Resisting Esdeaths Timestop

[ViperVillian25]

Incursio is an living evolving suit of armor that adapts to it's environment, that means it's adaption is reactionary, which means it's adapting to Esdeath's Frozen Space upon it's use, every time Incursio adapts to something like Budo's lightning or Cosmina's sound attacks he becomes immune, the only time incursio fails is during Mahapadma, as he was only able to move for a second, dispite already being resistant to cold temperatures.

That is because Incursio hadn't adapted to Frozen Space at that time. Everyone here more or less has agreed to the fact that Esdeath is Freezing Time and not her surroundings.

The cryostasis idea can't hold up to the passing of gravity or vibrations, which we can see when Esdeath uses Mahapadma they are completely frozen, which could only happen if she is Freezing Time.

 

[No_Might]

and it has to expirence it to adapt to it. incursio has never been exposed to the time freeze she is using her ice to freeze time and space so yes she is freezing time but the question was how and my anwser is by using the main and only ability of her teigu her ice. incursios little ice resistance is the reason why it could move for if only a second in the frozen space

mines shots act has beams when they are fired though which can be frozen.

depending on the resistance of cold you can resist it as you are resisting the ice and cold that is freezing time and space as i dont see an ice type teigu freezing time any other way. this is also why its mainly referred to as time freeze and not stop

 

[Paul_Frank]

I agree with Imade as well

 

[Ragna777]

She would die from her blood being frozen. Everyone would die.

It's a real Time Stop.

This hypothesis that she's literally freezing people and things instead of time itself (which Esdeath has said herself and the author Takahiro has said) has too many holes and inconsistencies to be accepted.

Freezing things and people doesn't explain things being stuck in air like Susanoo when he was trying to assassinate the priest. He was floating in air.

No it isnt Saying she froze the metaphysical concepts of time and space is far more flimsy. 1. Tatsumi and incursio have no resistance to metaphysical conceptual attacks it a nlf to say he could, when nothing before suggest such. 2. Mine lasers are beams which can be froze 3. Time and space are just concepts, where in agk is space time continuum ever shown. 4. How do concepts have a temp gauge, what is this temp gauge, how do you know, how do you know it can be frozen.

Again your taking them saying she froze time and space to literal

Its actually pretty clear why they're frozen in mid air because flow of air is frozen to, there is no motion able to occur due to the cold of her ability. Her able is ability is pretty much flash freezing, when you freeze an entire persons body rather than just incase them in an ice cube. With Her ability its not target just one person, its a wide range cold effecting the very motion of things like i said including air. So what im saying is you cant fall if air around you is frozen to.

So if theres no motion going due to how cold it is then the concepts of time and space would indirectly be stop to since they effect all things.

Tatsumi resisted thanks to his cold resistance

 

[ViperVillian25]

1- Freezing Time and Space is what Esdeath and the Author have stated in both a descriptive and a narrative sense, it's even stated that way again within post scripts.

2- The description of how Pumpkin works is that it gathers in Mine mental energy and unleashes back out as a concentrated shockwave, that is it's description, Shockwaves are vibrations and they can't be frozen because they'd just disappear.

3- Time and Space are mentioned by Esdeath herself and referred again by the Author in the post scripts.

4- Demon's Extract didn't have a Trump Card so Esdeath invented one, and that is to create a space where time has been frozen, additionly she can cover herself in ice in order to fly, not everything needs to make sense.

5- That is cryostasis, Ive already stated my counter to that. Including air flow makes less sense, as Esdeath uses Mahapadma outside which would mean she'd have to be able to put the wind and the snow from ISCIC into cryostasis too.

6- Incursio's adaption is reactionary, it tries to adapt to it's enviroment when it experiences something new, it was already resistant to cold temperatures, it tried to adapt to Frozen Space, but it couldn't at first, as Tyrant it does.

