The complete review for 1B Toaru

[Acertainbcplayer]

Purpose
This Thread is made to do a slight Revision on Toaru, to try get it to 1B.

I'll be focused on the Magic Gods and other higher form of existence and why they'd suffice for at least 1B. First, let's talk about the Physical Universe. The Physical Universe is the Universe where nearly all events happens in Index, it is the "world" that all the other Phases stacks upon. Now, we've agreed that the Physical Universe is 11D via teleporters, how their abilities works and Curtana proving the existence of higher dimensions. Anyways, to the Magic Gods:
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Magic God's power can't be contained within the Physical Universe, moving an arm or a leg, or by merely existing, they will crush the world as it is. By dividing their power by infinity, they could barely contain themselves inside the universe. This isn't talking about Physical size (obviously) nor would it be power outburst, it's just that the structure of the world can't hold their power:

“But, High Priest,” cut in a girl’s voice that sounded even younger and also childish. “Miss Zombie’s theory is essentially the same as holding up opposing mirrors, right? By splitting up our power infinitely, we can intentionally weaken ourselves and avoid destroying the world whenever we move an arm or leg.”

“What about it, Niang-Niang?”

“I’m just wondering if the symbol ∞ will really grow weaker when you split it up. I don’t want to smash the world up like stained glass the first step I take. We’re not like Othinus.”

“It doesn’t matter if it’s a mere deception as long as it works. Just like a Moebius strip or a Klein bottle, some concepts are allowed to exist even if they can’t be properly defined, Niang-Niang.”

“Yeah, but I prefer practical ideas over theories. You could say I’m the inventor type instead of the scientist type. I have a hard time believing it’ll actually work just because the theories all add up. I can’t rest easy until I try it out for myself and see that it works.”

“Found your feet? Do you mean that spell that infinitely divides the infinite capacity of a Magic God to trick the world by eternally layering existences that are just barely small enough for the world to contain?”

Remember, this isn't talking about Physical size, nor would it be the same case as Gabriel that Physical Body made from material of the Physical world can't support it's power and blows everything up, the Magic God's power fits fine within their body, there is nothing wrong with them. This also isn't about size either obviously, so again, this is purely about how their infinite power would crush the Physical Universe that can support 11 dimensional phenomena just fine, whether it is "infinite" in terms of 11 dimensional or not, again, it's not about Physical Size as I stated cause it doesn't make any sense. So, it has to be about structure, as they're also talking about "tricking the world" by "infinitely layering their existence".
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A Magic God at their 1/infinite state and even further weakened by Aleister can still add one more Phase:

Even after being hit by Aleister’s weakening spell, she still had enough power to swap out the phase just once.

(Embed it.)

She bit her lip while aware she was at the disadvantage even as a god.

(Embed the phase, change the world, and use that power to crush-…)

The voice of her heart was cut off.

She heard a tremendous explosion of sound and her phase was crushed.

So at their full power, they would have enough power to comfortably adding or destroying Phases an infinite amount of time, whether they could output all their power at the same time is up to your interpretation.

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Higher forms of existence, Phasic beings:

Angels, Mythical beings, all of them, even if they fall into the world and gain a Physical Form, could cause effect like Angel Fall that would strain the world to breaking point:

All of a sudden, there were four of those winged higher beings.
Each of them carried enough firepower to obliterate this unclean world. The pressure from Gabriel alone had caused the entire world to audibly strain to the breaking point when driven down from heaven by Angel Fall.

This is by the way, not talking about the weird affect that Angel Fall has on the world, but the sheer pressure from Gabriel did so. The world here is again, the Physical Universe, but if you say "uh actually it's just the earth" for some reason, then I have better ones to prove this:

Before the battle even began, Marian had likely used the sword to cut through the surrounding space and create a sort of barrier around the area. If she had not, the appearance of the different mythical figures would have created a mysterious phenomenon much like Angel Fall. Or the power could have exceeded the limits of the world itself and everything would have shattered like glass.

