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Reinhard Heydrich Vs The Emperor of Mankind

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FateAlbane said:
And sorry, but when you don't actually try to argue your points, saying instead "this is false my point still stands", without explaining the how and why, it doesn't hold much ground. It just sounds like you denying a point without providing any actual proof or reasoning for what you're suggesting.

Which in turn, makes your arguments moot.
Click to expand...
I don't recall ignoring Matthew's point, I even stated that I read his post but disagreed. I gave my point on why I disagreed also so I don't understand the problem here.
 
You think the castle or the location where this feat takes place is higher dimensional? But didn't he say that that thing takes place in a lower domain of the Warp that isn't Higher Dimensional or something? If so, then it would naturally scale to restricted Slaanesh (or at least it's what I understood from it. Granted, my knowledge on 40k isn't that big either atm).
 
Actually the link you provided seems to confirm at least part of what Matthew said about Tze-whatever's domain being the only one mentioned like that right here:

"Tzeentch's realm, known as the Crystal Labyrinth, twists through nine dimensions. It is important to note that this is only mentioned for Tzeentch, and not the other gods, despite all being on a similar playing field in terms of power."

But then we also have this:

"This is because, as is repeatedly stated, the Chaos Gods do not care about physical dimensions. They are beyond time, space, and all physics. They are the antithesis to what is "real". Tzeentch's realm is not nine-dimensional because that is the limit of his power, but because it echoes his sacred number, which is nine."

...Which makes kinda uncertain for me considering lack of full knowledge about the series. In that case, we might want to wait for Matthew or someone like Aparajita (I'd also say Azathoth, but he's not involved on this thread) who has a load of knowledge about 40k to clarify (or provide proof) regarding the nature of this lower domain.
 
The Warp is beyond such trivial things as physical space, time, and causality.
~ Azathoth​
That sounds higher-dimensional to me but I could be wrong. I agree we should wait for someone more knowledgeable in regards to the verse.
 
People need to separate mythological feats of the Emperor, aka rumors to hyped up versions told by the Imperial cult like the "Storm of the Emperor's Wrath", and the legit Emperor feats ones.

Even the FTL feats don't even match up what's shown in the novel and the codex. We even see the Emperor getting choked by a War boss and that War boss wasn't even moving at FTL speed. And some of it are just taking out of context to false justify FTL movement speeds and what not.

In the latest Novel we actually see the Emperor himself fighting in the frontlines, but his feats doesn't even match up to the ones posted on his profile page. We saw the Emperor fighting at full power and all we see was him teleporting all over the place and the getting one shot by a greater daemon. The Emperor then seals the Daemon because isn't powerful enough to kill it and sacrifice one of his most trusted Custodes so that he can escape.

Canonically the Emperor isn't even close to a Warp God, and he had a hard time fighting off a Daemon prince that didn't display any sort of "Solar System level" feats or even planet destroying feats until after the Horus heresy; he's getting some of the worship power.

TL;DR: Somebody needs to fix the Emperor's profile page with legit information. Because there's literally no one fighting at FTL speeds in 40k aside from fan interpretations of certain events. Not in the codex and certainly not in the novels.

I mean the Emperor didn't even punch the void dragon all the way to mars. That's a pretty big and obvious lie.

The Emperor beat the weakened and injured Void dragon on earth and shipped it to Mars. The Emperor hasn't shown any feats of close to moving relativistic combat speed.

All we know is that he can teleport a huge distance, likely anywhere in the Solar System but the Emperor isn't capable of Teleporting outside the Solar System until after he got his power boost on Molec.

Even with the power boost he's still wasn't capable of at relativistic combat speed. He still got his ass kicked by a Greater Daemon 1 on 1 with none of the feats posted in his profile ever happening at all. Most of which consist of fan conjectures and hyperboles.
 
Emperor fighting Horus is literally CiS. Emperor didn't want to hurt Horus, even up to the moment that he killed him, the Emperor cried when he obliterated Horus with little more than a stray thought.

Why would the Emperor's tale involving the Void Dragon be lies, when his lesser space marines are capable of fighting Daemon Princes and C'tan Shards and Avatars?

Canonlogically, the Emperor's psychic will is strong enough to hold back 4 entities that are capable of navigating at least 9-D space with absolute ease.

We also see Goku getting owned by a laser and almost dying in the center of the Earth. This is called Outliers and PIS. Authors are not required to be consistent with their scaling.

We also have the Emperor's psychic might (which he didn't use on Ullanar for reasons) strong enough to penetrate the ******* Webway while Chaos Forces itself couldn't do it.


