Reworking Akuto Sai's profile Part 2 (Demon King Daimaou)

[StorytellingDemonKing]

Hi. So almost a year ago I made a CRT "reworking" Akuto's profile. While it wasn't that bad, it was far from perfect. Pretty much small things were justified (P&A section from V1 to V12) while everything else was left, mostly, unchanged. This time around I will change that.

Here is the sandbox I have prepared:

StorytellingDemonKing/Sai Akuto

vsbattles.fandom.com

Here is his current profile:

Akuto Sai

Akuto Sai (紗伊さい 阿九斗あくと, Sai Akuto?) is the protagonist of Ichiban Ushiro No Dai Maou. He is an orphan who was abandoned by his mother when he was just born, and later at the age of 10 he was adopted by a knight. He has lived somewhat of a hard life, having certain standard expected of him, and...

vsbattles.fandom.com

To summarize the AP upgrades:

Spoiler: AP

Act 2-4

Base Akuto in Act 2 (and anyone who scales to this version) will be upgraded to Low 7-C or Small Town level. The reasoning for this is pretty simple:

Peterhausen was able to survive Brave's plasma explosion which is this powerful. (1.83 Kilotons of TNT) And in Act 2 when Akuto fought Peterhausen, they were able to injure each other and were an even match.

(This part is already accepted and used, just including it so that it's easier to explain where 1.83 kilotons of tnt fit into a scaling chain later)

Act 5-6

Akuto in Act 5, and those who scale to him, will be upgraded to 7-C or Town level. (7.32 Kilotons of TNT) The scaling chain is as follows:

Act 5 Akuto = Boichiro (Completely annihilated Act 4 Akuto and is above him in every regard, including muscle form which is 7.32 Kilotons of TNT) > Act 4 Akuto with Muscle form (4x amp above the 1.83 Kiloton result, and has grown stronger ever since) > Act 2 Akuto = Peterhausen (Survived the plasma explosion) > Low 7-C calculation (1.83 Kilotons of TNT)

Hopefully the scaling chain isn't worded too confusingly. Will clear it up if needed.

Act 7-9

Base Akuto will scale to 7-B or City level. (15.45 Megatons of TNT) The calculation is provided in the AP justification. And can become 4x stronger with statistics amplification from before. But, I will link it here anyway:

Earth crack by Chimera

vsbattles.fandom.com

Act 10-12

Base Akuto remains the same but can go up to High 6-C or Large Island level, (348.94 Gigatons of TNT) since his power extends to wherever mana is, meaning he can likely destroy Japan. The calculation that will be used is by @Agnaa, since that's the only one I could find. Here it is:

Destroying Japan Recalc

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However, I also did my own calculation using Akuto's own given values for his explosions, and so he will receive a likely 6-A rating or Continent level. (2.23 Petatons of TNT) Here is the calculation:

Akuto's Act 12 power

vsbattles.fandom.com

Now, next is the ability and resistance addition.

Act 1

Spoiler: Resistances

• Mind Manipulation (Magic power relies on will of the person, and the stronger will the better they are.[4] This is also shown when Akuto didn't die from Yozo's illusions, as they are powerful enough to kill the people who don't have any mental training)

• Limited Temperature Manipulation (With his coat, which is made for harsh environments[5])

Act 2-4

Spoiler: Abilities

• Temperature Manipulation (After Akuto became angry the mana inside him turned extremely hot[13] to the point it could lit up the air)

• Rage Power (When Akuto becomes angry his mana increases explosively and he becomes far stronger[14])

• Immortality and Supernatural Willpower (Type 2, 3; Showed in his illusions that he can survive as a severed head and still move his main body through the sheer will of wanting to live.[14] He could survive with half of his body blown away and talk with Hiroshi. It's stated he can survive injuries[16] that would kill a lesser man)

• Accelerated Development (Constantly grows stronger.[12] Was sure he could match Boichiro seconds after being defeated, and by their actual 2nd fight he completely demolished him)

Spoiler: Resistances

• Sound Manipulation, Vibration Manipulation and Soul Manipulation (Canceled out Mister X's sound and vibration waves.[17] What's more his Music is the sound of his soul, and so Akuto canceled it by making his soul 'louder'[17])

• Pressure Points (Walked through Lily's punches which were targeting his vital spots[9])

Act 5-6

Spoiler: Abilities

• Martial Arts (Learned Hua Jin[19] from the Headmaster and fought Boichiro)

• Non-Physical Interaction (Capable of damaging and killing[19] The Computer Gods, beings who lack a sense of 'self' aka a soul, mind, and a body, their very existance being considered paradoxical)

• Improved Aura (Deflected[20] Brave's lasers with his Aura alone)

Act 7-9

Spoiler: Abilities

• Radiation Manipulation (Can use the Fallout spell[21] he gained in VPS which creates a powerful nuclear explosion)

• Sound Manipulation (Magically amplified his voice[22])

• Weather Manipulation (Created dark clouds with lightning[22] when he arrived)

• Power Bestowal (Returned magic[22] to the Empire and it's people)

• Technology Manipulation and Hacking (Intervened[23] with Zero's ability to control The Computer God's, and can likely do the same things as him, due to both being Demon King's)

• Fear Inducement (He can cause fear into others that would freeze them in place,[25] as if their souls leave their body)

• Durability Negation (Can use the built up mana inside of others to make it explode[24])

Spoiler: Resistances

• Fear Manipulation (Unaffected by the chimera monsters Aura[21] which is comparable to his own and made Keena scared)

• Radiation Manipulation (Was at the epicenter at his own Fallout spell[21])

• Extreme Temperatures (Can survive in space indefinitely and could fight Zero for centuries if he needed to[26])

• Death Manipulation (Implied to be able to survive after being sealed in VPS,[27] similar to how Zero survived without dying)

