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Rick and Morty | Tier 1 Upgrades
- Thread starter ShionAH
- Start date
- Status
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What's wrong with the possibly 6D?
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You dont do two possibly three but you give a nonexact "likely higher"
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Explain why these are only x2.
Dragonite007
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If is thousands of times , shouldn't be 2000x?
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Because:
- It's been like this for years, anytime we have an unspecified plural amount (aka hundreds, dozens, etc) we only take the lowest end, given the vagueness of said amounts, in order to be safe rather than sorry.
- The wiki only takes the lowest possible option to avoid baseless assumptions.
Hundreds* but yoy got my point. Let's not be pendantic over such small points.
CodeCCLL
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Also when we talk about “thousands of years” when expressing or calculating the ages of characters numerically, we consider it as 2000+, so I think the same way.
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"Its already accepted and shown to us that the universe has at least two possibly three extra infinite spatial dimensions within it."
I don't think we agreed that those dimensions are inside the universe; they just exist in the general cosmology.
@Qawsedf234 Can you please restate your stance regarding the extra dimensions in R and M?
While I do agree that higher spatial dimensions exist somewhere in the Rick and Morty verse, I don't think what's presented is enough to say that they are in each "universe."
"Fifth-dimensional" beings being able to "fit" inside the universe doesn't count as sufficient evidence. This is a common trope in fiction.
"With Schleemy pants also supporting that these dimensions are superior." How so?
Being able to perceive a fourth-dimensional time being also doesn't count as sufficient evidence.
As for heaven/afterlives, more context about the dimension is needed for a proper assessment.
ShionAH
He/Him- 17,163
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- Thread starter
- #94
There is nothing outside the universes, it is empty. So it would be in the universes especially when there is 5th and 4th dimensional beings inside the cosmology. I alao dont get how this matters since either way Rick scales to the cosmology.
How is 5th dimensional beings inhabitating the universes just "a trope in fiction" how the hell is that even an argument firestorm? They dont come down there, they live there. There is many montages of the cosmology and in NONE OF THEM there is "outside dimensions" that exist outside the universes.
Its just a really weird argument in my opinion
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In my view, since a 5D space can contain an infinite number of 4D spaces, then each universe could just have a non-substainal 5th axis and be contained within it.
However, if those universes are depicted as tiny orbs within a larger space, then that larger space would likely need to be fully 5D, since the 4th Dimension is time itself as a directional axis.
This isn't a counter argument afaik. The 5th Dimensional beings would just be able to cross between universes, but unless they're decently large they wouldn't need to shrink to fit anywhere. It's why a 11-D string can be smaller volume wise than an infinite lower plane.
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Quick question, are we giving Rick Prime a page any time soon?
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Also I agree on 6-D, possibly 7-D. I see nothing on 8-D.
Universes should be at least 4-D, then you have the 5-D Ailens that attacked both Beths, the object that "infinitely" go into spatial dimensions so 6-D, then finally the "paradimensional" realm, so 7-D. Assuming it means a dimensional transcendence.
Universes should be at least 4-D, then you have the 5-D Ailens that attacked both Beths, the object that "infinitely" go into spatial dimensions so 6-D, then finally the "paradimensional" realm, so 7-D. Assuming it means a dimensional transcendence.
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Bump
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My hands are full, so if I can see a redone vote count; I know Firestorm and Qawsed commented, but haven't really analyzed which side they picked. Nor are their names listed in the OP.
ShionAH
He/Him- 17,163
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- Thread starter
- #106
@ActuallySpaceMan42 and @Sir_Ovens agreed with the CRT, Fire Storm had some concerns on how it would work and Qawsed responded to them. His wording kinda implies he favors my proposal but it seems more like he is neutral.
So 2 Agreements, 1 Neutral and Fire Storms vote is still on hold (his concerns seemed to be explained/debunked by Qawsed)
2-0-1 would be the Votes.
Edit: Fire Storm also AGREED with the cosmology being this high, only having concerns on Rick scaling to it.
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Then the cosmology upgrades I suppose I will agree, I will remain neutral on the scaling until more voices are heard.
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I would need to see more interactions of these beings to get a better picture. Otherwise, I agree with Phoenks for now.
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Btw where is the evidence these are type 1 concepts I still don't see anything beyond just plot manipulation applications. Just because the Meta Realm is an abstract (conceptual) one does not mean everything there is inherently Type 1 concept stuff. I don't get the logic behind that.
And to the staff that accepted this, if you really do agree this is type 1, can you tell me how this fits the standard? I'm very curious to know. Thank you in advance.
And to the staff that accepted this, if you really do agree this is type 1, can you tell me how this fits the standard? I'm very curious to know. Thank you in advance.
ShionAH
He/Him- 17,163
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- #111
It is conceptual and abstract, beyond the cosmology and was shown to have the ability to survive the erasure of the cosmology. It is literally concepts that are unbound and not affected by the Rick and Morty Multiverse.