We have lesser, weak Tzneecht demons blowing up stars and corrupting entire solar systems.

We have "forces strong enough to level planets" unleashed in casual fighting between the Emperor and Horus before either got serious.

We have Magnus and Leman Russ exchanging "hundreds of blows in seconds" in Magnus' novel.

We also have a Marine (i don't recall his name, hopefully Azathoth does) who obtained a tiny fraction of the Emperor's power and percieved lightspeed lasers as "a crawl."
 
Yeah, Emprah<<<<<Greater Daemons is bullshit. Once of Sanguinius' most famous exploits during the Horus Heresy was defeating and outright killing Khorne's strongest Bloodthirster. No way is the Emperor weaker than his son.
 
I think that the EOM would win this on the back of time manipulation plus the fact that he can utterly erase any single being using the attack he used on Horus which I am currently blanking on the name of. The rest of their hax seem to cancel eachother out, also in regards to the Ork Warboss choke thing, that was probably related to the fact that that Ork was one of the biggest Orks ever seen and that that he was the leader of the biggest empire of Orks ever seen. I am pretty sure having that much WAGHH!!! energy in you would also make you able to choke the EOM. Also when in hell did the EOM lose to a singular greater daemon considering that he can contend with the Chaos Gods themselves? But yeah I vote for the Emperor.

Edit: The Molech power thing was purely for the power to make the Primarchs, not to buff himself, this was pretty obvious in Venegeful Spirit after Horus got it and stated it directly. That is why the Primarchs and to a certain extent the Space marines have such a dominating effect on regular humans, they are sortve like daemons because they have vague hints of warp energy infused in to their geneseed. For instance most humans cannot meet Primarchs or even space marines eye to eye without freaking out, most faint or get queasy.

Edit 2: Oh, I just remembered about the solo greater daemon thing, the event you are talking about is the webway hole in the imperial palace. The EOM was dealing with the deamon which is now inside Abbadons sword, Drachn'yen, which btw was the daemon made after the first murder so he was pretty high up there in the daemon ranks. Anyway, the only reason the EOM had an issue was that the daemon was constantly possesing his men so even if he sealed the rift he would still have to deal with this daemon so he got one of his trusted custodes that he knew was very loyal to do it and shoved Drachn'yen into him and ordered him to run into the rift and sacrifice himself for the greater good. While that may sound sortve bad, you have to understand the EOM's positions, he has been sitting on the Golden Throne constantly maintaing the astronomican and making sure the rift doesn get bigger and this is his only chance to possibly seal it. So he made the only choice he could to get rid of this daemon and the rift. So no this does not count as the EOM losing to one greater daemon. Note: This is mainly off memory so if I am wrong please tell me so I can check up on it.
 
I was sleeping.

The Palace of Slaanesh is not Higher-Dimensional because it is literally designed to corrupt and gather mortals. It's not meant for Higher-Dimensional Universe-Creating daemons or anything like that. The Palace of Slaanesh has an appearance that can easily be understood by humans, places humans can move around with ease, and all it's temptations are tangible and easily understood by humans.

Some of the descriptions of how you'll die if you fall to the Circles' temptations are also incredibly mundane and simplistic, like the vines from the trees choking you while you are at peace and begin meditating on the last few Circles.

Edit:

If we want to talk about The Emperor, we can also bring up this woman, Ephrael Ster. She's an ordinary psyker who absorbed the souls of 700 Adeptus Sororitas, and thanks to that soul power-boost, she is capable of doing wonderful little feats like:

  • Killing a Culexus Assassin with Psychic Powers
  • One-shotting a Greater Daemon
  • And having a statement that with her power she could "Murder the stars themselves", and another statement that she's the strongest weapon of the Imperium since the Primarchs (Which matches her feats).
She is all of that... With the souls of 700 people. Meanwhile, The Emperor requires the souls of 1,000 of the Galaxy's most powerful Psykers every single day, just to stay barely alive as a rotting corpse.

So no, claiming that a Greater Daemon > Emperor is idiotic.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
The Palace of Slaanesh is not Higher-Dimensional because it is literally designed to corrupt and gather mortals. It's not meant for Higher-Dimensional Universe-Creating daemons or anything like that. The Palace of Slaanesh has an appearance that can easily be understood by humans, places humans can move around with ease, and all it's temptations are tangible and easily understood by humans.
Click to expand...
In the Warp, things are different, for the immaterium is not bound by linear four-dimensional time, and events do not occur in a strict sequence of cause and effect.
Again, this seems higher-dimensional. If the Warp itself is higher-dimensional, then why isn't Slaanesh's palace also? Especially if Slaanesh's castle is located inside the Warp.
 