Act 10-12

Spoiler: Abilities

• Instinctive Action (Dodged an attack from Nonimora as if he got a premonition.[28] And then dodged her again instinctively[28])

• Adaptation (Akuto's body adapted to the low mana environment of Marlay[29])

• Madness Manipulation (Type 3; With his mere presence he sent Morlock into a state of madness and complete fear[29])

• Dimensional Travel (Can travel to The Afterlife with the Robe of the Fire Rat)

The Afterlife

Spoiler: Abilities

• Existence Erasure (Erased the entirety of The Afterlife[33])

• Resurrection (Everyone who had died were reborn at the hands of the Demon King aka Akuto[33])

• Law Manipulation (Can create worlds with magic and without it, even ones where only women have physic powers[34])

• Fate Manipulation (Has complete control of the characters within his stories and what will happen to them, and can repeat whatever happens to them in various ways with different changes[34])

• Cosmic Awareness (Is aware of everything that happens within The Afterlife and has complete control over it[34])

• Omnipresence (Is Omnipresent within The Afterlife[33][34][35])

• Power Bestowal (Can give characters within his story different knowledge, abilities and state of existence[34])

• Avatar Creation (Created different avatars of himself within his stories[34])

• Breaking the Fourth Wall (Is aware of his fictitious nature, and considered 'more real' than others alongside Hiroshi and Boichiro)

• Memory Manipulation (Can implant different memories in his characters[34])

• Summoning (Summoned[34] The Extra-universal Gods and communicated with them)

• Matter Manipulation (Has complete control of The Afterlife, which is a place where matter moves completely differently than normal and all of it exists simultaneously,[36] and so he can also change the nature of it)

Hopefully I didn't miss anything here.

Spoiler: Void Body

Added Abstract Existence type 1. Also, as a being devoid of plot he should be immune to it, like currently The Law of Identity is:

Immunity to Plot Manipulation (Devoid of plot, in its nature to be beyond and transcended of stories)

So, yeah. To summerize the changes:

• Added more scans
• Added more references
• Added more quotes
• Improved the formatting
• Improved on some justifications
• Upgrade to intelligence and expanded on it too
• Some AP upgrades

Now, there is probably some mistakes I made, like didn't mention something, since it's late, so if you find any let me known so I can correct them. But yeah, not really anything too complicated IMO.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Looks good from a glance.

Btw you should add which type of NEP Akuto has. Or is it just adding scans & correcting format

 

[StorytellingDemonKing]

Looks good from a glance.

Btw you should add which type of NEP Akuto has. Or is it just adding scans & correcting format

Mostly adding scans. Though I think it would be NEP2, since the void body is emptiness within emptiness, reaching even negative. I think maybe DT could handle this part.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Mostly adding scans. Though I think it would be NEP2, since the void body is emptiness within emptiness, reaching even negative. I think maybe DT could handle this part.

If it's just scans then profile looks great no problem so far. You or DT can handle NEP type in another thread.

 

[StorytellingDemonKing]

Don't think that would be enough for durability neg as there's no durability that's being negated.

It counts as durability Negation because more times than not internal organs don't have the same durability as outside.

I think pain tolerance can cover this up.

Don't see a difference. The same thing. Also, I've seen people gain this resistance through similar means, so I was going off of that.

Not sure about this one as well because going by the scan it seems like Akuto was only able to erase it because The Afterlife is entirely under his control.

Makes no difference. So I don't understand this point.

 

[StorytellingDemonKing]

Ok now that I'm reading the scan again I can see that.

Yeah

I think there's a difference between pain that can always be intensified by someone and just enduring pain. I don't know who these characters are, but there are also characters that just gained pain tolerance despite the similarities.

I guess it depends. But I don't see why this shouldn't be counted. Also he has survived being burned alive. Don't know about you, but don't think any run or the mill pain Inducement will even matter, that's why I'm counting it.

The question should be, can he erase The Afterlife because it's under his control or can he erase it regardless? Because the scan just says that he can erase it because this whole structure is under his control.

It doesn't matter. It's still EE. He can erase The Afterlife or erase things in it. Similar to how creators have EE for erasing their creations/domains.

 

[StorytellingDemonKing]

Well my argument isn't really about how much you're hurt, but is if you resisted an ability from someone who can control the pain you experience.

Pain is pain. Don't really see why it matters much.

I mean all of the characters I know of have EE because they erased someone from existence. Now regarding your creator stuff, they may be able to completely erase their creation because they're capable of that, but Akuto's case here is different, he did it because he has control over it and not because he's capable of doing it.

It's not different, no. He's the creator of his stories and The Afterlife is his domain, if he wants to EE it or anyone inside, it's still EE. Feels like a pointless semantics debate so I will let staff decide.

 

[StorytellingDemonKing]

Both have the same outcome but different causes.

So, it stays? Alrighty then.

Alright.

Alrighty.

 

[Larssx]

Seems fine
Agree.

 

[Rikimarox2]

The pain manip should be added to the stamina section. The character isn't resisting any pain-altering ability, more so their endurance/pain tolerance is just high.

 

[AKUTO123]

Seems fine

 

[DontTalkDT]

So, let's talk AP upgrades to start with something.

What the muscles multiplier is concerned: Might go for 3 instead of 4. And another problem is that I'm fairly sure the base that multiplier is applied to downscales from the Plasma explosion. As in, Peterhausen can survive it, but not easily at all.
So personally I would go for Low 7-C+ instead of 7-C.

Then the Chimera calc. I don't quite buy the assumption that it was an earthquake so strong that it produced a giant crack in the ground. Two reasons:
1. It seems more to me like the crack forming is the cause of the Earthquake, not the result of it.
2. This isn't solid ground. It's made clear that there is a giant empty space below the floor where the chimera was waiting. I.e. this isn't simply the ground splitting apart, this is essentially the ceiling of a cave collapsing. And how strong of an Earthquake makes a several hundred meters big cave collapse pretty much depends entirely on how sturdy the cave is build. There is no definitive lower limit.

