Rider vs Lancer

[Creaturemaster971]

Two heroes renowned for their speed and bloody rampages go head to head in a hypothetical Grail War

The Lion of Troy vs The Child of Light

Both summoned in Ireland. Battlefield is a rugged Irish coastline like this:


Uninhabited of course

Neither have knowledge on each other's abilities (though that can change to make it more fair)

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

ChuChu stomps via being 4-A and MFTL+

 

[Creaturemaster971]

''Frantically rolls for Kirby ChuChu in FGO''

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Creeping Comment that Strikes with Relevance: Gae Bump

 

[XenoBreaker2803]

I'm leaning toward Achilles considering how he is comparable to Karna and can apparently punch with the force of a NP. If he uses his dual field I definitely give him the win. Though Cu stand a chance if he get Gae Bolg off.

 

[RegisNex1232]

Probably Achilles 6/10 times as they're close enough in terms of stats and C├║ can bypass the invincibility with his Divinity.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Achilles won't use DAL since its only purpose is to let the opponent bypass his AA which Cu does anyway. Being in Ireland puts Cu above Diamuid who is >= King Arthur skillwise. Using Saber as the benchmark.

Achilles > Siegfried = Lancelot > Saber with Cu going somewhere between Lancelot and Saber

Achilles was also stated by two Rulers to be the only equal to Karna who as we saw many times, is better than Siegfried, scoring dozens of would-be-fatal wounds if not for AoF. It should be noted that Achilles was in a 1v2 fight and still handled both of them until Vlad came along (aside from one arrow, Atalanta was irrelevant and switched to Chiron almost immediately).

Soaring Spear gets countered by AK, DK makes the speed gap even larger, Achilles carries a sword which he can dual wield with DAL like a pro. CU only wins with Barbed Spear but he won't survive long enough to use it seeing as Achilles has the advantage in strength, speed, skill, and has quickly overwhelmed other Servants who are stronger, tankier, more skilled and almost as fast as Cu. Achilles 8-9/10.

 

[PloxFGM]

1. "Being in Ireland puts Cu above Diamuid who is >= King Arthur skillwise."

2. "Achilles > Siegfried"

Fate Dojo Q&A:
Q: Cu Chulainn and Diarmuid are both Lancers, but who will win in an honourble battle? In their first engagement with Saber, Cu Chulainn was being pressed hard, but Diarmuid was able to pressure Saber. So... Diarmuid is stronger.

A: Diarmuid received more backup from his Master (magical energy supply), thus in terms of pure firepower, Diarmuid was stronger. In Japan, both of them received 0 geographical boost (from the cultural sphere), but if the stage was in Ireland --- Cu Chulainn would have an edge.

1.Being in Ireland gives both of them a stat boost and due to Cu's fame in Ireland he'd get an even higher stat boost to make up for his shitty master. And that would definetly put him above Arthur summoned in Japan. Also it doesnt even say Cu is straight out weaker(in terms of skills) than Diarmud.

2. Atleast according to the TypeMoon Wikia, Achilles was fighting equally with Siegfried. (Considering I dont have the option to look up "Fate/Apocrypha Volume 4, Chapter 2" rn, I cant confirm whether thats true)


In the end Cu still has runes, which can create barriers strong enough to defend against high level NPs and he can force his opponent into honorable combat, if Achilles tries to kite him from his chariot.

We also have no Idea who has the advantage in strength here, because in the end all of Cu's stats and his two extra NPs are a mystery, when summoned in Ireland.

Regarding their strength, Cu, in Ireland, is above(in terms of pure firepower) Diarmuid, who, if summoned in a country he doesnt get a stat boost in, already has B-Rank Str., but Diarmuid would also get a stat boost, if they were in Ireland.

In comparison Achilles has a B+ in Strength.


Due to both having "Battle Continuation A" I would say inconclusive, because even if Achilles were to outclass Cu in skill and speed, Cu would still have the ability to use Gae Bolg after technically dying as a last surprise attack.