From what I understood, it's made that way to tempt the mortals and stuff (also, Slaanesh seems to have a thing for the "mundane and material" from what I heard so far, so it makes sense in the context). Also, I think it's made like that because you can't really be tempted by something that you wouldn't understand at all - i. e. Anything based on higher dimensions and there would be no temptation because no one would understand jack of what is around them.
 
Slaanesh is the Chaos God most connect to mortals, as they are the embodiment of Pleasure and Pain, and has a special interest into tempting mortals.

Also, not all the Warp is Higher-Dimensional. The Warp is the realm of souls, thoughts and concepts, and it does have lower-domains to it which are not Higher-Dimensional.

Slaanesh's castle is made that way to tempt humans, eldars and mortals alike. It's designed so we can comprehend and interact with it.
 
I'm sorry but can you provide scans/proof on the Warp not being entirely higher-dimensional.

Slaanesh was only "born" from the perspective of linear time, but the Warp is itself is beyond such things, and thus Slaanesh is, was, and always has been.
~ Azathoth's blog​
Higher-dimensional entities can still interact with lower beings. And the fact that Slaanesh is an Abstract further proves my point given most Abstracts are Universal Constants.
 
Can you not read my post?

Please explain how humans can eat Higher-Dimensional food, or breathe the "air" of a higher-dimensional forest, or touch and hold Higher-Dimensional diamonds, or lust for and have sex with higher-dimensional people, or swim in a Higher-Dimensional lake?

These are all things that can be done in Slaanesh's Circles, which are specially designed to touch and affect 3D beings.
 
Before anyone answers this... May I ask what's it exactly that you're debating by trying to debase the mind point?

It was said many times above that the mind thing is not even the main point of the match. And, furthermore, that Reinhard might resist the mindf*ck while the emperor is confirmed to have powerful mind powers of his own (even if we forget the whole Slaanesh castle for a sec, which I'll let another person elaborate.... Even more on that if they want).

I'm not certain on exactly what you want to prove for the match in trying to debase this feat. If this point gets through or not, It would probably just put the mind stuff where it already is again: Reinhard can resist mind stuff and everyone knows that. While the emperor has mind powers anyways and everyone also knows that.

Sooo...
 
Point: You've been questioning everything the emperor can do. o__Õ If you don't agree with the powers, shouldn't you, I dunno, make a revision thread or something? If it gets through, sure, we go with your point. A VS Thread is not the place to be questioning everything one character can or can't do when it's already well known that they can do that.
 
The same argument rebuttals -sigh-

I guess the "higher-dimensional entities can still interact with lower beings" don't apply here?
 
Your "arguing" has already been answered time and time again. Just stop and move on, you're embarrassing yourself by pushing it.
 
The point I'm making is that this so called point getting through or not does not change anything. It's literally going in circles for a point that doesn't matter at all in the general outcome. In fact, we're explaining time and again a point that is moot on the big picture of the match whether the answer to it is yes or no.

Will Reinhard kill the emperor by resisting mind-attacks or vice-versa?

This is what I'm getting at.
 
Sir, I refuted your point in like, three different posts. If the answer doesn't drill into your head, it's not my problem.
 
@Fate

Reinhard cannot kill the Emperor with mind-hax at all. Even without Slaanesh's thing, they will most likely just null each-other.
 
@Matt Yeah. That's what I'm saying. Meaning that, again, we're wasting time explaining points against points that by the end of the day, are moot.

...Great.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
Sir, I refuted your point in like, three different posts. If the answer doesn't drill into your head, it's not my problem.
Click to expand...
You never answered how Slaanesh on a higher plane of existence feats should scale to its lower-dimensional and restricted form.
 
When will you understand that even if we disregard this whole thing altogether the end-result for this so-called point will remain the same (probably never by the looks of things)... Talk about derailing.

EDIT: Also he explained like five times already.
 
FateAlbane said:
When will you understand that even if we disregard this whole thing altogether the end-result for this so-called point will remain the same (probably never by the looks of things)... Talk about derailing.

EDIT: Also he explained like five times already.
Click to expand...
Apparently asking how the Emperor resists Reinhard's hax is derailment. Slaanesh is nothing more than a placeholder.
 
Wow this is actually crazy.

All I did was ask a simple question that if anything seemed as though it was forgotten. But apparently it was somehow refuted?

Yeah I'm done, just removed my score or whatever.
 
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