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Revision in the Digimon World Hierarchy

Ah, so you are a college professor
Student you mean?

Dragon we all know that no student can produce these walls of text without dying of boredom and agony
 
My thoughts are mostly that this all seems legit. I trust Ex with this stuff wholeheartedly. I have asked people who could likely evaluate this stff accurately to come, so we are still hoping that they respond. (I have asked Assalt, Kepe and DT)

The main deal here is how we consider the layers. The big question is "Do these layers have evidence to support them being higher dimensions or not?".This would be something Ex would likely need to explain more just in case.

That is our main deal with the size/hierarchy of the multiverse.

Then there is how we treat the Digimon themselves. Would Digimon simply get Non-Corporeality or would they be considered a type of Abstract Existence. Ex said likely not, but I do wonder what those who can evaluate from the outside will say.

Of course tiering will not change in this thread. Nothing will be added as a result of this thread. That will be saved for another thread I will make. This thread is basically getting the hard part out of the way and getting the multiverse size and hierarchy out of the way so that tiers and scaling can be worked on at a later point and at an easier rate.
 
Ah, so you are a college professor
Student you mean?

Dragon we all know that no student can produce these walls of text without dying of boredom and agony

I wouldn't say so. In fact I'd say that college students would be far more inclined to wall-of-texting.
 
The biggest reason I'm confused as to how this is applied is because it's something I do not see many other franchises with a similar cosmology getting higher rankings because of the planes of existence (I've seen one that is actually Tier 1 because of various planes of existence, but I believe it have reasons for that which are not in the profile. Besides the profiles themselves make it clear that it is only a possibility, then it is not something to compare).

In general emanationist cosmology does not take into account dimensional differences (Remember that many philosophies take into account the whole existence of spacetime as being something purely physical, and therefore each metaphysical level is already disconnected with the limits of time and space, which certainly we should not generalize for any fictions).

Of course some franchises treat this in some way similar to different dimensional levels, but often this is ignored due to the lack of concrete demonstrations that the dimensions work as they should. For those who want to see a hyped description of the Digimon multiverse, but still relying on the official descriptions see below.

The Hyped Digimon Multiverse
The first known level of existence is the Physical World of humans. It is in this layer where the infinite multiverse is located, it is composed of infinite universes for each possibility, each decision can have infinite variations being the presence of a being in that determined time line the result of the Wheel of Destiny. It is a common multiverse of universes for every possible decision, and the franchise defining it as infinite.
Above the human multiverse there are several layers of existence, little is known about them. It is usually portrayed as the region that exists between the Real World and the Digital World, having to cross 6 layers to reach the lowest layer of the Digital World that is known as the "Physical Layer of the Digital World". Some works establish that this "Dimensional Wall" is the cosmic correspondence of the human network, and the data transmitted by humans through the computer network crosses this dimensional wall and reaches the Digital World.

The Digital World is similar to the composition of the "Dimensional Wall", I say this because it is a region composed of multiple layers, but it is called by a single name. Yes, the Digital World is made up of several layers, and we actually know more of them than the rest of the layers in the franchise.

Digimon Tamers and Digimon Twin specifies that each layer of the Digital World is made up of countless other worlds, which are now called Servers. By comparison, each V-Pet sold in the franchise, which is something official within the franchise universe, actually connects to at least one of those servers that are located between the various layers of the Digital World.

And by the nature of the Digital World, there are officially infinite worlds created through time and space, one for every possibility being created every moment, but still with all existing simultaneously through the Chronicle Layer System. It's similar to the Physical Layer, but instead of worlds created by the Wheel of Destiny, time and space in the Digital World is written by Host Computer's omnipotent calculations.

The interesting thing is that the Digital World Digital is described exactly as being transcendent to the Real World. Especially in Digimon Xros Wars it is described that the Digital World is structurally superior to the Real World, and even the Real World itself would not be able to simulate the Digital World. In the same work it is specified that due to the nature of the Digital World, the time axis in which the Digimon exist isn't linear but is actually a inconstant non-linear time axis.