What the Large Island level thing is concerned... that just sounds like range. Akuto controling all mana and mana covering Japan can't be conclusively said to proof that Akuto can cause a giant explosion that destroys Japan. (And it being one single centered explosion is actually relevant for physics reasons)

 

[StorytellingDemonKing]

So, let's talk AP upgrades to start with something.

Alright.

What the muscles multiplier is concerned: Might go for 3 instead of 4.

I dont see why. Everywhere I look, it says 'many' is more than several which is three. Or outright says it's 4. And it also doesn't overcomplicate things. Several is three and many is four.

And another problem is that I'm fairly sure the base that multiplier is applied to downscales from the Plasma explosion. As in, Peterhausen can survive it, but not easily at all.
So personally I would go for Low 7-C+ instead of 7-C.

Tbh, it's implied Peterhausen did survive it easily. In fact, it's kind of even implied the only reason Akuto himself was damaged at all, was because he didn't have mana at the time.

Then the Chimera calc. I don't quite buy the assumption that it was an earthquake so strong that it produced a giant crack in the ground. Two reasons:
1. It seems more to me like the crack forming is the cause of the Earthquake, not the result of it.

Iirc that shouldn't be the case because first came the earth quake and than a massive crack.

2. This isn't solid ground. It's made clear that there is a giant empty space below the floor where the chimera was waiting. I.e. this isn't simply the ground splitting apart, this is essentially the ceiling of a cave collapsing. And how strong of an Earthquake makes a several hundred meters big cave collapse pretty much depends entirely on how sturdy the cave is build. There is no definitive lower limit.

Don't think it was implied to be empty space bellow the ground. It even describes how such a massive hole formed, rather than revealing it was hollow.

What the Large Island level thing is concerned... that just sounds like range. Akuto controling all mana and mana covering Japan can't be conclusively said to proof that Akuto can cause a giant explosion that destroys Japan. (And it being one single centered explosion is actually relevant for physics reasons)

Actually also disagree with this. The idea he can have the AP/DC comes from the Afterlife, where it's said his power extends wherever there is mana. That's how he was able to crush the Afterlife. So it would only make sense that if his power extends through out Japan, he can destroy it. and technically its stated that even his lowest explosions have a pressure of 5 which could make this far more impressive

 

[DontTalkDT]

I dont see why. Everywhere I look, it says 'many' is more than several which is three. Or outright says it's 4. And it also doesn't overcomplicate things. Several is three and many is four.

So a couple is 2, several is three, many is four, a handful is 5, a few is 6... because all those are precise terms that can't mean the same quantity? That's not how it is. Those terms have no hierarchy between them whatsoever.

Tbh, it's implied Peterhausen did survive it easily. In fact, it's kind of even implied the only reason Akuto himself was damaged at all, was because he didn't have mana at the time.

Can I see the quotes on that?

Iirc that shouldn't be the case because first came the earth quake and than a massive crack.

I'm fairly sure it's mentioned in the order the character's noticed what was happening.

Don't think it was implied to be empty space bellow the ground. It even describes how such a massive hole formed, rather than revealing it was hollow.

That would imply that the Chimera down there was entombed by solid rock, which I think is rather unlikely. More likely that the living being was in a cave that houses it.

Actually also disagree with this. The idea he can have the AP/DC comes from the Afterlife, where it's said his power extends wherever there is mana. That's how he was able to crush the Afterlife. So it would only make sense that if his power extends through out Japan, he can destroy it. and technically its stated that even his lowest explosions have a pressure of 5 which could make this far more impressive

Difference being that the Afterlife in and of itself is made out of Mana, not just the air filled with it.

The earth also shook. The earth would not normally be filled with mana, but this finite space was entirely filled with mana and thus the earth itself was made of mana.

 

[StorytellingDemonKing]

So a couple is 2, several is three, many is four, a handful is 5, a few is 6... because all those are precise terms that can't mean the same quantity? That's not how it is. Those terms have no hierarchy between them whatsoever.

I mean most of the time several is 3 but not many, meaning many is at least 4 from my experience. Also, a while ago when I made a Q&A thread most seemed to agree ‘many’ is 4. Maybe a CRT to handle these sorts of words should be made? Though even then, from what I understand, many refers to a large amount in general so even 3 doesn’t really fit when most of the time ‘several’ is used for it.

Can I see the quotes on that?

Wait, first a question from me. Why are we debating this? Peterhausen survived the explosion and V2 Akuto scales. It doesn’t affect the rest of the scaling chain to 7-C even if it was easily or barely survived by either. (Though, IIRC it’s episode 12 in the anime, you can check that out. Don’t remember the chapter in volume 5)

Edit: Also, I rewatched the scene in the anime, next moment Peterhausen is shown post-explosion he is completely fine.

I'm fairly sure it's mentioned in the order the character's noticed what was happening.

Don’t think so. The hole just kept opening up deep within. Also, it being hollow wouldn’t make sense since the chimera monster had to climb up to it. And it certainly wasn’t stated it has air manipulation.

That would imply that the Chimera down there was entombed by solid rock, which I think is rather unlikely. More likely that the living being was in a cave that houses it.

I don’t think that’s the case because the monster had to climb up from it. It’s also dwarfed by the sheer depth of the created ravine, since in an illustration it’s comparable to a massive cliff and a castle. Essentially, it could be dormant within the ground because it’s never been used in-game vise. And I don’t see why it wouldn’t be encased in the ground as per what I said in my previous paragraph about it climbing.

Difference being that the Afterlife in and of itself is made out of Mana, not just the air filled with it.

