Rick and Morty | Tier 1 Upgrades

[ShionAH]

Since none of the Rick and Morty supporters are doing anything, I took the matter in my own hands. Now since I am done with the profiles general look lets try Tier 1 and maybe some hax stuff.

Spoiler: Accepted and Added

The Cosmology Additions

Rick's Plot Resistance will be upgraded to Resistance to Conceptual Manipulation (Type 1), Information Manipulation (Type 2)

Rick would have Resistance to Hacking, this is because of him implying the only person that was able to hack his technology was Evil Morty

Rick would have Resistance to Information Analysis and EP, this is because Rick's being able to use Morties to hide themselves and Rick implying he could make himself invisible to even other Ricks (who can scan the infinite multiverse) by using a jumper cable and five morties

Rick would have Technology Manipulation due to him being able to disrupt and disable Evil Morty's technology

Rick will have Immesurable speed with Time Crystals since he can amplify his technology to shoot through time

Agree 2 (@Sir_Ovens, @ActuallySpaceMan42)

Spoiler: Cosmology

Universe

---

Its already accepted and shown to us that the universe has atleast two possibly three extra infinite spatial dimensions within it. This is further supported by fifth dimensional beings being able to fit inside the universe. With Schleemy pants also supporting that these dimensions are superior.

I don't know why @Phoenks is so focused on the supporting feats but I guess thats what happens when someone is trying to "debunk" for the sake of "debunking" lol.

We know Morty can perceive Schleemypants who is fourth dimensional, so technically this would make the dimensions Morty can see 4. And mean the Temporal Dimension is a "dimension Morty can see" so it would make Universes 4+2 at the very least.

Counter Arguments

"They can be hurt by humans how are they fifth dimensional??"

First of all @Phoenks, you have yet to give me any kind of scene where they are touched or hurt by Humans. They are only ever killed by Beth, Space Beth and Summer who were using Rick's suits and technology to kill them and the last one is killed by the combination of Space Cruiser and Rick's gadgets. Them being killed by Space Cruiser is a feat for Space Cruiser rather than an antifeat for the Aliens.

"Uhh they kicked them once!"

So? They have literally combat suits that is giving them amplification in stats. This is a feat for Rick's technology.

TLDR

Universes would be 6D or possibly 7D. Unless a good counter argument is shown for this.

Multiverse

---

About the Multiverse, first of all it would contain atleast infinite 6D possibly infinite 7D structures inside of it. Other than that the Multiverse also has higher dimensions within it.

By Rick's word there are "paradimensional planes of existences" in the Multiverse. Paradimensional is not a word but by chopping it up we can learn what Rick means.

"Para" meaning "further and beyond" or as @ActuallySpaceMan42 pointed it out "beside". In this context beyond/further makes more sense than beside, this is due to afterlife and heaven very obviously being above and beyond the normal universes and it being beside them is just wrong according to the episode.

"Dimensional" meaning "measurable extents of some kind, such as length, width, height...". This would mean Heaven is beyond the universes dimensionality, making it 7D possibly 8D. Since the Multiverse contains this it'll also be on that level.

TLDR

Multiverse would be Infinite 7D possibly 8D

• Universe: 6D, likely higher

Agree: 10 (@ActuallySpaceMan42, @Sir_Ovens @Floxiaaa, @Aolphl, @Rockysbalboa @SweetDao, @StrymULTRA [On 6D], @TheOrangeGuy09, @ZeedKZ, @DarkDragonMedeus [Neutral on Rick Scaling], @Firestorm808 [Neutral on Rick Scaling])

Disagree: 2 (@Phoenks, @Golden_Void)

Neutral:

• Multiverse: 7D likely higher

Agree: 7 (@Floxiaaa, @Aolphl, @Rockysbalboa, @TheOrangeGuy09, @Sir_Ovens, @ZeedKZ, @DarkDragonMedeus [Neutral on Rick Scaling])

Disagree: 2 (@Phoenks, @Golden_Void)

Neutral: 1 (@ActuallySpaceMan42)

Staff who agree with Rick scaling to the cosmology; @ActuallySpaceMan42, @Sir_Ovens, @Qawsedf234 (I think??)