In Digimon Story Cyber Sleuth it is specified that in fact the Digital World transcends the Real World, being used as a means of comparison between the World of Eaters and the Digital World, since it was specified that the world created by Suedo should transcend the Digital World itself . In fact, both Xros Wars and Cyber Sleuth are often the ones who specify that the Digital World transcends the Real World.

Specific descriptions of Higher Dimensions are most commonly used above that. Profiles such as RagnaLordmon claim that in fact there are Higher Dimensions as well as others, although without much information. In general, the terms "Higher Layer", "Higher Plane" or "Higher World" are usually used.

The Eaters were the first to be accurately described as Higher-Dimensional beings, or even Hyperdimensional beings. Described as coming from a higher world to both the Digital World and the Real World, being beyond comprehension and concepts. The description of their manifestation in the lower planes is in fact the same description of the manifestation of the Digimon in the lower worlds. It is described that the Eaters when manifesting in the lower worlds distort reality, which have been understood in different ways through the ages, and that the supernatural events perceived by electronic devices are in fact examples of the manifestation of the Eaters. Which is actually ... very consistent with the description of the Digimon manifestation in the Real World according to both Kakudou and Habu.

Above this several other layers until you reach the level of the Gods.
 
There are a few... Like Marvel who interchangably uses higher-planes with higher-dimensions. Could you hypothetically guess how many higher-planes/higher-dimensions are within the Multiverse.... That would be a good place to start.
 
Kepekley23 said:
I wouldn't say so. In fact I'd say that college students would be far more inclined to wall-of-texting.
Click to expand...
This is the most absolute /WOOSH in all of existence
 
@The 2nd Existential Seed

The Hyped Digimon Multiverse Part 2
The Physical World is a conventional infinite multiverse.
Above this it is specified that there are 6 layers between the Digital World and the Real World, it is a reference to the 7 layers of the OSI Model of the internet with the seventh layer being the lowest layer of the Digital World.

The lowest layer of the Digital World is simply referred to as the "Physical Layer of the Digital World". Above it there are different worlds in different layers, the number for them is not specified. We just know there are several.

At the top of the hierarchy of the conventional Digital World, there is the Realm of Four Holy Beast, gods in the eyes of the Digimon. At the time they were revealed, it is described as the highest plane of existence in the Digital World where the Four Holy Beasts reside protecting all space-time from collapse while maintaining the balance of worlds with their powers.

It was later revealed that the Realm of the Four Holy Beasts is not the apex of the Digital World, since they only existed "Near the Realm of the Gods" without being true gods. Then it is described that the Heaven, Kernel, God's Realm, Paradise, Eden, etc; is the real apex of the Digital World. This is the Yggdrasil's, where the essence of Yggdrasil is actually located. This is a realm beyond the space-time of the Digital World, being beyond the Chronicle Layer System.

There is also the well-known "Superdimensional Space" that is described as being that transcends the axes of time and space, from where all times and spaces can be seen. We just saw this particular place with Homeostasis while it was acting as Yggdrasil's replacement, so it might just be the true nature of the Yggdrasil World, though it's not confirmed.

Above this there are other planes of existence, being better known as the World of Eaters, a hyperdimensional world above the understanding and concepts of the lower beings.

And then it is described that everything until then is only part of an even larger system created by the true gods.
</div>

So...:

  • Physical World;
  • Dimensional Wall (6 Layers);
  • Digital World;
    • Physical Layer;
    • Several layers, each with its worlds;
    • Realm of the Four Holy Beasts;
    • Yggdrasil's Realm;
  • Eater's World;
  • Others Works of the Gods;
  • The Gods
There are still other worlds that we simply do not know much about as the Infinite Mountain that seems to be linked with different dimensions but that the greatest source of information about it is in a game that the translation should only be finalized next year.
 
