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Rimuru Tempest vs Meng Hao (again)

Milly Rocking Bandit said:
Oh lord.
Okay, what does Meng start with?
Click to expand...
Probably either scan the opponent with Divine Sense, and attack the mind/soul from there, or just let his aura out from the start to crush their body/soul.
 
At least in the billions.

Maybe in the quadrillions, but that one is a bit more complicated, so we're still trying to figure out how it should work out.
 
That bodies Rimuru's resistance, but considering the Rimuru he's fighyinh is just a projection while he's in the Imaginary Space, I don't believe it matters unless he has the range to effect him. Rimuru also has passive fear, madness, empathic, sleep, and radiation manipulation. Along with social influencing that forced either 1500,000 people or 350,000 people not to fight him.
 
He should resist all those "mind" passives, and radiation should be countered just by Regenerationn, I guess. Isn't social influecing just charisma and stuff?

He does have Karmic Hexing, and could use it to perform a Karmic Severing that erases the projection from existence, and kills the true self as a result.

Severing someone's Karma with Karmic Severing would result in their complete and utter death. It didn't matter if the victim had numerous clones; any memories that existed of the victim in anyone's mind would be blotted out. By erasing the image of the person in everyone's mind, even if that person still lived on somewhere, they would be dead.
 
Meng Hao has Passive Law, Fear, Explosion, Soul Crush, Statistic Reduction, Power Nullification, Durability Negation, Paralysis, Teleportation negation, Regenerationn negaton, Charisma, Madness that affect even time, Mindhax, Soulhax.
 
Yea with Karmic Hexing Meng already killed in the verse someone by killing his Illusory Projection, so that won't work. Rimuru won't be safe, like at all, with his projection......
 
This discussion again? Oh no... look, the different Rimurus are completely seperate full existences. That's completely different from being an Avatar, i.e. a "fake self that stands in for a true self", but here it's two true selves that can exist independetly from each other instead. That's two completely different concepts. But eh, this is a WN Slimeverse match which I already said I don't plan on participating in and I am not going to say more about this (I am unsubbing again after this), but at least read the arguments from the previous attempt of a match before rehashing the previous thread's arguments again.
 
Clones in ISSTH can exist independently as well, there are even magics for creating second "true selves", but there's still Karma between them. There'll obviously be some between Rimuru and the projection, specially if Rimuru will just keep creating them if they get destroyed.

Karmic Severing erases you from the minds of everyone who knows you, altering Natural Law in a way that it actually kills you. It doesn't matter if his main self is hiding somewhere, "even if that person still lived on somewhere, they would be dead".
 
That's completely irrelevant. It dosen't just works on "avatars", it can also do so on Clones, those you know of, etc. In the verse we literally have a clone casually walking around while his true body is outside the Multiverse. Even just knowing the person is enough for Karma to activate, let alone clones of Rimuru. Them being independant or having their own consciousness/soul? Irrelevant for Karma.
 
From what i see His range is just Bilions Kilometers, if he can really can affect Rimuru's Other self he should atleast have Universal Range, Rimuru Resist 4D Mind Hax so he cant mess with Rimuru mind, Rimuru can use Nihility Barrier to counter Meng Aura or Develop Another counter measure Via His RE and Ciel, also Meng cant see any trace of other Rimuru since he can Cut connection between himself(Cut Soul Corridor), then Rimuru can use either Turn Null or Absorption to kill Meng
 
His attacks don't reach that far, but Karma connections seem to have unlimited range, and those are the ones "transmitting" the effect, I guess.

If he cuts the connection between him and the projection, it could probably work, but only if he does it before Meng uses it (he might need to know about it?). Even then, how will he actually attack if one of his "avatars" get destroyed?
 
Rimuru has his Absolute Defense, so every attack will need to be able to pierce an endless space with no time, and doesn't get weaker, etc etc.

But what Neo said, gonna stay out of this match.
 
Oh, nice stuff that Absolute Defence. Damn gotta finish that WN. Anyway I digress.

Karma dosen't care about that. It dosen't need to "travel" some distance to "link itself" with a target, no. From the beginning, from the very moment Rimuru made that clone/projection (or even before), there's Karma between them.

So Absolute Defense or not, endless space with no time or not, dosen't matter to Karma.

Dammit I'm getting spoiled about Rimuru's powers with these VSthreads T_T
 
Also Rimuru has facing the same threats i.e. Chrono Saltation, Space-time continuum (4D) Will swallowed him and those who connected to him yet he cut that connection and save His subordinate from getting swallowed, not only that but he was able to hide himself from Voice of the World
 
Meng can "steal luck from the Heavens", so he has that as well. Depends on the "potency" of Rimuru's, I guess.
 