 

[No_Might]

the thing is that esdeath flying is BECAUSE of her ice so its consitent with her abilities


also it dosent make sense for incursio to try and adapt when they are frozen and never expirenced the timestop before or even for a decent amount of time

 

[No_Might]

also the post scripts are jokes. she says its all in the pose.....

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

no because you would resist the cold thats being use to freeze time hence how tatsumi resisted it as he was never exposed to the timestop before then

yes susanoo was frozen in time in mid air

This doesn't explain everyone else also frozen.

According to you, it freezes even the blood in people, and Esdeath survived her poisoned blood since it was frozen in place (which should kill her), but by having resistance she lives through frozen blood.

Not only does this contradict itself, it doesn't explain how everyone else in the world isn't dead from being frozen solid.

And you have no answer for why projectiles, people, and lasers were frozen in mid-air.

A physical freeze would cause them to fall, but it's not a physical freeze because Esdeath herself says it freezes time and space while Takahiro, the author, has said it freezes time and space to stop time.

 

[Schnee_One]

I made wasn't there a point where Esdeath time Freezes Tatsumi prior? Or was he knocked out?

 

[No_Might]

she uses her ice and temp manip to freeze time and space. while freezing time and space someone with ice resistance should be able to resist the ice that is freezing time and space correct? yes the author specifically says that she FREEZES it. if it was refered to as stop then it would be a diffrent story. therefore it leads to me to believe that she is freezing time and space

the poision isnt resist to the cold that is being used to freeze time and space therefore its still going to be affected

the people,lazers,and projectiles are also not immune to the cold thats being used to target time and space

 

[No_Might]

yes tatsumi was knocked out when it was first done

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

I made wasn't there a point where Esdeath time Freezes Tatsumi prior? Or was he knocked out?

He was knocked beforehand and wakes up after.

Everyone else was stopped.

Susanoo does squirt blood out during the time stop when Esdeath stabs him.

 

[ViperVillian25]

I'm in agreement with IMade. This is one of my first debates on this site is someone keeping track of the score?

 

[S.K.CusSiwel]

I am in absolute agreement with the chaps named ViperVillian25 and IMadeThisOn8-1-2017. I believe that they are the only ones here who have made a viable argument with backed-up evidence. They have my vote.

 

[No_Might]

therefore tatsumi never expirenced the timestop. again the author and herself constantly says she freezes time not stop it

 

[ViperVillian25]

Freezing Time and Space is stopping time, time isn't moving.

 

[No_Might]

but she froze time. time isnt moving becuase of the frozen tempatures she has inflicted upon time so if you have cold resistance you should be able to resist the cold thats being used to freeze time

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

1- Can you provide citation that time is stopped because Esdeath somehow inflicted freezing temparture upon time? Trump Cards don't have to connect with the normal ability of the Tengu; for example Extase is a giant very sharp scissors, but its Trump Card is somehow creating a bright flash of light from thin air.

2- Even if your claim is correct, this does not mean that time stop can be resisted with resistance to low heat; time is what is getting frozen, not the person with the resistance to low heat.

 

[No_Might]

1. the author and herself constantly refer to her freezing time not stopping it. there also tatsumi resisting it without even expirencing it once


2. but you are resiting the freeze thats being used to freeze time

 

[AstralKing7]

I've always agreed with Tatsumi being resistant to time freeze

 

[Ragna777]

I am in absolute agreement with the chaps named ViperVillian25 and IMadeThisOn8-1-2017. I believe that they are the only ones here who have made a viable argument with backed-up evidence. They have my vote.

Honest counters have been made against the fact the a actual time stop, while no good have been made to support. Just constantly saying esdeath said she froze time space and the post script says so, so there. While also twisting other abilites to support the fact that it is and ignore the clear context the story is saying.