Staff who are neutral towards it; @DarkDragonMedeus, @Firestorm808 (Currently?)

 

[Aolphl]

I agree for now except this:

Meta Reality is beyond the cosmology of Rick and Morty I'd guess it makes it 7D possibly 8D at least.

I'm neutral on this.

 

[Rockysbalboa]

Looks nice I agree

 

[SweetDao]

So first of all it is already accepted that Rick and Morty cosmology has atleast 5 infinite spatial dimensions but since its plural it can be scaled to possibly 6 infinite spatial dimensions

That part seems fine.

How? Well in Season 6 Episode 1 It is stated that there are Aliens which are 5th dimensional. Unlike Time Cops, they are ONLY hurt by weapons from Rick. His suits, space cruiser and his gadgets. So they have genuinly no anti-feats

Wouldn't that mean the fifth dimension is also "seeable" by human beings? Or maybe I'm getting too deep into it. Was there a mention that those things diminished their dimensionality?

 

[ShionAH]

Wouldn't that mean the fifth dimension is also "seeable" by human beings?

Beth, Summer, Space Beth had Rick's tech so it doesn't matter and Rick himself can see it as stated in the comic the only person who shouldnt have been able to see it is Morty but I dont think there is any actual thing that implies Morty could see it lol.

 

[CodeCCLL]

Rick would have Resistance to Hacking, this is because of him implying the only person that was able to hack his technology was Evil Morty

Do I really have to explain that this is not resistance? Just because Evil Morty is the only person who was able to hack Rick's technology in Rick & Morty doesn't mean another Super Genius can't do it.

 

[ShionAH]

Do I really have to explain that this is not resistance? Just because Evil Morty is the only person who was able to hack Rick's technology in Rick & Morty doesn't mean another Super Genius can't do it.

That Super Genius would have to prove he has high hacking skills to be able to hack into Rick's technology. He says ONLY Evil Morty who literally absorbed the intelligence of thousands upon thousands of Super Geniuses was able to hack it.

 

[CodeCCLL]

That Super Genius would have to prove he has high hacking skills to be able to hack into Rick's technology.

Well? Even if Rick were the Super Genius with the most enhanced technology in fiction, this wouldn't be a resistance. This is no different than claiming that every type 1 abstract entity resists every non-abstract ability.

 

[ShionAH]

Well? Even if Rick were the Super Genius with the most enhanced technology in fiction, this wouldn't be a resistance.

Yes it would, if many people failed to hack Rick's technology and specifically only EM who absorbed the intelligence of thousands of Ricks was able to hack it then it is a damn good resistance.

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

• Tier 1 Upgrades:

So first of all it is already accepted that Rick and Morty cosmology has atleast 5 infinite spatial dimensions but since its plural it can be scaled to possibly 6 infinite spatial dimensions

Just wanted to note that in the thread 5D was accepted @Qawsedf234 disagreed with 6D, saying that 5D perfectly meet Rick's statement

 

[SweetDao]

Just wanted to note that in the thread 5D was accepted @Qawsedf234 disagreed with 6D, saying that 5D perfectly meet Rick's statement

I think at that point it's a matter of subjectivity. I'd say that the statement would imply more than just "two" but then, nothing can really prove or disprove that idea.

 

[ShionAH]

Just wanted to note that in the thread 5D was accepted @Qawsedf234 disagreed with 6D, saying that 5D perfectly meet Rick's statement

He said that due to Time being lower dimensional.

"Though the feat is still 5D and not 6D, as in the Rick and Morty cosmology time is a 4th dimensional construct as shown in the episode A Rickle in Time"

I'll edit the OP and remove Temporal stuff since Qawseds argument makes sense.

 

[CodeCCLL]

Yes it would, if many people failed to hack Rick's technology and specifically only EM who absorbed the intelligence of thousands of Ricks was able to hack it then it is a damn good resistance.

Is there any proof that Rick's technology has any securitywall against hacking?

 

[ShionAH]

Is there any proof that Rick's technology has any securitywall against hacking?

