Reinhard and Satella Ability Removals

[Celestial_Pegasus]

So basically both Reinhard van Astrea and Satella (Re:Zero) have abilities based on assumptions which don't have any proof for at the moment, and as such should be removed.

For satella all the abilities she has from the witches should be removed since we don't have proof that she has all the other witches abilities, only sehkmets, so pretty much everything should be removed except spatial manipulation, time manipulation, can create 2000 invisible hands that can go intangible, darkness manipulation, immortality (type 1 and 2 only), death manipulation, soul manipulation, possession and bfr.

For reinhard some of his resistances should be removed. Time stop is based on the assumption that satella's time stop wouldn't work on him but we don't know at the moment since they haven't fought yet, although i think he should have resistance cause with timestop satella should be able to one shot him if he didn't have resistance but satella's abilities have worked on him before like him being affected by her spatial manipulation. Intangibility was also from satella, transmutation was on the assumption that capella archbishop of lust's authority wouldn't work on reinhard, memory manipulation and existence erasure, from archbishop of geed, again based on assumption his ability wouldn't work on reinhard, which in an if is actually shown that greed's ability does work on him in that he forgets people who have been erased from existence just like everyone else, just a what if story though so might not be accurate in the main story.

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

I'll repost from the general thread.


Why do we remove the resistances for Reid Reinhard? Even if Satella doesn't have them, he will still be killed by other Witches if he is without those resistances. That goes against canon.

We may remove the manipulations for Satella but not remove the resistances, as he still retains resistances against other Witches separately.

This goes the same for Satella's resistances, because if she didn't have those resistances, she would not be able to defeat the other Witches.


I addressed as well that Satella's manipulation have been shown to work only when Reinhard is in his Base form. He is already unable to fight her when he does not use Reid. Therefore this will affect his base stats, but not his Reid form where he require the resistances to not contradict Author's statement.

 

[ZERO7772]

Lets hope enough people will come here ~

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Being able to defeat someone =/= to having resistance to their abilties, satella is far superior to the other witches in dc and speed plus being immortal, she doesn't need resistance to their abilities to beat them, plus there is that whole plot point of satella not actually being the one to kill them, which is confusing since it was said beofre she consumed them, we don't really know who killed them.

Also about reinhard you know he has precog right? He is not exactly without hax, precog+superior dc and speed equals dead witches.

Might have an argument for reinhard with reid having resistance to satella's abilities but idk, would seem stupid to me if satella has time stop and could just one shot reinhard, will look at this later, going to bed.

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

Posting again. Just reply here.


Killing someone is not a resistance feat. Preventing someone from killing you is the resistance feat. They are two different things.

Base Reinhard has the same speed as all the Witches aside from Minerva. Echidna is hypersonic+. They scale from Theresia.

DC is not directly comparable with hax, by the way. Saitama has no soul manipulation resistance.

Immortality has no effect on someone controlling your mind. You would become a mind-controlled immortal.

Therefore even an immortal requires resistance against mind manipulation.


Minerva was killed by Satella.

 

[ZERO7772]

Well i will come check this later after seeing everyone opinions and i will drop mine

hopefuly i will see other beside CP and Heinkel xD

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

As far as I know Witch Genes = Authorities. Not of the Archbishops whose are different and their strengths differ, but those of the Witches. The Authorities get weaker only if the new host is weaker than the previous host.

Authority (µ¿®Þâ¢): See Authority.

Witch Genes (Ú¡öÕÑ│ÕøáÕ¡É): Witch Genes are special genes that enable people to use Authorities.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that this seems to make sense.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

@Heinkel Base reinhard has ftl reactions, and you know his speed is lowballed right? He is far superior to theresia, and should probably be mhs+ for keeping up with cecilius who is stated to be lightning speed, but i haven't tried upgrading him cause all i have is a summary of cecilius vs reinhard, so the witches speed aren't comparable to reinhard, he speed bitzes them plus precog.

Satella speed blitzes and kills all the witches, plus she even without their abilities she still has mind and soul hax. Hax is useless if you are too slow to use it. We need proof of the resistances, not assumptions.

 

[ZERO7772]

I lost interest tbh so i will make it short

I have the same opinion as Pegasus Reinhard should only have the resistances he showed feat to everything else should be removed , Time stop tho should stay there i think

Same for satella remove all her abilities beside her own "and sekhmet"

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Idk about timestop, seems like a one shot move that reinhard has to have resistance to otherwise he gets one shotted, then again you could say the same about reid, he fought her for a while and even injured her.

Then there is the fact that satella's miasma warping space was the reason why reinhard couldn't get to the sage tower. Could that just be pis? I can't see how reinhard can stalemate satella when she can stop time, warp space, and obviously bfr things since she pulled subaru from another world and is superior to beatrice in ying magic to where she can reverse time which is seen as some sort of godly feat that not even beatrice can do, although all we have seen so far is base reinhard. Only explaination that makes sense is if he gains those resistances with reid, this would mean though that everyone who gets reid gets resistances like this.