Having destroyed the world herself, Othinus knew that was no exaggeration.
“That truly is an appropriate weapon for opposing a Magic God.” -> Confirmation from Othinus herself

So basically, not just the Magic Gods, higher form Phasic Beings can actually surpass the limit of the Physical World and achieve the same thing as a TMG at full power, this time directly implies that they could surpass the physical limit of the Physical Universe. And because Phases could support their original form, which would 100% crush the Physical World, Phases could reach at least 12D to support their existence. And Magic Gods who can crush and add Phases to their liking, would also be straight up 1B.
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Next, we also have things like the New World that Kamisato introduced to the Magic Gods, who are supposed to be able to control and manipulating Phases as their liking and is omnipotent to the Universe, are somehow unable to even know their existence and we can even assume that the act of manipulating Phases doesn't do anything to those worlds at all, because when Othinus for example, destroying everything but the Hidden World and everything gets recreated again, how would the Magic Gods, unaware of the existence of the New Worlds or the "hidden space in the timeline", be able to recreate them again? This would also put the Cosmology to 1B even if the Magic Gods argument still isn't. To who would scale to this, I'm not sure yet, but the thing here is, now we can even accepts the fact that the cosmology of Toaru is more vast than we've thought it to be.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

So, all of these are proofs that Magic Gods is at least higher than 11D, putting them at 1B at the least.

 

[Piamma]

Purpose
This Thread is made to do a slight Revision on Toaru, to try get it to 1B.

I'll be focused on the Magic Gods and other higher form of existence and why they'd suffice for at least 1B. First, let's talk about the Physical Universe. The Physical Universe is the Universe where nearly all events happens in Index, it is the "world" that all the other Phases stacks upon. Now, we've agreed that the Physical Universe is 11D via teleporters, how their abilities works and Curtana proving the existence of higher dimensions. Anyways, to the Magic Gods:
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Magic God's power can't be contained within the Physical Universe, moving an arm or a leg, or by merely existing, they will crush the world as it is. By dividing their power by infinity, they could barely contain themselves inside the universe. This isn't talking about Physical size (obviously) nor would it be power outburst, it's just that the structure of the world can't hold their power:



Remember, this isn't talking about Physical size, nor would it be the same case as Gabriel that Physical Body made from material of the Physical world can't support it's power and blows everything up, the Magic God's power fits fine within their body, there is nothing wrong with them. This also isn't about size either obviously, so again, this is purely about how their infinite power would crush the Physical Universe that can support 11 dimensional phenomena just fine, whether it is "infinite" in terms of 11 dimensional or not, again, it's not about Physical Size as I stated cause it doesn't make any sense. So, it has to be about structure, as they're also talking about "tricking the world" by "infinitely layering their existence".
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

A Magic God at their 1/infinite state and even further weakened by Aleister can still add one more Phase:


So at their full power, they would have enough power to comfortably adding or destroying Phases an infinite amount of time, whether they could output all their power at the same time is up to your interpretation.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Higher forms of existence, Phasic beings:

Angels, Mythical beings, all of them, even if they fall into the world and gain a Physical Form, could cause effect like Angel Fall that would strain the world to breaking point:



This is by the way, not talking about the weird affect that Angel Fall has on the world, but the sheer pressure from Gabriel did so. The world here is again, the Physical Universe, but if you say "uh actually it's just the earth" for some reason, then I have better ones to prove this:



So basically, not just the Magic Gods, higher form Phasic Beings can actually surpass the limit of the Physical World and achieve the same thing as a TMG at full power, this time directly implies that they could surpass the physical limit of the Physical Universe. And because Phases could support their original form, which would 100% crush the Physical World, Phases could reach at least 12D to support their existence. And Magic Gods who can crush and add Phases to their liking, would also be straight up 1B.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Next, we also have things like the New World that Kamisato introduced to the Magic Gods, who are supposed to be able to control and manipulating Phases as their liking and is omnipotent to the Universe, are somehow unable to even know their existence and we can even assume that the act of manipulating Phases doesn't do anything to those worlds at all, because when Othinus for example, destroying everything but the Hidden World and everything gets recreated again, how would the Magic Gods, unaware of the existence of the New Worlds or the "hidden space in the timeline", be able to recreate them again? This would also put the Cosmology to 1B even if the Magic Gods argument still isn't. To who would scale to this, I'm not sure yet, but the thing here is, now we can even accepts the fact that the cosmology of Toaru is more vast than we've thought it to be.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

So, all of these are proofs that Magic Gods is at least higher than 11D, putting them at 1B at the least.

There seems to be some confusion about the definition of ‘world’ in Toaru. While a phase-based entity like Gabriel might be destroying something other(material world) than Earth—namely the material world—that’s not the same ‘world’ MagicGods can destroy.

First, regarding the world that MagicGods destroy:

It involves the ‘phase of the material world,’ which may include physical laws up to 1-B or H1-B, as well as ‘Heaven,’ the ‘Pure Land,’ ‘Asgard,’ and every mythological or religious phase—in other words, the largest definition of ‘world’ in the Toaru series. This is mentioned countless times in NT13, NT12, NT10, in discussions of the scope and references to MagicGods.