Yeah, but he can still use the absorbed mana from the Empire, which stretched the entire country + the atmosphere. (Also, I thought it was in the ground, since that's where the mana is pumped as stated in earlier volumes) So I still don't see why this couldn't be applied to potential explosions. Also, wouldn't lifting the atmosphere of Japan be Class P LS? That too could be upgraded.

if this is what debating AP upgrades is, I'm dreading the moment I will have to debate hax

 

[DontTalkDT]

I mean most of the time several is 3 but not many, meaning many is at least 4 from my experience. Also, a while ago when I made a Q&A thread most seemed to agree ‘many’ is 4. Maybe a CRT to handle these sorts of words should be made? Though even then, from what I understand, many refers to a large amount in general so even 3 doesn’t really fit when most of the time ‘several’ is used for it.

Fairly sure we had one on vague terms and the result was to handle it case-by-case.

Wait, first a question from me. Why are we debating this? Peterhausen survived the explosion and V2 Akuto scales. It doesn’t affect the rest of the scaling chain to 7-C even if it was easily or barely survived by either. (Though, IIRC it’s episode 12 in the anime, you can check that out. Don’t remember the chapter in volume 5)

It matters because you can powerscale from a value in different ways. Like, there are cases where someone barely survives a baselines attack of one tier and hence is ranked a tier lower, because they don't scale to the value value but some unquantified amount lesser.

Maybe better said: Tanking a 1kT explosion without any damage is obviously a better durability feat than barely surviving a 1kT explosion.

This gets amplified by multipliers. Like, if you are 1 tons lower than the original value before, putting a 4x multiplier on it puts you 4 tons lower than what you would get by multiplying the original value by 4.

Edit: Also, I rewatched the scene in the anime, next moment Peterhausen is shown post-explosion he is completely fine.

Wait... I rewatched the scene as well. Isn't Peterhausen tanking that from like a hundred meters away? Explosion decrease in potency with at least square of the distance.

Don’t think so. The hole just kept opening up deep within. Also, it being hollow wouldn’t make sense since the chimera monster had to climb up to it. And it certainly wasn’t stated it has air manipulation.

I... don't follow. How does the chimera climbing contradicts the fact that part of the hole created was already not solid stone before?

I don’t think that’s the case because the monster had to climb up from it. It’s also dwarfed by the sheer depth of the created ravine, since in an illustration it’s comparable to a massive cliff and a castle. Essentially, it could be dormant within the ground because it’s never been used in-game vise. And I don’t see why it wouldn’t be encased in the ground as per what I said in my previous paragraph about it climbing.

Yeah, I know I'm repeating myself, but without evidence, I'm more inclined to believe that the living being is sitting in a room than it being entombed in solid rock.

Yeah, but he can still use the absorbed mana from the Empire, which stretched the entire country + the atmosphere. (Also, I thought it was in the ground, since that's where the mana is pumped as stated in earlier volumes) So I still don't see why this couldn't be applied to potential explosions. Also, wouldn't lifting the atmosphere of Japan be Class P LS? That too could be upgraded.

The air thing would also require evidence of it being able to do that.

Like, the difference between real world and afterlife is that in the real world mana basically is an energy conductor and the energy conducted through the mana can be used to do stuff. It's AoE is as indicative of its power, as the size of a electricity network is indicative of the energy flowing through it.

In the afterlife where moving mana is equivalent to moving the thing itself it's different. There it isn't "use energy from mana to move regular matter rock", but "rock is made from mana, so I just have to move mana itself".

 

[StorytellingDemonKing]

Fairly sure we had one on vague terms and the result was to handle it case-by-case.

Then let's use 4x amp.

It matters because you can powerscale from a value in different ways. Like, there are cases where someone barely survives a baselines attack of one tier and hence is ranked a tier lower, because they don't scale to the value value but some unquantified amount lesser.

I mean, even then base Akuto still vastly upscale Peterhausen, which wouldn't have an effect on the rest of the scaling.

Maybe better said: Tanking a 1kT explosion without any damage is obviously a better durability feat than barely surviving a 1kT explosion.

I mean true, but Akuto is still vastly superior to Peterhausen considering he was equaling him in V2 alone.

This gets amplified by multipliers. Like, if you are 1 tons lower than the original value before, putting a 4x multiplier on it puts you 4 tons lower than what you would get by multiplying the original value by 4.

Ah, OK, though Peterhausen no diffed the explosion, considering he wasn't shown to be damaged.

Wait... I rewatched the scene as well. Isn't Peterhausen tanking that from like a hundred meters away? Explosion decrease in potency with at least square of the distance.

Certainly not that far, though I don't see how that matters since Peterhausen views Brave as a worthy opponent and can fight him on equal footing. it's also states that the Plasma explosion is greater than the 3km nuke so if it gets dire ima goon for that fr fr

I... don't follow. How does the chimera climbing contradicts the fact that part of the hole created was already not solid stone before?

Because he climbed it like a steep wall. Implying it's in a hole wouldn't make sense considering by proxy it implies a circle shape or something akin to that. So it makes more sense for it to be just filled with rock. Also, considering just the sheer length of the Earthquake, definitely doesn't seem like the cave is covered by a thin layer of earth. Oh, and it didn't collapse like a cave would.

Yeah, I know I'm repeating myself, but without evidence, I'm more inclined to believe that the living being is sitting in a room than it being entombed in solid rock.

Ngl, considering the context of ground itself literally opening and forming a giant ravine, without even implying there is a cave bellow, seems to indicate my interpretation slightly more.

The air thing would also require evidence of it being able to do that.

Like, the difference between real world and afterlife is that in the real world mana basically is an energy conductor and the energy conducted through the mana can be used to do stuff. It's AoE is as indicative of its power, as the size of a electricity network is indicative of the energy flowing through it.

In the afterlife where moving mana is equivalent to moving the thing itself it's different. There it isn't "use energy from mana to move regular matter rock", but "rock is made from mana, so I just have to move mana itself".

