• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Removing CM1 from Aeons (Honkai: Star Rail)

Status
Not open for further replies.
Super_Nova said:
I just realized that there’s a really severe misunderstanding about how Type 1/Platonic Universals work in this wiki. I wonder just how many verses are wanked like this.
Click to expand...
Most of that could have been avoided if VSBW didn’t create its own definitions of somethings, like nonduality, for example. CM is facing the same problem right now as nonduality used to.
 
I disagree with the OP and agree with Nether. The OP is also acting strangely, bringing and using HI3 scans to debunk CM1 while also saying that he doesn't care about HI3 and will never play the game, despite HI3 having a huge role in explaining important stuff that is also being used in HSR
 
Enryu_The_Red_Tower said:
I disagree with the OP and agree with Nether. The OP is also acting strangely, bringing and using HI3 scans to debunk CM1 while also saying that he doesn't care about HI3 and will never play the game, despite HI3 having a huge role in explaining important stuff that is also being used in HSR
Click to expand...
It can’t be important enough if you haven’t posted them yet.

I literally said in my first comment on this thread and repeatedly on the OP that if such proof existed to debunk my claims, then you’d be much more than welcome to post them here.

And as I explained, I only used the HI3 scans that were directly used for HSR to make my case here. I intentionally ignored HI3 out of fairness because I’m not intimately acquainted with its scaling—as for all I know, CM1 there can have a completely different reasoning than the one in HSR.

And whilst I no longer think it’s CM1 after my conversation with Voidnether, I am still not going to propose to have it removed because I don’t believe the little amount of discourse made here would give it justice.
 
Arkenis said:
When have higher d concepts been cm1? Or is there more I didn't read (not reading a blog with checks 11,000 words)
Click to expand...
Dimensionality doesn’t even have anything to do with Type 1. What someone needs to prove is that the concept is the what-it-is-to-be of a certain property(s) and that its state of being is entirely detached from those properties.

The verse could have transfinite dimensions and irrelevant layers into High Outer and it wouldn’t even remotely change a thing.
 
Yeah, I agree with CRT. I have long doubted the CM1 path. In my opinion, the path does not qualify as a fundamental concept. The path is merely a philosophical concept formed from the idealism of the universe, and there is no evidence to prove that the path supports anything. I even doubt that it is a Type 3 concept because there is absolutely no evidence that Path supports anything or is anything; it is merely a philosophical concept of the universe and idealism. Therefore, it falls under the non-qualifying concept.
 
Furina003 said:
Yeah, I agree with CRT. I have long doubted the CM1 path. In my opinion, the path does not qualify as a fundamental concept. The path is merely a philosophical concept formed from the idealism of the universe, and there is no evidence to prove that the path supports anything. I even doubt that it is a Type 3 concept because there is absolutely no evidence that Path supports anything or is anything; it is merely a philosophical concept of the universe and idealism. Therefore, it falls under the non-qualifying concept.
Click to expand...
gotta know from which asshole did you pull out the idea that paths that are actually governing the universe somehow fall under that shit
gotta love when only OP post exist and nothing below
 
Voidnether said:
You know, if you actually read the page itself especially about the independence stuff maybe you would've known. Insane saying there's too many words that obfuscate the truth, no.

This is a terrible downgrade, genuinely.

First off, we have the Authority of Finality as an abstract concept, governing the concept of "time" altogether. Whilst being unaffected by it and this is treated as an independence. The concept of time here is treated as a type 2 concept by both Otto Apocalypse or Zandar One Kuwabara.

It is literally explained by Lygus that the way Irontomb kills Nous, is by hijacking THEM and their Path energy which is Erudition towards Destruction. Irontomb is the antithesis of Erudition that reverses all calculations and logic. Essentially making the whole civilization to stone age or predate way before that. This is explained by Lygus in the end of 3.5 where everything becomes a random constant instead of them being predictable in the supposedly new universe. Calling this out as an antifeat is insane when Irontomb only had the potency, the entire storyline was to literally prevent Irontomb from doing that. It did not happen. We listed them as 1-B because they have the potential to do so like Phainon scratching Nanook.

The evidence given is very lacking, and the fact you tried to just get over this with by "Whatever, just gimme some votes." and saying stuff like too much wank, you literally cannot prove how it is a wank when the evidence given against it is actually nonexistent AT ALL. Is there even anything dismissing it other than you questioning stuff? Like atleast prove with the game itself why this supports your interpretation, etc, etc instead of accusing it as nothing more than word salad and vague.