His statement implies it has been tried to be hacked before but failed.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Maybe I'm missing something so correct me if I'm wrong.

For dimensionality, we define it as Spatial Dimensions plus one Temporal Dimension. The first three Spatial Dimensions are Length, Width, and Height—these are visible to us. Rick refers to spatial dimensions beyond these, ones we can't see normally suggesting a 4th Spatial Dimension and potentially a 5th. Including the Temporal Dimension, this would result in 4+1 (5D) or possibly 5+1 (6D).

Additionally, "Para" can mean 'beside,' 'alongside,' or 'related to,' indicating a separation from normal dimensions without implying superiority. Also, as far as I know, we don't consider Multiverses as quantitatively superior to their contents.

 

[ShionAH]

For dimensionality, we define it as Spatial Dimensions plus one Temporal Dimension. The first three Spatial Dimensions are Length, Width, and Height—these are visible to us. Rick refers to spatial dimensions beyond these, ones we can't see normally suggesting a 4th Spatial Dimension and potentially a 5th. Including the Temporal Dimension, this would result in 4+1 (5D) or possibly 5+1 (6D).

Edit: But if a universe has 2 more spatial dimensions wouldnt that make it 6D?

Additionally, "Para" can mean 'beside,' 'alongside,' or 'related to,' indicating a separation from normal dimensions without implying superiority.

Beyond makes more sense in this statement. Atleast that seems to be what Rick means since he is talking about a plane of existence thats basically the after life indicating its beyond rather than alongside. With context beyond makes more sense

Also, as far as I know, we don't consider Multiverses as quantitatively superior to their contents.

Yeah, I dont think I did that iirc

Btw any Opinions on PnA?

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

I agree with @Aolphl

 

[ShionAH]

Actually wait.

Rick says there are spatial dimensions we cannot see, meaning there is atleast 2 more or 3 more.

3D + 1D = 4D for normal Universes.

3D + 1D + 2D = 6D for Rick and Morty Universes?

I am kinda confused by dimensions now... would a universe having atleast 2 extra spatial dimensions make it 6D?

 

[CodeCCLL]

His statement implies it has been tried to be hacked before but failed.

I think it's really important when we're talking about resistance to hacking, whether we're talking about the fact that Rick can't be hacked because of the complexity of his technology or whether there's actually a securitywall against hacking, but okay, maybe I'm overthinking it a little bit.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

I think it's really important when we're talking about resistance to hacking, whether we're talking about the fact that Rick can't be hacked because of the complexity of his technology or whether there's actually a securitywall against hacking, but okay, maybe I'm overthinking it a little bit.

Tbh in both cases it grants resistance to hacking if it is literally shown that normal hacking doesn’t work in the show.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

I'm neutral on the Paradimensional stuff then, though I can see the 5D, possibly 6D Universe.

Rick's Plot Resistance will be upgraded to Resistance to Conceptual Manipulation, Information Manipulation, Reality Warping, Time Manipulation, Existence Erasure, Causality Manipulation.

Don't really agree with this. Mostly because it's a resistance to Reality Warping situation. Reality Warping can encompass any ability, such as igniting someone on fire or erasing them from existence.

If you resist Reality Warping, then the Reality Warper will not be able to set you on fire at all. However, if the fire manifests but the heat is resisted, that specifically falls under fire resistance. The key distinction is that resisting a power capable of producing various other effects is not the same as resisting the specific effects themselves.

Rick would have Technology Manipulation due to him being able to disrupt and disable Evil Morty's technology

I mean, he's not manipulating the tech on purpose, it's a side effect of his technology shaking everything to hell.

Rick would have Resistance to Hacking, this is because of him implying the only person that was able to hack his technology was Evil Morty

Neutral, other abilities seem fine though.

 

[Aolphl]

Rick says there are spatial dimensions we cannot see, meaning there is atleast 2 more or 3 more.

Since Rick's statement is "plural", you can talk about at least 2 more spatial dimensions, 3 spatial dimensions are just a possibility.

3D + 1D = 4D for normal Universes.

3D + 1D + 2D = 6D for Rick and Morty Universes?

Have you included the temporal dimension too in this equation?