So, if the mana in the real world is an energy conductor...wouldn't it mean it can conduct and create tier 6 explosions, considering he has complete control over the entire stock? Ngl, I'm a bit more confused on this point so would be great if you elaborated on it.

 

[Duragoji123]

Following this, glad to see my boy getting more attention LOL

 

[Duragoji123]

Actually, might as well go ahead and give my input on everything.

I think all of it looks pretty good, I'm inclined to agree with most of it. Not sure about the Peterhausen surviving the explosion stuff, but I'll let you and DT continue to talk about that at some point lol

 

[Duragoji123]

Bump

 

[Duragoji123]

Bump

 

[Duragoji123]

Another one bumps the dust

 

[Duragoji123]

Bumpity bump

 

[Duragoji123]

Bump

 

[StorytellingDemonKing]

Bump.

Reformatted the OP so it's easier to read and evaluate than before. Also, slightly changed the sandbox for Akuto since I added 7 keys (2 more), instead of 5 like before, to showcase his growth through the series, and will also help for other character scaling as to understand them easier. Like "X character scales to Act 1 Akuto" and you actually understand where he scales, instead of lumping Act 1-5 under a single 7-C key for the sake of including overarching arc (God Suhara arc) in the series. (hopefully that makes sense)

 

[Eseseso]

Damn for such a high tier Akuto's hax is kinda lacking.

Op looks fine at a glance.

 

[StorytellingDemonKing]

Bump.

---

Damn for such a high tier Akuto's hax is kinda lacking.

Well, the series was never written with powerscaling in mind and had its own goals to achieve. (Which is why it's a masterpiece)

 

[ProfectusInfinity]

Changes look fine to me.

 

[Highness]

Bro, may I ask? With the new tier system of Ultima, what tier will Akuto be in?

 

[StorytellingDemonKing]

Bump

 

[StorytellingDemonKing]

I remade the cloud split that Brave did and got 1.86 megatons of TNT, so those who scale will be Low 7-B instead of Low 7-C like before.

This means Act 2 Akuto's power with statistics amplification is 7.56 Megatons of TNT or 7-B. I've also removed "higher with statistics amplification" in future keys (3rd key and onwards), as post Act 2 he is always in his "muscle form" and thus his base is 7-B. (7.56 megatons of TNT)

I also removed High 6-C key from Act 12 and now its simply "At least 7-B up to 6-A" instead of "At least 7-B up to High 6-C, likely 6-A" as I don't believe there's a reason for the High 6-C to be added, it just fills space.

Hopefully the changes look good and are acceptable since the Low 7-B calc is accepted.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Then let's use 4x amp.

I mean, even then base Akuto still vastly upscale Peterhausen, which wouldn't have an effect on the rest of the scaling.

I mean true, but Akuto is still vastly superior to Peterhausen considering he was equaling him in V2 alone.

Ah, OK, though Peterhausen no diffed the explosion, considering he wasn't shown to be damaged.

Certainly not that far, though I don't see how that matters since Peterhausen views Brave as a worthy opponent and can fight him on equal footing. it's also states that the Plasma explosion is greater than the 3km nuke so if it gets dire ima goon for that fr fr

You definitely are going to need take inverse square law into account for explosion tanking feats that aren't point blank.

Because he climbed it like a steep wall. Implying it's in a hole wouldn't make sense considering by proxy it implies a circle shape or something akin to that. So it makes more sense for it to be just filled with rock. Also, considering just the sheer length of the Earthquake, definitely doesn't seem like the cave is covered by a thin layer of earth. Oh, and it didn't collapse like a cave would.
Ngl, considering the context of ground itself literally opening and forming a giant ravine, without even implying there is a cave bellow, seems to indicate my interpretation slightly more.

I see no reason the ground couldn't do that while being a ceiling. You can climb out of a collapsed cave. Also don't see where the idea that it climbed up a steep wall even comes from. Don't think the text specifies that.
You're assuming the Chimera was down there under conditions we don't even know that it could survive.
And, as also said before, I have doubts that the earthquake caused the earth split and not the earth splitting process the earthquake. When splits form movement starts before the actual fracture.

So yeah, by all given information, I don't agree with that approach.

So, if the mana in the real world is an energy conductor...wouldn't it mean it can conduct and create tier 6 explosions, considering he has complete control over the entire stock? Ngl, I'm a bit more confused on this point so would be great if you elaborated on it.

I see no reason to reach that conclusion. You're basically trying to judge the amount of electricity in the power grid by its size. How much cable is laid out has no influence on the amount of electricity in the grid. The only relevant thing is how much electricity the power plants put in.

 

[StorytellingDemonKing]

You definitely are going to need take inverse square law into account for explosion tanking feats that aren't point blank.

Ap still scales and they can trade blows. BTW there's also a statement of the plasma explosion being more powerful than his nuke.

I see no reason the ground couldn't do that while being a ceiling. You can climb out of a collapsed cave. Also don't see where the idea that it climbed up a steep wall even comes from. Don't think the text specifies that.

I mean it is stated to be a caldera, so I think my version is closer and more accurate.

You're assuming the Chimera was down there under conditions we don't even know that it could survive.

What do you mean by conditions here? Surviving the collapse or being there for a long time?

And, as also said before, I have doubts that the earthquake caused the earth split and not the earth splitting process the earthquake. When splits form movement starts before the actual fracture.

I don't know what you exactly mean by this. The Chimera was the cause of the earthquake which was powerful enough to split the ground. I'm just calculating the earthquake and using the split for justification of higher magnitude.

I see no reason to reach that conclusion. You're basically trying to judge the amount of electricity in the power grid by its size. How much cable is laid out has no influence on the amount of electricity in the grid. The only relevant thing is how much electricity the power plants put in.

Maybe it's because I'm pretty bad at English sometimes but I don't get this point. Akuto is a small container of electricity (using your example) and the large amount of it is the mana.