There are two instances of multiple transcendence in the cosmology blog with one of them being accepted as a +1 dimensional gap by transcending reality stuff hence the 1-B. Not to mention, the things about Finality itself being unaffected by time — There's also another transcendence where the Cocoon of Finality just transcends all dimensions entirely. This is already there on Kiana Kaslana's page, the Authority of Finality key.

There are also proof that if an Aeon dies, their Path somehow still exist and this is proven with our protagonist or Argenti or Dan Heng in which all three of them are all walking on the Path that doesn't even have an Aeon anymore which is the Trailblaze, Beauty or Permanence.

Aeons themselves govern reality, and each Aeon has a corresponding Path like what does their part of reality that they govern are in the Imaginary Tree.

Nanook the Destruction “regulates” reality by enforcing the “influence” of destruction and entropy, ensuring that the universe ends in heat death.

Nous the Erudition “regulates” reality by enforcing the “influence” of knowledge and logic.

Xipe the Harmony “regulates” reality by enforcing the “influence” of harmony and order, fighting against the brutal laws of the universe.

IX the Nihility “regulates” reality by enforcing the “influence” of emptiness and nothingness.

HooH the Equilibrium “regulates” reality by enforcing the “influence” of balance. They separate concepts, dividing all beings into interchangeable dualities, combining all ‘positive’ and “negative”.

All of this are in the databank, these influences are also on a larger scale than other smaller Concepts; they consist of things such as Space, Time, Matter, etc. These concepts only exist because they are perceived and conceptualized, which is called the act of “Erudition.” Therefore, these concepts are Type 2 Concepts.

All this being a type 3 concept is funny, when they clearly govern a certain part of reality in the Imaginary Tree that's an universe. Not to mention, the cosmology blog said that the Imaginary Law is superior and the only unbreakable law in the cosmos (universe) compared to Ena's gazillion laws.

I'm on this verse for a year and a half straight just so you know and I'm making sure you won't get away with this thread of yours. What you're doing is just trying to get the staff to FRA you, this is actually so obvious with the last paragraph that you've said.
Click to expand...
@Furina003
 
Voidnether makes sense, disagree with OP

(Also you guys should check out Mightykeef's video on Honkai Star Rail, it's what got me somewhat into Honkai)
 
PedjaTarzan said:
@Furina003
Click to expand...
I'm sorry, but I don't see cm1 there at all. It doesn't even imply that the path supports the entire universe. aeons can change reality, It could just be reality warping and other hax. The point is that the concept must be proven to support something, and if that something is destroyed, the concept still remains. What is being discussed is only the hax from the aeons, not the manipulation of concepts that will be obtained by the path. So, as long as there is no statement that the path supports the universe or anything in its area, it will not obtain any manipulation of concepts. Each path has a different function, so they cannot be equated. For example, destruction cannot use other paths, nor can it use the path of destruction, so what is being explained is only limited to hax for aeons, not cm1 for paths.
 
Furina003 said:
I'm sorry, but I don't see cm1 there at all. It doesn't even imply that the path supports the entire universe. aeons can change reality, It could just be reality warping and other hax. The point is that the concept must be proven to support something, and if that something is destroyed, the concept still remains. What is being discussed is only the hax from the aeons, not the manipulation of concepts that will be obtained by the path. So, as long as there is no statement that the path supports the universe or anything in its area, it will not obtain any manipulation of concepts. Each path has a different function, so they cannot be equated. For example, destruction cannot use other paths, nor can it use the path of destruction, so what is being explained is only limited to hax for aeons, not cm1 for paths.
Click to expand...
Paths (Destruction; Can use all the powers and has all resistances that their Pathstriders and Emanators obtained through the Path of Destruction, as Nanook is the only entity capable of wielding their Path at full capacity and without restriction
Click to expand...
 