On the other hand, the world that phase-based entities destroy is only the material world bound by physical laws. In Kabbalah terms, it would be the ‘lowest layer’ or ‘material world.’ As you said, if these phase-based entities could destroy the same scope of ‘world’ that the MagicGods do, they would end up destroying the mythological or religious phases they themselves belong to, simply by existing.

Naturally, that would lead to a contradiction.

 

[Acertainbcplayer]

There seems to be some confusion about the definition of ‘world’ in Toaru. While a phase-based entity like Gabriel might be destroying something other(material world) than Earth—namely the material world—that’s not the same ‘world’ MagicGods can destroy.

First, regarding the world that MagicGods destroy:

It involves the ‘phase of the material world,’ which may include physical laws up to 1-B or H1-B, as well as ‘Heaven,’ the ‘Pure Land,’ ‘Asgard,’ and every mythological or religious phase—in other words, the largest definition of ‘world’ in the Toaru series. This is mentioned countless times in NT13, NT12, NT10, in discussions of the scope and references to MagicGods.

On the other hand, the world that phase-based entities destroy is only the material world bound by physical laws. In Kabbalah terms, it would be the ‘lowest layer’ or ‘material world.’ As you said, if these phase-based entities could destroy the same scope of ‘world’ that the MagicGods do, they would end up destroying the mythological or religious phases they themselves belong to, simply by existing.

Naturally, that would lead to a contradiction.

The "world" I'm solely focusing on here is simply the Material World (or the world that can be affected by Phases, not counting the Phases). Also, yea, you're right, I kinda mistook the "world" that Magic Gods could destroy, being the existing world itself and not just the material universe.

But again, I'm solely focusing on the fact that all of these would get Magic Gods to 1B regardless. Whether being able to crush the whole existing world would scale them higher, I'm not sure I would be able to prove that on vsbattle.

Anyways, your opinion on my CRT? Is there any flaws that would make the 1B proposal false?

 

[Piamma]

The "world" I'm solely focusing on here is simply the Material World (or the world that can be affected by Phases, not counting the Phases). Also, yea, you're right, I kinda mistook the "world" that Magic Gods could destroy, being the existing world itself and not just the material universe.

But again, I'm solely focusing on the fact that all of these would get Magic Gods to 1B regardless. Whether being able to crush the whole existing world would scale them higher, I'm not sure I would be able to prove that on vsbattle.

Anyways, your opinion on my CRT? Is there any flaws that would make the 1B proposal false?

Well... I think the first order of business is resolving the thread at

Thread '[Toaru H1-B Hax] Curtana revision RETRY CRT'

Dec 22, 2024

Curtana Revision and H1-B Hax​

This thread is a retry of a previous discussion regarding Curtana’s classification, specifically whether it qualifies for H1-B hax. I aim to reevaluate the arguments in light of VS Battles Wiki’s revised tiering system philosophy.

---

New Tiering System Philosophy​

According to Ultima’s explanation of the revised tiering system, the distinction between being "beyond dimensions in a specific cosmology" and "beyond dimensions in general" has been removed. This implies that statements such as "above all dimensions" inherently signify transcendence...

• LOTM_Historian
• kamijou touma to aru majutsu no index toaru majutsu no index
• Replies: 58
• Forum: Content Revision

• 

After all, dimensional theory is ultimately just another set of physical laws.
If that thread’s conclusion is accepted, they will essentially be at baseline H1-B.

 

[Acertainbcplayer]

Well... I think the first order of business is resolving the thread at

Thread '[Toaru H1-B Hax] Curtana revision RETRY CRT'

Dec 22, 2024

Curtana Revision and H1-B Hax​

This thread is a retry of a previous discussion regarding Curtana’s classification, specifically whether it qualifies for H1-B hax. I aim to reevaluate the arguments in light of VS Battles Wiki’s revised tiering system philosophy.

---

New Tiering System Philosophy​

According to Ultima’s explanation of the revised tiering system, the distinction between being "beyond dimensions in a specific cosmology" and "beyond dimensions in general" has been removed. This implies that statements such as "above all dimensions" inherently signify transcendence...

• LOTM_Historian
• kamijou touma to aru majutsu no index toaru majutsu no index
• Replies: 58
• Forum: Content Revision

• 

After all, dimensional theory is ultimately just another set of physical laws.
If that thread’s conclusion is accepted, they will essentially be at baseline H1-B.

Eh, the thread aside, if we're gonna argue using physical laws and stuff, I think we gotta have to do a complete H1B focused thread that introduce not just statements around Curtana, but everything we have in the verse that could prove H1B without violating NLF. But I can't do that at the moment, if only we have enough people gathering scans and contexts...