 

[RegisNex1232]

C├║ in Ireland is a big ???, don't know why you would use that. But for now Achilles has the advantage so far.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

@Plox

Achilles hit Siegfried multiple times but couldn't get past his AoF since his strength didn't have the super special A rank. They were equal because they couldn't harm each other, one because of AoF, the other because of skill.

Runes that can block NPs doesn't mean much when Achilles just rams him with planet at super super speed. Forcing Achilles into honorable combat doesn't matter since its two guys who want to have a good fight, neither is running at all plus Cu has his own chariot in Ireland so they would just make it an aerial battle.

Strength advantage stays with Achilles regardless of the fame boost. Fame isn't the ridiculous boost that you seem to think it is, Cu would get a rank up in stats at best.

Nasuverse parameters are ten points per rank. Cu is going from 40 to 50 at best while Achilles is still 40-80.

Achilles does outclass Cu in skill and speed. Even if he gets hit by a surprise Gae Bolg (he won't be), he just turns around, kills the dead on his feet Cu, and dies a few mins later for a win.

 

[RegisNex1232]

Siegfried couldn't hurt Achilles at all lol, Andreias Amarantos is a thing. Not that it really matters here.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Yeah but he never even hit Achilles hence why Gordes was saying to use Balmung to wipe out Achilles most likely with Atalanta too.

Speaking of AA, the fact that two Rulers (who know what both Achilles and Karna are capable of) think that he can fight Karna equally despite not having his signature lolnope should really say something seeing as Karna is still running the most BS defense in the franchise.

 

[Creaturemaster971]

What about the fact that Chulainn's Dog tends to fall back on Gae Bolg pretty quickly if he's losing ground?

 

[AnonymousBlank]

You mean the one where he needs to get into a pose while everyone he used it against just stood back and waited for it to go off?

 

[Creaturemaster971]

Both are in character.

I feel like Achilles is enough of a showoff and a gentleman to let Gae Bolg go off if ChuChu tried it. Especially if Cu told him it was his strongest attack.

Would Cu's Divinity still apply enough after the Spear is cast, or would it not be able to bypass Achilles's invulnerability?

 

[AnonymousBlank]

All attacks from a divine character count as divine even if the weapon or spell isn't divine in nature, e.g. Chiron's arrows. Just don't see Cu getting pushed back so much and just going "Yo, you wanna see my best attack?" If he does for whatever reason and Achilles agrees to it, then yeah Cu wins that round. I just doubt that is going to happen often if at all.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Cool match

 

[Creaturemaster971]

When he couldn't figure out how to disarm Archer, he immediately prepared to use Gae Bolg, specifically saying "Are you prepared to face my strongest blow?"

When he realized that Saber's invisible sword was too difficult to counter, he prepared to use Gae Bolg. He even taunted her by offering to call it a draw if she surrendered rather than facing his attack.

He falls back on it fairly quickly if his other advantages don't cut it, and Achilles's honor and blood knight-itude would probably make him intrigued enough to try withstanding it.

It's not a guarantee that Achilles will let him live long enough to try it, but it's at least a chance for Chu to win.

@Iapitus Thanks!

 

[AsianAntics]

Achilles FRA.

He has higher strength, speed, skill, and has beaten tougher opponents than Lancer. What's the speed gap between these two? Achilles is faster but by how much because that can affect the results ever more than the advantages he already has now. For now, Achilles 7-8/10.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

I know this is one hell of a necro, but imma vote Achilles FRA as well

 

[AnonymousBlank]

@Asian

Speed difference is like this.

>Atalanta has A rank AGI in base

>Agrius Metamorphosis is an A rank ME enhancement

>Achilles at 30% of his full speed was still notably faster in cqc.

 

[AsianAntics]

@anonymousblank

Ah. Well... that's unfortunate for Lancer then.

 

[Solacis]

As much as I love Cu, I have to give it to the ex-shut-in.

Achilles FRA.

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

Achilles FRA.

Also on a sidenote: IIRC Siegfried vs Achilles was a giant stalemate. Due to Siegfried lacking divinity he couldn't hurt Achilles without harming his heel. However, Achilles couldn't hurt Siegfried with regular attacks either due to how tough he is. Achilles would has to resort to using NPs to do actual damage.