Sacrificing read comprehension to be able to write proper english is not a good idea friend, especially when you fumble THIS bad and use actual headcannon rather than scans to prove that
 
Super_Nova said:
So now, can you stop being obtuse and tell me if Paths have always existed or whether an Aeon brings them about? Preferably with a scan please.
Click to expand...
I just think you didn't play the game or read the lore carefully before making a funny post like this.
Concepts already existed since the start but they aren't paths yet. An intelligent lifeform can follow a philosophical concept to the point of becoming one with the concept itself ascends them to Aeon-hood. The birth of an Aeon will then give rise a path that mortals can follow and draw Imaginary power from. But the Aeons are not just manipulating the power of the concept but rather they are the concept itself and their primum mobiles restrict them from acting out of their paths. After a path is opened, everything that is related to the concept will be attributed to the path. But since a path won't close even after Aeon dies, it exists forever.
Reckless, wrathful, and destructive actions are manifestations of the Path of Destruction.
Decisive, ruthless, and vengeful actions are manifestations of the Path of The Hunt.
Thoughtful, logical, and strategic actions are manifestations of the Path of Erudition.
Understanding, supportive, and cooperative actions are manifestations of the Path of Harmony.
Slothful, exhausted, and meaningless actions are manifestations of the Path of Nihility.
Patient, sacrificial, and protective actions are manifestations of the Path of Preservation.
Selfless, altruistic, and healing actions are manifestations of the Path of Abundance.
- Loading Screen Descriptions
Click to expand...
So the order will be like
You got Type 1 concepts that influence the universe -> An Aeon become the concept itself -> give rise to a philosophical path mortals can follow.

I think this is the most basic of the basic that is explained in the game since the start.
 
PedjaTarzan said:
Sacrificing read comprehension to be able to write proper english is not a good idea friend, especially when you fumble THIS bad and use actual headcannon rather than scans to prove that
Click to expand...
I apologize if my English isn’t very good, but I’m not making a headcanon there’s simply no statement saying that the Path is a fundamental concept that supports everything within its domain and is independent of what it supports. That’s the basic requirement of CM1.
 
I disagree with the CRT, but I agree that the current justification is insufficient, and I would like to see the Aeons' CM1 replaced by the evidence Nether provided. That's all I have to say.
 
Weaver261 said:
I just think you didn't play the game or read the lore carefully before making a funny post like this.
Concepts already existed since the start but they aren't paths yet. An intelligent lifeform can follow a philosophical concept to the point of becoming one with the concept itself ascends them to Aeon-hood. The birth of an Aeon will then give rise a path that mortals can follow and draw Imaginary power from. But the Aeons are not just manipulating the power of the concept but rather they are the concept itself and their primum mobiles restrict them from acting out of their paths. After a path is opened, everything that is related to the concept will be attributed to the path. But since a path won't close even after Aeon dies, it exists forever.

So the order will be like
You got Type 1 concepts that influence the universe -> An Aeon become the concept itself -> give rise to a philosophical path mortals can follow.

I think this is the most basic of the basic that is explained in the game since the start.
Click to expand...
Firstly, let me mention that you actually have to prove that these other concepts you’re mentioning are Type 1 to begin with and also:

but rather they are the concept itself and […]
Click to expand...
Then why does the Aeon getting affected mean absolutely nothing in regards to that concept? If Long is the universal of Permanence itself, why does “Permanence” as an intelligible notion still exist after their death?

It’s simple, because they literally aren’t that concept. Even Paths themselves are merely a special kind of energy emanated from an Aeon after ascension. And the powers of that Path are merely a reflection of the philosophies they follow. Because at the end of the day, Aeons are higher-dimensional beings that represent and embody certain philosophies and whatnot.
 
Furina003 said:
Yeah, I agree with CRT. I have long doubted the CM1 path. In my opinion, the path does not qualify as a fundamental concept. The path is merely a philosophical concept formed from the idealism of the universe, and there is no evidence to prove that the path supports anything. I even doubt that it is a Type 3 concept because there is absolutely no evidence that Path supports anything or is anything; it is merely a philosophical concept of the universe and idealism. Therefore, it falls under the non-qualifying concept.
Click to expand...
Nah, conceptual objects exist in Honkai. There’s no issue with CM3 in that regard.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Voidnether
  • Locked
Honkai: Star Rail — Regarding the Aeons
Replies
24
Views
3K
TWILIGHT-OP
TWILIGHT-OP
SuperNova55555
  • Locked
Bro, who keeps giving Honkai dudes these hax
3 4 5
Replies
193
Views
13K
SuperNova55555
SuperNova55555
Mbpoops
  • Locked
quick irontomb removal
Replies
8
Views
1K
Mbpoops
Mbpoops
Mbpoops
quick Imaginary energy crt
Replies
23
Views
1K
Mbpoops
Mbpoops
SuperNova55555
  • Locked
On Aeonic Scaling (Honkai)
5 6 7
Replies
263
Views
13K
Reiner04
Reiner04
Back
Top