1.tatsumi was able to resist it thanks to is ability to adapt to the cold, esdeath said this. Yet people reach around and twist it by saying "yea she did say that but despite the fact she said that's not what she meant. She said she froze time space and tatsumi adapted to space time continuum manipulation." WHAT? No that's not what she meant. Tatusmi incursio no showings suggesting it can go against conceptual attacks, thats a nfl. Anyone could say anything like he can adapt to reality warping, no. She specifically mentioned incursio ability to adapt cold, there would be no reason,nor does it make sense, for her to being up adapt to the cold if he adapted to something else like you all are suggesting. She would of instead brought up what he was actually capable of adapting to, like she did with his adapt to cold. But she didnt. Tatsumi is shown moving a second time when he turns into incursio which puts a consistent to esdeath statement on how full dragon incursio can adapt to cold.

2. Mines laser was frozen because it just a laser/energy it can be frozen. Yet her ability gets twisted to, saying it conceptual and it vibrations which cant freeze. No we see on panel that her power is physical energy that has an effect on objects. She can melt and destory esdeaths ice.

3. Akames sword is twisted to being conceptual to. No its not its just poison with no cure within the agk verse. The poison isnt part of esdeath she can withstand the ability but not poison.

4. Well how are people frozen mid air. Thats because theres no motion going on or capable of happening due to the cold. So air flow is frozen as well. When you fall, air is pusing back against you slowing down, air resistance. If that air was suddenly frozen to you wouldnt fall. People say back "no thats no right, she used it outside so she have able to freeze the wind and snow of icic". Hmm i get what the point of this is, what are you suggesting again. Its just snow it not effecting anyone. Well she does when she use it a second time, the snow stopped to. https://*********.com/Manga/Akame-ga-Kill/Chapter-076?id=327863#37

5. Well why dont people die when the ability is over. Cause the effects are gone. Its just like how an ice user flash freezes someone then unfreezes them and the person is fine after. Esdeath had intented to use this on tatsumi to keep him from escaping. By that logic tatsumi would die when the ability is undone

There is multiple counters.

Then theres No Mights simple explanation she freezes time space but even then cold resistance allows you to resist the cold she using to. One way or the other cold resistance counters it, esdeaths said so herself again she would have no reason to meantion cold adapt if he adapted to something else entirely. To twist and ignore the clear context to give her an ability she doesnt have is unfair. Dont say she was talking about his resistance to her physical ice that not true. She cant use her ice in that moment and she meantioned it while she was flinging at him before when he evolved.

 

[S.K.CusSiwel]

is two much two read you type again butt smaler for me to four me to read? My engrish is not bad but good two and i dont knew wat to responding too you please

 

[TheRustyOne]

I don't see any definitive proof that ice/cold resistance means you can resist her time stop. She didn't say that Incursio being able to adapt to frozen tundras is the reason he can move, it seems to me that she's just talking about his ability to adapt and used tundras as an example of that.

Her wording is very vague, is that the official translation? Also are there anymore statements or guide books that explain how her ability works? For now I'm neutral but please note that if she does say that she freezes time and space then that's how the ability works, she invented it after all.

 

[Ragna777]

is two much two read you type again butt smaler for me to four me to read? My engrish is not bad but good two and i dont knew wat to responding too you please

Sorry about that

 

[S.K.CusSiwel]

Don't worry about it, fam ƒÿ£

 

[ViperVillian25]

It's funny how you put stock in what Esdeath says during Mahapadma when Incursio attempts to resist it, but not when she herself states that she is freezing Time and Space.

How Mahapadma works and how it's described to work by Esdeath mentions nothing about filling any kind of Space with cold temperatures to freeze everything.

Pumpkin's description is what is: http://i.imgur.com/lJmwNVB.jpg So if you want to use logic, shockwaves are vibrations and they can't be frozen.

 

[No_Might]

her time freeze is never described how she does it any aside from saying she is freezing time not outright stopping it

 

[ViperVillian25]

What I said was "It's funny how you put stock in what Esdeath says during Mahapadma when Incursio attempts to resist it, but not when she herself states that she is freezing Time and Space."