DragonEmperor23 said:
When you say Gods, you mean there are multiple above Yggdrasil?
Click to expand...
This is not specified. In fact Suedo says that there must be gods who have created all this, and that there must indeed be arguments to defend the existence of these gods (Or only God, Suedo in the beginning only uses God in the singular while later he refers to Gods, which perhaps is in fact a reference to emanasionism which treats as each being of a higher layer as being a god in the eyes of those in lower layers).

Generally speaking these Gods, or just God, that exist beyond Yggdrasil are a mystery. Suedo says that until now Yggdrasil still seeks their existence and that she was not able to detect anything, however due to Yggdrasil's effort to find that answer is not over yet so it is not yet known what the definitive answer is.
 
So like I said before, the biggest part in this whole thing is deciding whether these 6 layers are, or can be considered higher planes or higher dimensions.
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
So like I said before, the biggest part in this whole thing is deciding whether these 6 layers are, or can be considered higher planes or higher dimensions.
Click to expand...
Why wouldnt both mean/be the same thing?
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Dragonmasterxyz said:
So like I said before, the biggest part in this whole thing is deciding whether these 6 layers are, or can be considered higher planes or higher dimensions.
Click to expand...
Why wouldnt both mean/be the same thing?
Click to expand...
plane1

/pl─ün/

nou

  1. 1.
a level of existence, thought, or development.

"everything is connected on the spiritual plane" di┬Àmen┬Àsion

/də╦êmen(t)SH(ə)n,d─½╦êmen(t)SH(ə)n/

nou

noun: dimension; plural noun: dimensions

  1. 1.
a measurable extent of some kind, such as length, breadth, depth, or height.

  1. a mode of linear extension of which there are three in space and two on a flat surface, which corresponds to one of a set of coordinates specifying the position of a point.
    • PHYSICS
an expression for a derived physical quantity in terms of fundamental quantities such as mass, length, or time, raised to the appropriate power (acceleration, for example, having the dimension of length ├ù time ÔêÆ2). The words are not synonymous with each other.
 
@ProfessorKukui4Life This is more a general topic than that related to Digimon. But in general, many religions and philosophies treat higher planes as being something spiritual and unrelated to dimensions. More specific, many believe that ideas such as spacetime, dimensional positions, and such are all physical constructs, and in the "context" of these higher planes, such realities would already exist above what is considered as dimension.

In general, there are those who try to put these things together in order to say that the "Higher Planes" are actually higher dimensions, generally pseudo-sciences that try to unite science to spiritual, but they do not fully understand the scientific concept of dimension.

Some franchises actually work with this sort of thing, like Bastard !. The question in this case is as in any citation of a higher dimension in a work, it must be consistent with what is expected here. Bastard !! treats the spiritual as something that exists beyond three-dimensional space, but by not using the dimensions in a way as established in our Tiering System, then it is not considered Low 2-C.

After all, our system does not necessarily require mentions of higher dimensions, but rather of something equivalent to "an infinitely superior state of transcendence" which coincidentally can be treated as a difference between higher dimensions in many fictions.

Some planes of existence can be used to put someone in Tier 1, while in other times isn't anything special. The same way that sometimes dimensions can be used to put someone in tier 2 or higher, while in other cases... this means nothing.

In the end it all depends on how the work deals with these things, and the higher the level it will be, the more proof are required here. All that Digimon has demonstrated is the metaphysical difference, multiverses through different levels of existence, mentions of higher structures in higher worlds, and sometimes mentions of higher dimensions, but which in general are used to describe worlds beyond the Digital Worlds.

There is a degree of relation as I pointed out at the end in my last answer, but nothing too big to justify Tier 2 or Tier 1.
 
I say that they in fact could be. However, layers =/= Higher Dimensions so I cannot say for certainty. Hence why I do want opinions from those well versed in this type of stuff as my judgement ain't the best with this.
 