Also, think about this: When Akuto first creates his explosion in the classroom he used the mana inside of him. A smaller proportion of mana within him was able to cause significantly larger damage around him that blew away an entire room. So, I do think power output is significantly greater than the mana available. (I hope you understand my point)

 

[DontTalkDT]

Ap still scales and they can trade blows.

AP scales how? Don't think Peterhausen fought anyone that directly scales to that technique or did he?

BTW there's also a statement of the plasma explosion being more powerful than his nuke.

Which influences the situation in which way?

I mean it is stated to be a caldera, so I think my version is closer and more accurate.

I don't see that actually stated somewhere, not to mention that one could perfectly describe a collapsed cave like that.

What do you mean by conditions here? Surviving the collapse or being there for a long time?

Being there entombed in solid rock unable to move, without food, water and oxygen for prolonged periods of time.

I don't know what you exactly mean by this. The Chimera was the cause of the earthquake which was powerful enough to split the ground. I'm just calculating the earthquake and using the split for justification of higher magnitude.

I don't think the text says the earthquake was responsible for splitting the ground. I think the process of splitting the ground may be responsible for the Earthquake, in which case the justification for the magnitude wouldn't work as the split isn't caused by the tiny fraction of the energy of the shacking anymore.

Maybe it's because I'm pretty bad at English sometimes but I don't get this point. Akuto is a small container of electricity (using your example) and the large amount of it is the mana.

Also, think about this: When Akuto first creates his explosion in the classroom he used the mana inside of him. A smaller proportion of mana within him was able to cause significantly larger damage around him that blew away an entire room. So, I do think power output is significantly greater than the mana available. (I hope you understand my point)

I don't get your last point. The power would be transmitted from the mana. The power output of something using mana can at most be equal to the power of the mana used.

That aside, let's briefly review how magic works:

“Mana fills the air and various effects are produced by moving it. Energy is pumped into the earth itself from the power generation facility in the center of the imperial capital and the mana resonates with it. That is why mana is often thought to be the same as energy. Of course this is all just the basics of magic.”

While mana is often thought of as energy, it isn't. Mana is actually nanomachines.

Mana reacted to the state of one’s mind, but that mana was nothing more than nanomachines that were made to mechanically react to brainwaves.

So, if someone uses a spell to fly, what happens is probably that a cloud of nanomachines basically carries them up. Given, the nanomachines have rather miraculous abilities, seeing how they can do space manipulation and stuff.
Anyway, the point is that mana isn't energy. It's nanomachines, which are being powered by energy coming from a power generation facility in the imperial capital.
If said power generation facility generates 1 million watts of power, then that's all the power all magic users combined can use. That's the practical upper limit of magic power.
The amount of mana-nanomachine plays no role in that upper limit. Even if you sat down and build a trillion extra nanomachines, they would still just be able to draw power from the same 1 million watts of power that the power generation facility generates.
Hence the powerline analogy. Mana basically is a wireless power network. It transmits power from a power plant to a spell through the air.
So Akuto isn't a container of electricity, he's a container full of outlets. The idea that more outlets = more energy works initially, but only until you try to draw out more than your power network can distribute overall.

 

[StorytellingDemonKing]

AP scales how? Don't think Peterhausen fought anyone that directly scales to that technique or did he?

Peterhausen can survive point blank plasma explosions and his physicals scale. He traded blow for blow with Act 2 Akuto, both damaging each other until complete exhaustion. So, yeah, he has fought Akuto who directly scales to him and that creates more scaling chains. (most high tiers being Low 7-B)

Which influences the situation in which way?

Backs up Low 7-B tiering just in case.

I don't see that actually stated somewhere, not to mention that one could perfectly describe a collapsed cave like that.

I mean it is stated to be a caldera, and the whole scene reminds me of when the ground splits open in disaster movies. However, even then, the main point of arguing the split for higher magnitude justification, so I don't believe that even if it's a collapsing cave, that it changes anything. The earthquake is being calced.

Being there entombed in solid rock unable to move, without food, water and oxygen for prolonged periods of time.

Yeah, so the game is a few days old and we don't really have to assume it needs food, water and etc. (and, well, its a supernatural monster)

I don't think the text says the earthquake was responsible for splitting the ground.

monster just waking up causes an earthquake
the earthquake splits open the ground (or causes the collapse of a cave, dont think it matters)

I think its pretty straight foreward.

I think the process of splitting the ground may be responsible for the Earthquake, in which case the justification for the magnitude wouldn't work as the split isn't caused by the tiny fraction of the energy of the shacking anymore.

Don't think that was ever implied to be the case.

I don't get your last point. The power would be transmitted from the mana. The power output of something using mana can at most be equal to the power of the mana used.

Not at most, at least.

That aside, let's briefly review how magic works:

While mana is often thought of as energy, it isn't. Mana is actually nanomachines.

So, if someone uses a spell to fly, what happens is probably that a cloud of nanomachines basically carries them up. Given, the nanomachines have rather miraculous abilities, seeing how they can do space manipulation and stuff.
Anyway, the point is that mana isn't energy. It's nanomachines, which are being powered by energy coming from a power generation facility in the imperial capital.

Magic and energy are synonymous in the novel, and if they are nanomachines, they sure as hell are really, really small. (Potentially quantum level but that's convo for later CRTs) So, yeah sure. They are still supernatural in nature considering the stuff they can do.

If said power generation facility generates 1 million watts of power, then that's all the power all magic users combined can use. That's the practical upper limit of magic power.
The amount of mana-nanomachine plays no role in that upper limit. Even if you sat down and build a trillion extra nanomachines, they would still just be able to draw power from the same 1 million watts of power that the power generation facility generates.
Hence the powerline analogy. Mana basically is a wireless power network. It transmits power from a power plant to a spell through the air.
So Akuto isn't a container of electricity, he's a container full of outlets. The idea that more outlets = more energy works initially, but only until you try to draw out more than your power network can distribute overall.

