect Rimuru's true bodies from Multiple Existence. It won't work to affect Rimuru's true bodies one needs a high-end Space-time attack with feats or abilities with the feats that he, she, or it can.

Yes, it affect the true body since altering the past of Rimuru alter everythings related on Rimuru.

Space Time attacks =/= Paradox by rewriting your past self mostly in the case of the space time attacks in Tensei Shitara, yes he don't resist.

 

[Elizhaa]

Dontalk said it was not explained how it works. What I am questioned is that the abilities have no feat besides the basic time change, not its nature. Also, abilities like Multiple existences is rare in fiction, if there are no feats for especially a varying ability, we can't say this ability would affect work for something unique.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

I mean legit the only ability wq can win with is one that it's unclear she will even use, what exactly stops rimuru from incap her due to his knowledge of her abilities that he gains through precog + info analysis?

Or better yet absorb her and gain her abilities?

 

[Elizhaa]

Good points, Celestial Pegasus. I think she only has that one win possible win conditions as well here.

 

[ZackMoon1234]

So Rimuru has more ways to win?

 

[Elizhaa]

So Rimuru has more ways to win?

Yes, via absorption, sealing, void hax, reactive evolution, precog, inform analysis, etc.

 

[ZackMoon1234]

Is it safe to vote for Rimuru FRA Hmm

Rimuru FRA

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Slime FRA.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Slime FRA