@GLHF, Karma is basically a "connection" that everyone has with everything. If you just meet someone, there's a bit of Karma between you two, even if it's a rather weak connection. The connection between a "projection" and the "true self" in the other dimension would obviously be quite strong. For example, Allheaven's connection with his will, even though he was outside the Vast Expanse (the universe the story takes place in):

"Seal all Karma connecting you to the starry sky of the Vast Expanse!" he said, his eyes glittering with light as cold as the deepest winter night. "Henceforth, your true form may exist outside of the Vast Expanse, but you may not step even half a pace inside. Neither your body nor your soul may enter. As of this moment, my will has replaced yours!"
From what I can tell, it should somewhat similar be that "Soul Corridor" that Rimuru has, I guess.

Against clones, the Karmic Hex is pretty useful, since you can just use it to kill the person completely, no matter how many places they exist in with other forms. You erase their Karmic connections with the world and erase them from the minds of everyone they know.

Severing someone's Karma with Karmic Severing would result in their complete and utter death. It didn't matter if the victim had numerous clones; any memories that existed of the victim in anyone's mind would be blotted out. By erasing the image of the person in everyone's mind, even if that person still lived on somewhere, they would be dead.
That happens because of a mechanic in ISSTH, yes. If you don't exist in people's minds anymore, or if they believe you to be dead, Natural Law just kills you as a result.

Furthermore, a person with absolutely all of their Karma Threads destroyed would find it impossible to stay alive. If everyone in the world, and especially everyone who knew that person, believed them to be dead, then it would influence natural laws in such a way... that it would actually kill them.
And, yes, Meng does resist Power Null, since his first key.
 
Masayuki trying to respond Hinata's request and panicky rubbing his hands.
But――

As Masayuki was charmed by Hinata, he tripped by a pebble and like a skilled mime he fallen down on his feet.

As the result…...

He felt a soft sensation on his right hand.

And he felt hair smoothly tickling his cheek……

A sweet smell that made his mind astray stimulates his nose.

(Wh-why it becomes like this……)

To the rest of the event, Masayuki can't see the reality for a moment.

(Or rather, this feeling on my right hand, it's like touching a finest quality cushion, it can't be……)

That's right.

Masayuki stumbled and just like that he pushed down Hinata.

Carefully, his right hand was groping Hinata's plump breast.

Even to this extent, he's a lucky pervert.

However, it was Masayuki who feared that the result will be frightening.

When Masayuki tried to stand up and making an excuse while his face turning pale ――

(Huh? What just now……)

Masayuki realized that something passed over his head.

He felt a shock as if something passed through the back of his head.

(Oh! From where did I get sniped!?)

However, it was somewhat different from Masayuki's imagination.

Masayuki realized that it was the shockwave that arrived late, not the attack.

In other words, the attack passed with a little difference when Masayuki fell down.

If Masayuki didn't get tripped by the pebble, his life would be gone.

ÒÇîTch. Impossible―― for you to evade my assassination!?ÒÇì

A person appeared in front of Masayuki and co, raising his astonished voice.

A man who is dressed in black priest outfit, pure white wings sprouted from his back.

He's the leader of the Executioners, Arios.

Masayuki was confused due to the appearance of an unfamiliar man. He's not able to catch up with the situation completely.

However, Venom who was guarding Masayuki immediately responds to the situation.

ÒÇîWell done, as expected from Masayuki. I have been vigilant, but sorry!

I couldn't grasp any presence of that guy at all. Masayuki, you noticed him well.ÒÇì

Saying those words, Venom came in front of Masayuki.

Without noticing that Masayuki who heard it was turning pale.

In fact, Venom was always scanning for any presences while guarding Masayuki.

It didn't mean he let down his vigilant, but he couldn't catch the enemy's presence at all. In other words, the man in front of him was a very dangerous person.

ÒÇîI don't know what your purpose it, but if you want to lay your hand on Masayuki, I'll be your opponent. It's alright, Masayuki?ÒÇì

ÒÇîEh? Ah, yes――ÒÇì

Masayuki nods instinctively.

In the first place, Masayuki thinks that's unreasonable for him to fight the enemy.

If Venom wanted to take his place, there's no reason for him to refuse.

And, to Masyuki who was still confused, he heard reliable voices.

ÒÇîMasayuki an-chan, we also here! We will show growth here!ÒÇì

ÒÇîIf Masayuki-san watching, we can be relieved too!ÒÇì

ÒÇîOnii-chan, please see Alice and co's efforts!ÒÇì

Masayuki worried about how to reply to the children.