Same. I don't see any evidence for each layer/dimension being infinitely higher than the other, just that the layers/dimensions exist.
 
so digimon are spiritual beings not made of data and reason they are considered as data based beings in human world is cuz humans via technology were capable to perceiving and interacting with them correct?

if that's true then why magic in digimon is same as high lvl programming/hacking and eating data amped someone like Diaboromon?
 
Infera28 said:
so digimon are spiritual beings not made of data and reason they are considered as data based beings in human world is cuz humans via technology were capable to perceiving and interacting with them correct?
Click to expand...
No, Digimon are made of data.
 
Infera28 said:
so digimon are spiritual beings not made of data and reason they are considered as data based beings in human world is cuz humans via technology were capable to perceiving and interacting with them correct?
Click to expand...
As the Digimon can only be observed by modern digital devices they are called the Digimon, in the past they may have been observed as Youkais (ÕªûµÇ¬) or Shikigami (Õ╝ÅþÑ×) and the perception seems to change according to the era
~ Kakudou​
Also, when we were making Digimon Adventure for the PSP, I was given an opportunity to talk to the Digimon Adventure anime's director, [Hiroyuki] Kakudou, about Digimon. Director Kakudou told me, "Digimon may have existed as entities like youkai, ghosts, or spirits. Maybe these spirit-like beings were recognized as Digimon programs to humans through computers…" It was very interesting to me.
~ Habu​
Previously, on the "Premium Cafe" program, when we were introducing Digimon Adventure for the PlayStation Portable, I met Watanabe-san for the first time. During the program, I appeared with the director of Digimon Adventure, Kakudou-san (Hiroyuki Kakudou. Worked as the director for the TV anime Digimon series), and at the time he said, "strictly speaking, Digimon can only exist through electronic devices, so being able to perceive those things called Digimon could be thought of like a youkai-like or spiritual existence." Following up on that, he said, "I think you've been writing about that kind of theme in your novels, Watanabe-san."
~ Habu​
habu's trying not to spoil, but from what he says, my impression is that the digimon in this game are not really computer-generated creatures, but beings that had long ago interacted with humans in other forms, such as yokai and magical spirits
~ Onkei​
What originally is the existence of a Digimon itself? They had existed since ancient times,and their existence with a deeper meaning had become recognizable to people by being embodied in digital devices and thus could be visible, based on the idea that people define "This is what they are" for that they can understand with current knowledge as Digimon or a mysterious phenomenon, so Cyber Sleuth has its world view drawn on the work. But the perception and definition can change depending on the point of view of each person just like things that seemed to be enemies can change at a certain moment. This is because the idea is based on the principle that the perception of Digimon differs for each character in the work. The recognition and definition of "Digimon" changes because of people's growth and thus a Sci-fi story of how the world changes can be written.
~ Habu​
 
The real cal howard said:
Does Digimon even count as sci-fi anymore?
Click to expand...
In some games, yes (A big part of Digimon Games don't even know that this is a thing, in games this is a new concept that was used first in the Adventure anime, that is more a fantasy, not a sci-fi).

Other games are half sci-fi and half fantasy, like Cyber Sleuth (It starts as the sci-fi of the original lore and after some chapters the game will become a fantasy game, but still in a cyber punk setting).

And then there is the true Fantasy games like... well... Survive 0v0
 
Bump.

At the very least, I believe that the 6-D characters should be 7-D, 4-D characters should be 5-D and 5-D characters should be 6-D due to the Digital World being a higher plane to the Human World.
 
DragonEmperor23 said:
But what makes the Digital World higher dimensional that the other layers don't have?
Click to expand...
The Digital World has actual quotes of transcending the Physical World and was used in a comparison to compare the Digital World and the World of the Eaters by using the Physical World and Digital World. The World of the Eaters are directly noted to be a higher dimension above even the Digital World. Ex even mentioned this in one of his comments.
 
Oh, okay. That makes sense then. How are the layers described in comparison to the Digital World? Because if it's saying that the Digimon World doesn't have anything that makes them difference with how they are from the layer below them, then we can use all the layers as higher dimensions.
 
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