 

[ShionAH]

Don't really agree with this. Mostly because it's a resistance to Reality Warping situation. Reality Warping can encompass any ability, such as igniting someone on fire or erasing them from existence.

If you resist Reality Warping, then the Reality Warper will not be able to set you on fire at all. However, if the fire manifests but the heat is resisted, that specifically falls under fire resistance. The key distinction is that resisting a power capable of producing various other effects is not the same as resisting the specific effects themselves.

I am confused on what you mean, you disagree with the entirety of it? Let me re-pitch it.

Rick is able to resist Meta Fictional Energy, which has shown to be able to control and governs the plot, reality, narrative, causality, time, space, existence, information and concepts. Shouldn't Rick resist all of this?

I mean, he's not manipulating the tech on purpose, it's a side effect of his technology shaking everything to hell.

Yeah its accidental, but he is Rick I am sure he could have created similar shockwaves specifically to disable technology. I dont know your point kinda holds.

I can see the 5D, possibly 6D Universe.

Wouldn't the universe be 6D possibly 7D due to them having atleast 2 possibly 3 extra spatial dimensions?

Have you included the temporal dimension too in this equation?

Yeah 1Ds are Temporal.

So Rick and Morty Universes would be.

3 Spatial + 1 Temporal + 2 Spatial or possibly 3 spatial + 1 Temporal + 3 Spatial. Which makes them 6D possibly 7D

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

I am confused on what you mean, you disagree with the entirety of it? Let me re-pitch it. Rick is able to resist Meta Fictional Energy, which has shown to be able to control and governs the plot, reality, narrative, causality, time, space, existence, information and concepts. Shouldn't Rick resist all of this?

Ok, let me break it down this way.

• Character A has Reality Warping.
• Character B has resistance to Reality Warping.
• Character C has resistance to Fire Manipulation.

Reality Warping is a very, open-ended ability. Through Reality Warping, technically Character A can teleport, change people's size, etc.

So Character A uses their Reality Warping to set Character B on fire. But, since Character B is being set on fire, via Reality Warping, he simply, isn't. This does not give Character B resistance to Fire Manipulation, because the fire was never created.

On the other hand, Character A uses their Reality Warping to set Character C on fire. Character C does not resist Reality Warping, so it successfully sets them on fire. However, Character C resists Fire Manipulation, therefore, although the Reality Warping worked, they didn't get burned.

The same goes for Plot Manipulation.

Yeah its accidental, but he is Rick I am sure he could have created similar shockwaves specifically to disable technology. I dont know your point kinda holds.

I mean I guess if we count EMP's as Technology Manipulation, this should count too.

Wouldn't the universe be 6D possibly 7D due to them having atleast 2 possibly 3 extra spatial dimensions?

True.

 

[ShionAH]

The same goes for Plot Manipulation.

Problem I have with this is Rick does not specifically resist Plot Manipulation. He resists something called "Meta Energy" with Meta Energy encompassing, governing and being able to manipulate all these things I mentioned. So this is more of a character resisting a verse specific ability that has many different abilities within it.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I am kinda confused by dimensions now... would a universe having atleast 2 extra spatial dimensions make it 6D?

I mean, I thought you already knew it?

If a universe has 4 spatial dimensions and 1 time dimension, then it'd be 5D as it's 4+1D.

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Problem I have with this is Rick does not specifically resist Plot Manipulation. He resists something called "Meta Energy" with Meta Energy encompassing, governing and being able to manipulate all these things I mentioned. So this is more of a character resisting a verse specific ability that has many different abilities within it.

It's the difference between using Power Nullification to nullify someone's spell before it is cast, or after it is cast. One makes it restricted to magic, the other makes it more open to nullifying any supernatural ability within reason.

 

[ShionAH]

It's the difference between using Power Nullification to nullify someone's spell before it is cast, or after it is cast. One makes it restricted to magic, the other makes it more open to nullifying any supernatural ability within reason.