He was wondering of letting the children to fight in this trip.

(But, the children are actually stronger than me…… It can't be helped right!)

In the end, he decided to approve them.

ÒÇîWell, how long do you intend to groping my chest?ÒÇì

Masayuki jumped back panicking at that word.

ÒÇîI-I'm sorry. It-it's not on purpose……ÒÇì

Masayuki can't make a good excuse, but his word is interrupted by Hinata.

ÒÇîI understand. On the contrary, I want to thank you. That man was aiming at me right?ÒÇì

That said, Hinata was thanking Masayuki.

(Well, I didn't aim for it …… I feeling relieved of what happened though…..)

He wanted to say that, but Masayuki felt that destruction was waiting for him if he said it, he had no choice but to kept silent.

Actually, Arios' target was Hinata.

The reason was one.

It was because Yuuki used to be worried about Hinata before.

Although she was not special existence anymore, he was still anxious.

He thought he should deal with her quickly as she was not a person worthy enough for him to kill.

However, as he knew Reiner and co's plan, he tried to assassinate Hinata during the gap.

Velda declared that don't aim at the royal capital, he didn't want to interfere as much as possible but――

Reiner failed.

Therefore, he thought that he would assassinate her in an instant and immediately withdraw.

However, He failed.

Masayuki's luck had thwarted the timing of Arios's plan.

ÒÇîIt's can't be helped for things to be like this. Sadly, I'll have everyone dead!ÒÇì

ÒÇîShut up! I'm strong, you know? We have Masayuki here too!ÒÇì
~ Chapter 222
In this excerpt, Masayuki (his luck comes from a Skill, and with Food Chain Rimuru gets all his subordinates Skills) uses his luck to save Hinata from a sniper bullet. What's really important about this is that Hinata, Venom, the kids, or Masayuki himself couldn't sense Arios's presence. Even the most fodder in Tenslime possess a Skill called Magic Sense, and to describe it in someone elses words:

Magic Perception in Rakudai is nothing like in Slime World.
Trackless Step pretty much works by moving and breathing in such a way that you become a neutral stimulus that doesn't draw the attention of the opponent because, as the technique very well puts it, our brain only focuses on some of the information we perceive because we can't process all of it.

Magic Perception works by calculating the interaction of magic particles with light, sound and such to get an idea of the world beyond your senses. There's no blind spot to slip through either because all of the information is being perceived at all times all at once without focusing on any specfic part of it. The characters even have information manip resistance because the data overload would kill a human but they take it casually.
What's more important about this is that it was capable of forcing someone with an Ultimate Skill (Ultimate Skill>Unique Skill, btw, that's why they have so many resistances) to miss. Not gonna discuss them beng 4D right now, but Ultimate Skills>Laws of the World, which governs multiple universes. Masayuki is a Hero, so this isn't inconsistent whatsoever.

However, in contrast to his attitude, there's no gap in his stance. With his cut claws already regenerated, Venom's consciousness focused on Arios.
That's natural.

From the exchange just now, Venom was convinced that Arios was an overwhelmingly powerful person.

(Hee! As I expected, there's something that I can't perceive even inside of where my surveillance are.

Certainly, he's higher ranking than me……

But, it's not because he's fast that I can't see his movement.

That means that it was due to his ability that I can't detect him from the start, I'm sure my thinking isn't wrong――

He's stronger than me, no doubt about it, but it's not like I can't win.

In that case, it's so convenient. I will kill this guy and take that power!)

While fighting, Venom felt laughter almost spilled out from his mouth.

Even if he defeats low ranking enemies, he can't obtain more power.

Therefore, he thought this time was a chance for him. It's a chance for him to defeat a high ranked enemy and obtained more power.

(I'm lucky. Masayuki is here, this guy will become a high-quality food for me!)

If Arios' strength is comparable to the high ranking people of Rimuru's closest aides――That's on Diablo's class―― and if Arios has an isolation ability, Venom would have no chance to win.

But, Venom noticed that Arios has no such ability.

Now that Venom was able to percept Arios' movement, it probably meant that he couldn't use that ability.

Arios was not an unreachable existence, Venom concluded so.

Currently, Masayuki's ability had increased Venom's luck.

It also exerted another effect on Venom, his strength increased unbelievably.

He can evade an inevitable attack for some reason, and attack that unlikely to hit was able to hit.

The evidence was the two poison claws stuck on Arios before.

In this lucky state, he believes that poison that shouldn't work will have an effect.

If that's so, there's no need to hesitate.