She is stopping time: https://m.imgur.com/fx26Nyq Again: http://mangarock.online/chapter/akame-ga-kill-chapter-76#40

Esdeath states she froze time, when something is frozen it stops.

Akame states that Esdeath suspended time, to suspend something is to prevent it from moving.

 

[No_Might]

she stopped it by freezing it though something they make sure to address it by. she is freezing it with her powers of ice not outright stopping it depending on the ice resistance you should be able to resist the levels of cold thats being used to freeze time and space

 

[ViperVillian25]

Your not getting it, she is freezing time, not the people around her, the only thing to adapt there is to adapt to the time has been frozen.

Incursio is a special case as it's adaption is reactionary and it could adapt to it's environment, which isn't because it was cold, but because Time had stopped moving.

Cold resistance doesn't help you when time has stopped moving.

 

[No_Might]

but if she is using her ice to freeze the time you should resist the ice being used to freeze it


cold resistance should help you when cold is the reason time had stopped moving

 

[ViperVillian25]

Not if you aren't the thing that is being frozen, Esdeath is freezing time.

She's causing time to freeze and by proxy that freezes everything else.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

but if she is using her ice to freeze the time you should resist the ice being used to freeze it

cold resistance should help you when cold is the reason time had stopped moving

This line of reasoning assumes that Esdeath is targeting people and things to physically freeze to imitate stopped time.

However, this is blatantly false for several reasons:

Esdeath herself says that time and space are frozen.

The author, Takahiro, has gone and included in his Volume additions that Esdeath freezes time and space to stop time.

Susanoo was frozen in air. If Esdeath was targetting people directly then Susanoo would fall from the ground, but he isn't since it's time that is stopped.

Mine's laser is also frozen in air.

The curse on Esdeath's body is stopped which physical freezing could not do.

 

[No_Might]

but you should again resist whats being used to freeze time its freezing time but you should resist the cold being used to freeze time

 

[No_Might]

im saying that she is indeed FREEZING time and space but with ice resistance you should be able to resist the ice and freeze that time and space is being subjugated to

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

im saying that she is indeed FREEZING time and space but with ice resistance you should be able to resist the ice and freeze that time and space is being subjugated to

And again, that doesn't make sense because you aren't being targeted by ice, ice is targetting time and space to stop time.

So the effect of the ability is still a stopped time and you need resistance to that in order to resist it.

Having ice resistance would not enable you to move in stopped time. The ice resistance can't do anything to the effects of time stop, they aren't compatible.

 

[ViperVillian25]

And what I keep saying is that the freezing isn't happening to the people around Esdeath, that Esdeath is freezing Time and Space causing a proxy time stop.

She isn't flooding the area with cold temperatures to create cryostasis, Time is what is being frozen.

 

[Schnee_One]

Going to be honest Mine's laser has high enough heat that she can literally vaporize Rock so it being hot enough to resist ice didn't help.

Secondary note, and this solves both issues right here, instead of Esdeaths Time Stop requiring a person with ice resistant being an anti feat for her time Stop, maybe Tatsumi's reactive evoulution is simply so good it can adapt to Cold strong enough to freeze time?

 

[No_Might]

im going to wait for ragnas input

 

[Zero0zero0zero]

Secondary note, and this solves both issues right here, instead of Esdeaths Time Stop requiring a person with ice resistant being an anti feat for her time Stop, maybe Tatsumi's reactive evoulution is simply so good it can adapt to Cold strong enough to freeze time?

If we get in this line of thought, characters with resistance to absurdly low temperature levels would be able to deny her time stop, which would end up agreeing with OP. I think that it's impossible to Esdeath having a "Time Stop" ability that is completely unrelated to her "Ice and Cold" abilities since pretty much every Teigu follows a logic around their abilities and Esdeath is specifically "Ice". Just saying her Time Stop doesn't have any relation with her other abilities is just silly.