I personally dont see how Rick resisting meta Energy which governs all these abilities within it is not enough but sure. So you disagree with the resistances? All of them? I dont think CM and IM are within your argument since they are different

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

I personally dont see how Rick resisting meta Energy which governs all these abilities within it is not enough but sure. So you disagree with the resistances? All of them? I dont think CM and IM are within your argument since they are different

I just personally don't see it that way. He's not resisting Causality Manipulation, he's resisting a specific type of energy that can cause those effects.

If he fought someone who manipulated Causality Manipulation through Magic, a Non-Meta form of Energy, then he wouldn't resist it.

 

[ShionAH]

I just personally don't see it that way. He's not resisting Causality Manipulation, he's resisting a specific type of energy that can cause those effects.

If he fought someone who manipulated Causality Manipulation through Magic, a Non-Meta form of Energy, then he wouldn't resist it.

I mean by thag logic many verses with verse specific resistances would be downgraded right?

Btw Cm as in Conceptual manipulation. Since Rick makes it clear the meta stuff are conceptual and completely shape the reality like a code of information

Which ones do you specifically disagree with? I'd hope you atleast agree with some lol

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

I can understand it being resistant to Conceptual since Meta Energy is Conceptual as well as Narrative. I'll wait for what other staff have to say on the rest.

 

[ShionAH]

You convinced me, I removed the rest. Vote counted too.

I'll wait for what other staff have to say on the rest.

Could you ping some? Please

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

@DarkDragonMedeus @Elizhaa @Catzlaflame @ByAsura @Phoenks

---

Are any of you interested in giving your opinion on this?

 

[Phoenks]

@DarkDragonMedeus @Elizhaa @Catzlaflame @ByAsura @Phoenks

---

Are any of you interested in giving your opinion on this?

Honestly, not particularly. I don't really agree with Tier 1 R&M based on the presentation of this stuff.

Like 5th-Dimensional aliens somehow being confined in 3-D space and being interact able by 3-D entities.

Meta Reality entities being conceptual Type 1 beings is also just ridiculous wank. They just have meta-fiction abilities. What the actual **** is that about?

I'm already saying too much. I'm really not that interested in this right now.

 

[ShionAH]

Uhh what? This is hardly an anti feat let alone a argument since Rick literally says the space is atleast 5d in the universe. Did you just completely ignore they only interact with them through technology? Wtf? This is such a shitty argument, thankfully I can ignore it since you arent staff

Rick literally says they are conceptual, beyond reality and shape it the way they please. Thats textbook ******* concept type 1

 

[Phoenks]

You want me to bite? Fine then., I'll go against your CRT for real and stop this BS from passing.

Uhh what? This is hardly an anti feat let alone a argument since Rick literally says the space is atleast 5d in the universe. Did you just completely ignore they only interact with them through technology? Wtf? This is such a shitty argument, thankfully I can ignore it since you arent staff

What you are arguing for makes every person in Rick and Morty 5-D. I don't think I need to explain why this is stupid.

It wasn't only Rick's technology. Their physical attacks were able to push back and hurt the "5-D creatures" as well. (Here you can see one of the Beth's kick one of them away. This is at 13:43 in Episode 1 of S6)

Even at the end, we see Rick's Spaceship collide with one of them and knock it over. Am I supposed to believe that Rick's spaceship is a 5th-dimensional construct?

And all based on a line about "5th-dimensional stomach juices." Seriously? Is this the best argument you've got?

You know this is ridiculous. And you know that I know that too. Don't play pretend.

Rick literally says they are conceptual, beyond reality and shape it the way they please. Thats textbook ******* concept type 1

My dude, just being "conceptual" in nature is abstract existence at most, and even that can be contradicted due to their interactions with other characters.

They are beyond/can shape reality because they have plot manipulation (meta-fiction) abilities. This isn't evidence of type 1 concept nor is it even close to being "textbook." I don't even understand how you could equate this to that.

 

[ShionAH]

I'll sleep and tomorrow debunk your arguments. Even though there is basically none. Stop with the childish sassy jabs, unnecessary

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Not so sure about this.

 

[ShionAH]

I'll make one last explanation and then I'll wait for the votes.

Universe

---

Its already accepted and shown to us that the universe has atleast two possibly three extra infinite spatial dimensions within it. This is further supported by fifth dimensional beings being able to fit inside the universe.