I mean I don't see how this actually affects anything as the actual power output and network could (and likely is) be infinite or countless I guess. He could still use all of the mana within the empire which damage is at least proportional to the amount of mana there is, if not exponential. After all, the mana within the empire is constantly giving 125+ million people power, and we already know that BoS Akuto was using mana for the first time in his life, and so all he could use was what was within him naturally, no? Which would still be smaller than the damage output. (What's more, even small generators of mana are enough to give characters their base power casually)

 

[The_forgetten]

Mostly adding scans. Though I think it would be NEP2, since the void body is emptiness within emptiness, reaching even negative. I think maybe DT could handle this part.

This seems really nice. Should the fact that there is a void that negates the non-physical void in the fundamental direction be sufficient for a state that is ontologically completely non-existent?

 

[DontTalkDT]

Peterhausen can survive point blank plasma explosions and his physicals scale. He traded blow for blow with Act 2 Akuto, both damaging each other until complete exhaustion. So, yeah, he has fought Akuto who directly scales to him and that creates more scaling chains. (most high tiers being Low 7-B)

Wasn't that a weaker plasma ball and an earlier Akuto, though?

Backs up Low 7-B tiering just in case.

I mean, which plasma explosion? One tanked from a distance or one tanked from close range?

I mean it is stated to be a caldera, and the whole scene reminds me of when the ground splits open in disaster movies. However, even then, the main point of arguing the split for higher magnitude justification, so I don't believe that even if it's a collapsing cave, that it changes anything. The earthquake is being calced.

The surroundings are a caldera, but I don't see why that would mean there can be no chamber below. Heck, could be a former magma chamber.
An earthquake to make a cave collapse doesn't need to have even remotely the magnitude of one that splits solid ground. There are a number of mining disasters related to operations collapsing caves. Some shacking destabilizing the wrong rock can be all it takes.

Yeah, so the game is a few days old and we don't really have to assume it needs food, water and etc. (and, well, its a supernatural monster)

Would still need air and in the game's story it is there for much longer.
And sure, it could be that it has supernatural powers to ignore those problems. But I won't default to assuming supernatural powers if I can instead assume that a simple cave exists. Like, I doubt anyone would approve to give the Chimera non-standard breathing based on the information we have.

I think its pretty straight foreward.

Yeah, no. It's nowhere confirmed that the monster used an earthquake power or anything. We have no indication of cause and effect here. We only know in which order the characters noticed the phenomena.

Don't think that was ever implied to be the case.

I don't think the opposite was ever implied either. When in doubt, we go for low ends.

Not at most, at least.

?
Why would mana operate at more than 100% efficiency?

Magic and energy are synonymous in the novel, and if they are nanomachines, they sure as hell are really, really small. (Potentially quantum level but that's convo for later CRTs) So, yeah sure. They are still supernatural in nature considering the stuff they can do.

The explanations are from the novel. So in general that's already false.
Often it is in fights thought in a simplified manner that more nanomachines equals more power, but as said, that's just like how you can, up to a certain point, say more sockets equals more power.

I mean I don't see how this actually affects anything as the actual power output and network could (and likely is) be infinite or countless I guess.

Not sure why that would be the case?

He could still use all of the mana within the empire which damage is at least proportional to the amount of mana there is, if not exponential. After all, the mana within the empire is constantly giving 125+ million people power, and we already know that BoS Akuto was using mana for the first time in his life, and so all he could use was what was within him naturally, no? Which would still be smaller than the damage output. (What's more, even small generators of mana are enough to give characters their base power casually)

The mana in him is also drawing from the power produced in the power generation facility.
And sure, it services 125 million people, but not all of those are doing (or even able to do) big magic things at once. Even if we say the average energy consumption of a citizen is several times higher than that of a real life person using electricity, Japan has an energy consumption of 903.70 billion kWh which comes down to about 10^11 Watt of power. That's many orders of magnitude away from Country level.

 

[StorytellingDemonKing]

Wasn't that a weaker plasma ball and an earlier Akuto, though?

Don't remember there being distinct plasma balls, and that statement is made in general, it was in volume 8 or 9.

I mean, which plasma explosion? One tanked from a distance or one tanked from close range?

I don't think it really matters and is distinct that way. Maybe the anime made it seems like that?

The surroundings are a caldera, but I don't see why that would mean there can be no chamber below. Heck, could be a former magma chamber.
An earthquake to make a cave collapse doesn't need to have even remotely the magnitude of one that splits solid ground. There are a number of mining disasters related to operations collapsing caves. Some shacking destabilizing the wrong rock can be all it takes.

I feel like that needs more assumptions. The novel never specifies any chambers or caves bellow.

Would still need air and in the game's story it is there for much longer.
And sure, it could be that it has supernatural powers to ignore those problems. But I won't default to assuming supernatural powers if I can instead assume that a simple cave exists. Like, I doubt anyone would approve to give the Chimera non-standard breathing based on the information we have.

To be fair we really don't know, so considering it is a supernatural monster with powers, I don't see why not. The problem I have is that the novel never even so much as implies there being a collapsing cave or anything similar, just a massive split in a caldera that also extends several hundred meters.

Yeah, no. It's nowhere confirmed that the monster used an earthquake power or anything. We have no indication of cause and effect here. We only know in which order the characters noticed the phenomena.

I'm not arguing an earthquake power. I'm arguing power (ap) that causes earthquakes. If we accept scaling characters to stopping earthquakes with a punch I don't see why we wouldn't scale punches or any form of destruction that causes earthquakes to that earthquake.

I don't think the opposite was ever implied either. When in doubt, we go for low ends.

I mean it was an earthquake and then a split.

?
Why would mana operate at more than 100% efficiency?

