Ren Fujii Finale's AP revision

[EMS-TC02_Phantom]

Around August 2010, Masada Takashi held some sort of QnA regarding one of his work, Dies irae Acta est Fabula, on Togetter (a popular Japanese web service that allows users to bundle tweets under any given topic). One of the question asked then answered there was "what would happen if Bey, Beatrice, and/or Cain were to fight Trifa? Would they win?" to which Masada answered with "Vanaheimr is treated like a death flag in-story. Only people who can seriously defeat Trifa are nothing more than the twin leaders (referring to both Reinhard and Karl Kraft), Machina, and Finale"

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Given Trifa's own durability rating, this particular WoG would make Finale Ren's AP to scale to Trifa's durability. Machina most likely doesn't benefit from this as he has a hax that for the most part ignores things like durability, scale, and the nature of ***** he punches

tl;dr

Finale Ren's AP is scaled to Trifa's durability

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

It all goes down when you remember Ren can neg dura with his 1-A scythe girlfriend so it's basically the same as Machina

 

[EMS-TC02_Phantom]

It doesn't even work when he bashed the damn thing right on Reinhard's neck when the latter was on a weaker state compared to his fully manifested state. Trifa's own explanation mentioned about how having a sheer power comparable to those of the whole Legion is a legitimate method of breaking down the Holy Grail outside from having an instakill hax, which is something that Finale falls into, it's both instakill hax in a specific hitbox (though this is more a properties inherent to the Relic rather than smth that belongs to a particular form) and it's a massive power boost to his prior form. Don't see why it's suddenly attributed to hax when it's already failed before and said hax is never mentioned to improve or anything along those lines + blatant statement about how high enough sheer power can work and Finale is a bigass boost in term of firepower

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

the only thing i can add was that wasn't finale stated by the narration to be a netherworld comparable to glasheirm?

around here

 

[StrongClick]

I agree with OP

 

[SleepyTBubble]

Fweine with it

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

i was thinking to be neutral about it till further notice but yeah it makes sense to have ren scale to the dura of trifa. Though idk if i should bring this up but then what about the commanders at full swastikas? they should scale no?

 

[EMS-TC02_Phantom]

No

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

>It doesn't even work when he bashed the damn thing right on Reinhard's neck when the latter was on a weaker state compared to his fully manifested state.

That's regarded as a resistance for Reinhard as he was struck three times with it and never affected him


>Trifa's own explanation mentioned about how having a sheer power comparable to those of the whole Legion is a legitimate method of breaking down the Holy Grail outside from having an instakill hax

You said it yourself, a hax that bypasses its dura which is what Ren and Machina have


>Don't see why it's suddenly attributed to hax when it's already failed before and said hax is never mentioned to improve or anything along

Because Trifa is not Reinhard, he has the body and the resistance it grants but not Reinhard's soul and his very own resistances.

>those lines + blatant statement about how high enough sheer power can work and Finale is a bigass boost in term of firepower

Yeah, the boost Fina gets is enough to fight on par with the Einherjars and defeat them one on one when his previous self should be stomped to hell and back just like he was in Rea route before going finale

 

[EMS-TC02_Phantom]

Your argument doesn't really work when the Holy Grail is as hax resistant as Reinhard is. Whatever aspect of Finale that can break it, it wouldn't be through hax precisely because it didn't work before. The fact that the author goes out his way to blatantly mentioned Finale's name rather than Ouverture is pretty obvious

Ren can't even break through Valeria's defense in Kasumi's route and the only time his attack went through, Trifa's hold on the Holy Grail was already shaken + he had used his Beri'ah beforehand. This wouldn't even be a thing if outright bypassing the defense provided by the Holy Grail is something that Bois de Justice can actually do by merit of its curse alone.

Ren cannot pierce through the defense using brute force, he can't still do so through decapitation curse hax. One powerup later the author himself stated he now can, in a situation where the aforementioned decapitation curse hax never improve in any front

His boost is enough to make him breach through the Holy Grail, as stated by the author himself compared some interpretation by a rando on the internet

 

[SleepyTBubble]

If my post wasn't enough (or was taken as a joke)

I am for scaling Finale to Trifa durability

 

[THOK_AST_THOK]

Huh, i remember bringing this up at some point in a thread like a year ago, i think. I can agree to this. An individual having some sort of direct relation/connection to the Throne being uber powerful (their form/attack directly connected to it at least) seems to be a constantly happening stuff throughout the eras. We have Lot in Paradise Lost, Ren in Omega Ewigkeit, and Habaki in Mahamara. We're probably getting a Shamash that share this trait in Zoar and/or a member of Vingolf in Anima Entelecheia too. I wonder whos gonna get that treatment in Ahura Mazda, Magsarion displayed some weird stuff last chapter so it might be him

Also, Masada directly stated Finale in that answer. If he wants to say that Ren can does it through Marie's curse, Masada will simply stated so. The fact that he even bother to made the distinction by specifying a form name should clearly tells you on what hes intending to say

 

[StrongClick]

If both forms have the same hax, the author can just mention Ren's name then. I don't see any reason to regard them as the same when the author made a clear distinction by specifically mentioning a form name here.

 

[Ionliosite]

If Masada says Finale can kill Trifa, and Finale is compared to Glads, then I agree with upgrading it. In fact, wouldn't be compared to Glads make it High 1-A?

 

[Antvasima]

Since Sleepy agrees with this, it is probably fine to apply.

 

[EMS-TC02_Phantom]

If Masada says Finale can kill Trifa, and Finale is compared to Glads, then I agree with upgrading it. In fact, wouldn't be compared to Glads make it High 1-A?

Not to his physical specs. His hax maybe, but he already has a tier 1 stuff listed so maybe just a slight reword from tier 1 stuff through bladey shit to tier 1 stuff through hax

Not sure what a speed amp + time slow being in tier 1 gonna change tbh. It's not like it'll matter to his AP anyway

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

besides that narration that was stated about finale being "another hell" in comparison to glads yeah it would only be for its hax doe my only guess would be the time debuff can effect ppl on that level is probably what's the notion for finale if that's the case

 

[EMS-TC02_Phantom]

Since Sleepy agrees with this, it is probably fine to apply.

Done and applied. This can be closed

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.