I don't know why @Phoenks is so focused on the supporting feats but I guess thats what happens when someone is trying to "debunk" for the sake of "debunking" lol.

Counter Arguments

"They can be hurt by humans how are they fifth dimensional??"

First of all @Phoenks, you have yet to give me any kind of scene where they are touched or hurt by Humans. They are only ever killed by Beth, Space Beth and Summer who were using Rick's suits and technology to kill them and the last one is killed by the combination of Space Cruiser and Rick's gadgets. Them being killed by Space Cruiser is a feat for Space Cruiser rather than an antifeat for the Aliens.

"Uhh they kicked them once!"

So? They have literally combat suits that is giving them amplification in stats. This is a feat for Rick's technology.

TLDR

Universes would be 6D or possibly 7D. Unless a good counter argument is shown for this.

Multiverse

---

About the Multiverse, first of all it would contain atleast infinite 6D possibly infinite 7D structures inside of it. Other than that the Multiverse also has higher dimensions within it.

By Rick's word there are "paradimensional planes of existences" in the Multiverse. Paradimensional is not a word but by chopping it up we can learn what Rick means.

"Para" meaning "further and beyond" or as @ActuallySpaceMan42 pointed it out "beside". In this context beyond/further makes more sense than beside, this is due to afterlife and heaven very obviously being above and beyond the normal universes and it being beside them is just wrong according to the episode.

"Dimensional" meaning "measurable extents of some kind, such as length, width, height...". This would mean Heaven is beyond the universes dimensionality, making it 7D possibly 8D. Since the Multiverse contains this it'll also be on that level.

TLDR

Multiverse would be Infinite 7D possibly 8D

Meta Reality

---

Now we have came to meta reality, I'll explain why this is not just "plot manip!!" but even more than that.

In Meta Reality, there are well Meta Beings and Meta Energy. As stated by Joseph Campbell saying that all beings are Meta. Meta Reality is shown to be capable of shaping the entire reality and narrative of Rick and Morty, similar to coding. Everything inside of the Meta Reality is just pure information and coding that shape the reality. Other than this it was stated twice once by Rick and once by Joseph Campbell that Meta Reality is completely conceptual and abstract, Meta Reality is already shown to be completely beyond the Universe since Rick says it can only be accessed by going through the fourth wall and additionally it is shown to be out of range from Rick's portal gun. It already shapes the Rick and Morty Reality as we know it completely making it Concept Type 1 and Information Type 2.

Counter Arguments

"My dude, just being "conceptual" in nature is abstract existence at most"

So "my dude" you just heard Rick say they are conceptual and you thought "that must mean they are abstract at best!" like what? Close your mind for a second and think about it, does conceptual mean they are conceptual or does it mean they are something else? If I say that is an elephant does that mean that is an elephant or a giraffe? It is not hard...

"They are beyond/can shape reality because they have plot manipulation (meta-fiction) abilities."

Okay? That doesn't mean their Plot Manipulation abilities cannot be beyond the normal Plot Manipulation, especially when we see how deep and powerful it is. They shape everything in reality as we know it, they are conceptual and shown to be similar to coding of R&M.

TLDR

Meta stuff are conceptual, abstract, information based and can completely shape and control the universe all the way to its narrative.

---

Don't think anyone disagrees with the rest of the PnA. So anyways this'll probably be my last argument since I dont have much to say anymore.

Snip

You could reconsider your position, if you still disagree I'll respect it though. Just please be sure to specify which parts you disagree with (or the entirety of it)

 

[Phoenks]

Will respond later today. Btw this isn't a debunk you're just restating yourself.

Genuinely have no clue how any staff would see these arguments and think they are compelling.

"It's not an anti-feat the weapons are 5-D!"

"It's not an anti-feat the suits are 5-D!"

"It's not an anti-feat the ship is 5-D!"

"It's not an anti-feat Rick and Morty can just walk across 5-D entities!"


And then we are using this single comic scan to buff the cosmology to 5-D despite it never being referred to directly in the anime or anything else again. I don't support it whatsoever.

I will reply in full later.