Exponential increase?

The explanations are from the novel. So in general that's already false.
Often it is in fights thought in a simplified manner that more nanomachines equals more power, but as said, that's just like how you can, up to a certain point, say more sockets equals more power.

Yeah I'm just confused by this point.

Not sure why that would be the case?

To sustain VPS for any period of time considering their size. Mana would be in countless production non-stop.

The mana in him is also drawing from the power produced in the power generation facility.

Akuto's type is internal mana control. All living creatures absorb mana.

And sure, it services 125 million people, but not all of those are doing (or even able to do) big magic things at once. Even if we say the average energy consumption of a citizen is several times higher than that of a real life person using electricity, Japan has an energy consumption of 903.70 billion kWh which comes down to about 10^11 Watt of power. That's many orders of magnitude away from Country level.

Even if they aren't using it they still have that power at all times and several would like be a severe understatement tbh.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Don't remember there being distinct plasma balls, and that statement is made in general, it was in volume 8 or 9.

? I don't think Peterhausen appeared in those volumes?
Peterhausen would not scale to Akuto in volume 8 or 9.

I don't think it really matters and is distinct that way. Maybe the anime made it seems like that?

It matters a lot whether Peterhausen tanked an explosion from close range and if that explosion is the same / comparable to one with known strength.

I feel like that needs more assumptions. The novel never specifies any chambers or caves bellow.

To be fair we really don't know, so considering it is a supernatural monster with powers, I don't see why not. The problem I have is that the novel never even so much as implies there being a collapsing cave or anything similar, just a massive split in a caldera that also extends several hundred meters.

I'm not arguing an earthquake power. I'm arguing power (ap) that causes earthquakes. If we accept scaling characters to stopping earthquakes with a punch I don't see why we wouldn't scale punches or any form of destruction that causes earthquakes to that earthquake.

I mean it was an earthquake and then a split.

The novel doesn't have to imply the existence of something that is not relevant to its events and logically should exist.
You are arguing an Earthquake power, since you choose the intensity of the Earthquake based on the assumption that it causes the split. If that assumption fails you don't get your result. That it was caused by an attack and can be scaled to it was never the question, the problem is that the power output is not calculated correctly.

Anyway, this is going in circles with no new evidence or arguments being brought up. I will remain at my position and that's it.

Exponential increase?

Where do you get exponential increase of efficiency from? Especially one that would break conservation of energy?

To sustain VPS for any period of time considering their size. Mana would be in countless production non-stop.

What is VPS supposed to be short for?

Akuto's type is internal mana control. All living creatures absorb mana.

Yes, and mana is nano-machines that receive energy from the central power plants. More machines to draw energy from the power plant and transfer it into Akuto equals more energy for Akuto... up until the point the power plants have no energy to be drawn out left.

Even if they aren't using it they still have that power at all times and several would like be a severe understatement tbh.

They "have that power at all times" in the same way Japanese citizens have access to electricity at all times.
I don't think several times greater is all that much of an underestimation. You can definitely not just put a guess of it being orders of magnitude higher on the profile.

 

[StorytellingDemonKing]

Sorry for the late response. Had others thing to do first. man a week already has nearly passed since you responded. my bad lol

---

? I don't think Peterhausen appeared in those volumes?
Peterhausen would not scale to Akuto in volume 8 or 9.

Yeah, he wouldn't. I never said he did. What he would scale to is Brave's plasma explosion anyway. The only time I can genuinely think it gets more powerful is after the 2nd reactor in the whole faceless power arc. Overall, there should still not be any issues with Peterhausen scaling to it thus making him Low 7-B.

It matters a lot whether Peterhausen tanked an explosion from close range and if that explosion is the same / comparable to one with known strength.

I don't remember the plasma explosion ever being mentioned to be varying in power, neither does the story go out of its way to imply it does when directly stated to be above the nuke.

The novel doesn't have to imply the existence of something that is not relevant to its events and logically should exist.

This doesn't make sense to me? Because then it feels like a slipery slope, no? For example since you're arguing there was a cave that would make this feat less impressive, one could argue its drastically deep to the point it doesn't matter if it is a cave. You can easily take this kind of line of thinking and go out of proportions.

You are arguing an Earthquake power, since you choose the intensity of the Earthquake based on the assumption that it causes the split.

No, I'm arguing power (Ap) that can cause earthquakes.

If that assumption fails you don't get your result. That it was caused by an attack and can be scaled to it was never the question, the problem is that the power output is not calculated correctly.

How was it not calculated correctly?

If a character were to cause an earthquake, by lets say punching, then we would scale the AP to the earthquakes value, no?

Anyway, this is going in circles with no new evidence or arguments being brought up. I will remain at my position and that's it.

Sure.

Where do you get exponential increase of efficiency from? Especially one that would break conservation of energy?

Because you can do less with more? Like the example of Akuto's very first explosion?

What is VPS supposed to be short for?

Oh, it's Virtual Phase Space. You probably know it as Virtual Alternate Dimension. (Computer God world/4d space)

Yes, and mana is nano-machines that receive energy from the central power plants. More machines to draw energy from the power plant and transfer it into Akuto equals more energy for Akuto... up until the point the power plants have no energy to be drawn out left.

Yeah, and I don't see the problem that goes against my point?

They "have that power at all times" in the same way Japanese citizens have access to electricity at all times.
I don't think several times greater is all that much of an underestimation. You can definitely not just put a guess of it being orders of magnitude higher on the profile.

I mean it's not a guess. Destruction should scale proportional to the energy accessible bare minimum.

Akuto has all the empires mana
We know he can create far more powerful explosions from just the mana within his body
He should bare minimum have the power (AP) equivalent of destroying the Empire

Overall, the series does portray Akuto's power to wherever mana extends at least. (always adding at least, since as it stands, he can create explosions larger tham himself from mana within his body)