They are so far and above it that Rick cannot travel it with his portal gun, it sees RM as fiction and etc.
You are being really desperate right now.
They are so far and above it that Rick cannot travel it with his portal gun, it sees RM as fiction and etc.
You are being really desperate right now.
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Just because the entities themselves are "conceptual" in nature does not mean their powers are inherently Type 1 conceptual abilities.
They are just using plot manipulation. Plot Manipulation by itself justifies everything you've said. Plot is naturally unaffected by things within the "plot."
The only evidence you have is that the realm is an abstract one, and that the beings inside are similarly abstract—based on one line of Rick saying "this conceptual piece of shit." Nobody actually directly alters or affects any concepts in the entire episode, which is literally the basis of conceptual manipulation as an ability. Their abilities are limited to warping reality in specific ways through plot manipulation, not through conceptual manipulation.
Telling me I'm desperate is insane considering you're using such a miniscule line of dialogue ("conceptual piece of shit") to try and wank the verse like this lmao.
ShionAH
He/Him- 17,163
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- Thread starter
- #113
Being able to manipulate Plot can still be more than Plot Manipulation. Let me break it down
Meta energy beings are stated to be conceptual and abstract twice, they are shown to be code like structures that underline reality.
Meta energy and beings are beyond the cosmology and not directly connected to it, to the point where its implied they see it as fiction. Josh also states meta energy itself can remain after the destruction of everything
Plus Rick resists Meta Energy itself, which is why his resistances contain the entire Meta stuff
there ya go
Yes, because Rick is pretty fricking clear and it is supported by Josh. You literally keep tryin to argue against my points by saying "uhh its only said once/twice" which is just stonewalling rather than an actual argument. Many Tier 1 verses get huge upgrades due to single statements, its common.
Anyways, this got accepted and I'll apply it when the profile is unlocked
Meta energy beings are stated to be conceptual and abstract twice, they are shown to be code like structures that underline reality.
Meta energy and beings are beyond the cosmology and not directly connected to it, to the point where its implied they see it as fiction. Josh also states meta energy itself can remain after the destruction of everything
Plus Rick resists Meta Energy itself, which is why his resistances contain the entire Meta stuff
there ya go
Yes, because Rick is pretty fricking clear and it is supported by Josh. You literally keep tryin to argue against my points by saying "uhh its only said once/twice" which is just stonewalling rather than an actual argument. Many Tier 1 verses get huge upgrades due to single statements, its common.
Anyways, this got accepted and I'll apply it when the profile is unlocked
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This is abstract existence, not conceptual manipulation.
Being conceptual =/= being able to manipulate concepts. This is basic stuff.
Yeah because the realm they exist in is one of the narrative/plot itself. This is literally just a result of plot shenanigans. It has nothing to do with conceptual stuff.
It is resistance to plot manipulation. Correct. That's what he has on the page right now.
Are you going to actually substantiate your claim that they are manipulating concepts or are you just going to refer to them being abstract and hope that covers you?
ShionAH
He/Him- 17,163
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- Thread starter
- #115
Rick says previous leon is conceptual due to being Meta, Josh states that on Meta reality everything is Meta making everything conceptual and abstract
Then we see Meta Energy being capable of warping and affecting the Meta Layer and Meta Characters themselves
Rick resists meta energy that can do that, pretty simple really.
Are you going to give any kind of meaningful argument or are you gonna keep repeating that "its plot only!"?
Then we see Meta Energy being capable of warping and affecting the Meta Layer and Meta Characters themselves
Rick resists meta energy that can do that, pretty simple really.
Are you going to give any kind of meaningful argument or are you gonna keep repeating that "its plot only!"?
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What you're describing is non-physical interaction and plot manipulation by being able to interact with a non-physical, plot-based realm, and non-physical, plot-based beings. Being "conceptual," again, is not sufficient for conceptual manipulation.
Nobody in the episode ever affects or manipulates concepts.
You keep ducking the main point of my posts and not addressing the concern that they literally don't showcase conceptual manipulation.
Here, I'll just say it again for you in really big, obnoxious text. This time, you can't possibly ignore it! I'll even make it an even brighter color so it burns into your eyes!
Please provide actual evidence of them manipulating concepts. Being abstract/conceptual does not mean you inherently have conceptual manipulation. "Conceptual" as it is used in the episode has no connotations to the meaning of Conceptual Manipulation on this wiki.
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Because that's literally what it is referring to. They are supposed to be representations of plot gimmicks. For example, Previous Leon is the gimmick of "previously, on" and has the plot ability to show a flashback of the narrative.
There's also the Protago-Nick guy, whose thing is making someone the protagonist. And a few others. That's their whole thing.
No "governing essence" is ever showcased, let alone manipulated.
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Dragon Ball supporters moment
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