Venom believed in himself and Masayuki, and was going to challenge Arios who's stronger.

Masayuki stands with his arms folded while watching Venom's fight.

Honestly, rather than looking at it, he can understand the fight to some extent from the sparks that occurs once in a while.

It's not a speed that can be followed by eyes, Masayuki's just pretending that he's watching.

(Or rather, I can't do anything like that you know.)

Because it's no longer inside his area of understanding, the feeling of fear has weakened.

Since Masayuki decided to entrust the fight completely to Venom, Masayuki thinks about what's going to happen later.
Here, Masayuki makes poison that shouldn't work, work, increases someone elses luck with his own (didn't bold it, wasn't really important in a fight), dodge an undodgable hit, force a critcal hit, and make an unlikely attack hit.
 
That doesn't sound too impressive, really.

Like, evading attacks you can't perceive is pretty standard in ISSTH, people much weaker than Meng can sense danger from millions of kilometers away, while the enemies were under a gigantic illusion that covered a sea bigger than a star, and even dodge attacks that way. Sensing invisible people is also super easy, even if they're invisible to other people who can see through invisibility.

Like I said, Meng "steals luck from the Heavens". People who are blessed by the Heavens have some ridiculous luck, like Shangguan Tianyou:

"The number one Chosen in the Outer Sect on the south bank. Shangguan Tianyou!"
"According to the rumors, he has a powerful sword spirit body, and is the reincarnation of some almighty sword cultivator. For some reason, the heavens are guilty, and showered him with countless blessings. When he was three, he was walking down the road and happened to find an ancient sword; when he was seven, a baby Crimson Cloudbeast fell out of the sky and instantly accepted him as its master; when he was thirteen, he acquired a golden light shield. That is why his name is Tianyou ("The Heavens assist")!"
By the level Meng is in, he can literally fuse with the Heavens, and make the will of the Heavens do whatever he wants.

As far as he could tell, this was the most powerful deva he had ever encountered. Although the wave of his finger didn't seem to be drawing upon the will of the heavens, Bai Xiaochun was sure… that he would be completely incapable of avoiding the blow!
It was as if… the heavens were conforming to this deva's will!

And that was exactly what was happening! Deva Shapes Heavenly Will! This was the ultimate level within the Deva Realm!
However, as the black-robed Cultivator was still about three thousand meters above the city, he suddenly stopped moving. A profound look appeared in his eyes, as if he were in a position of ultimate authority, as if the great Dao of the Heavens gave him the right to look down on all living things.
As he floated there, it seemed like the Heavens and the Earth were fused together, inseparable. And yet, at the same time, it was as if they were separated, congealed into his own Dao, making the will of Heaven impossible to expunge.

It was as if everything in the world existed because of his will.
Like, if he had some reality warping level luck I'd get it, but I don't think stuff like tripping and dodging an invisible blow aren't going to cut it here.
 
It doesn't matter if it's not that impressive. The thing is, does Meng Hao have a counter to this? If not, Karmic Threads will just miss, or not take effect.
 
I showed you, steal luck from the Heavens, people blessed by the Heavens are ridiculously lucky, he can literally fuse with the Heavens and make it do whatever he wants, etc.
 
That's not a resistance, that sounds like getting fire to fight fire. Also, I explained it's more than dodging an invisible blow. There's multiple excerpts there.
 
Karma Threads can't miss. Something already in place can't miss. It's already in place. His Karmic Hex dosen't "make" Karma bonds (that's a Writ of Karma), it just uses them already existing Karma threads.

Also as the quote Sped showed you above, they have Probability Manipulation way before the level Meng reached. And guess what? Karma works even against them. You can't avoid something already in place, not even 1-A beings in the verse could.

But anyway as Sped showed, peopble blessed by the Heavens are super lucky, and Meng Hao steals luck from the Heavens (he also has Supernatual Luck). Add to that Probability Manipulation.
 
The thing is Masayuki is just normal human level with no perception skill like he's around 10-B and the enemy they were facing is like Continent level + by scaling. I don't know how that will interpret. Plus his kendo skill level is just hobby level and he beat bandits and monster using that. It's confirmed that he will always grant critical hits and he was able to gain achievements by accident. There's also that his luck is so high he will make people misinterpret his action in a positive light like when he forfeit a match they will think that his enemy is weak and wants to only challenge Rimuru giving him High Charisma despite his intent to leave the match because he's scared.

Just imagine Rimuru use that but it's an upgrades version of the skill. Most likely he will be a pain to hit even if you can reach Rimuru, he still have probability manipulation + supernatural luck
 
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