 

[ZERO7772]

This is Assumption over assumption

Your first suggest seems responsible to me with adding time stop to rei-chan , i won't say anything beyond that

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

So what do you think, give reinhard timestop resistance and all satella's other abilities except spatial manipulation then? Him not having resistance to spatial manipulation is throwing me off, i would say for now just give him resistance to what he has shown so far, and forget about giving him resistance to satella or any one else.

 

[Antvasima]

I also think that he should only have the resistances that he has demonstrated.

 

[ZERO7772]

I agree with ant

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Agreed

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Since we have some agreement here, and this is unlikely to get anymore input i will perform the changes.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Just a thought, but now that resistance to time stop is no longer on his profile Reinhard's battle with Dante might bear redoing or something since the immunity to the Bangle of Time was key to the outcome.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Yea that win needs to be removed, i can't edit dante's page to remove so you need a content mod for that.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Maybe show this thread to one of them?

Edit: Never mind. Kudos to CrossverseCrisis for reacting so quickly.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

I removed it for you guys.

And i agree with the others above. If Reinhard in-canon of the LN has shown resistances to such abilities, then it would stay on there. But if it's just guesswork and assumptions and something he has (yet) to actually show, then it would have to be removed. At least for the time being then.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

We have a thread for removals, you can request it be removed there, as the match is outdated due to this thread.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Oh thanks Cross. I have already applied the changes, all his resistances on his profile now are what he has resisted so far, and likewise with satella i removed all the other witches abilities.

 

[Random-Helper323]

The battle's still on Reinhard's page, just so you know.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

No problem. Like i said, when he has shown the abilities to resist such things, hopefully because i actually find him unique this way btw, it can be put back fine. (Nods)

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

I am sure he has more resistances especially to the other archbishops abilities like for instance when he faced off with sirius, her authority didn't work in him, pretty sure if he faced off with any other archbishop the result would be the same, he has been resistant to almost everything he has come upon so far and we don't have that many battles with him, and they are all but untranslated, but there is no proof that he has more resistances so we just have to go off what he has resisted so far for now.

Being anti-hax exclusively is not all that common yes, i do wish he had more attack hax, but i am ok with how he is now.

 

[Random-Helper323]

I should point out the battle is still on Reinhard's page.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

I'm pretty sure anyone like Celestial can take that off.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Removed it

 

[Random-Helper323]

I know. I'm pointing it out to him so he knows.

Edit: Never mind.

 

[Gargoyle_1]

Wait, if you're removing Reinhards time resistance. Should we remove his win against Dante? That was one of the biggest reasons he won.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Already done.

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

So, are we going to assume from now on that Satella does not have Time Stop, and her ability to Stop Time to kill Emilia or Subaru (if he tries to tell Reinhard who she cannot hurt) are not usable?







Q: In the past, Miss Minerva was trapped by the elves, but what on earth were they thinking?

A: The elves were collateral damage in an effort to make Minerva-tan fall into a trap. The elves were sent as a suicide squad, and in order to save them, Minerva-tan ran, fell under the influence of the time authorities, Witch Time.


I just need clarification so that I know what I can expect in the future.

And take note that this revision means none of Satella's stats can scale from Reinhard anymore, such as speed. Like, she never showed FTL in the story.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

No satella still has timestop, wait i just remembered something actually, it was stated that if subaru tried to tell reinhard about return by death his heart would pop, and not reinhards like in the emilia case when he told her about return by death, satella killed emilia, but if it's reinhard she would rather kill subaru, i think there is a case here that her unseen hands wouldn't work on reinhard.

We are just saying we don't know how reinhard and satella's abilities would interact with each other so we can't just start throwing resistances around. Her speed being scaled to reinhard is still ok cause satella is stated to be able to stalemate reinhard and even without reinhard, she was able to fight reid whom she eventually overwhelmed, and reid is FTL.

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

Actually, if she keeps her Time Stop then it means she won't necessarily need to be FTL to defeat Reid. She can choose to slow him down instead. FTL won't be a requirement in that case.

So Reinhard can ignore intangibliity? Julius can cut intangible Unseen Hands.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Huh, you are looking too deep into this, we don't even know the limits to satella's time stop, and for all we know reid could possibly be able to cut through time since cutting through anything seems to be his stick, we know reid fought satella and was overwhelmed eventually which is why he needed the sage and dragons help to seal satella, that is all, we don't know the specifics of the battle we shouldn't try to over analyze this and just leave satella's speed alone until we get evidence to the contrary. And she would need to on the same level of speed as reid to activate her time stop and not get speedblitz if she was fighting reid.

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

I mean that's the same logic for removing hax instead of speed.

I don't know, it doesn't make sense to me that Reid wouldn't be able to cut his way out of a Time Stop, when you just said, he can.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

The unseen hands aren't always intangible, they can turn it on and off, so no reinhard can't ignore intangibility nor can julius.

And yes i think reinhard has resistance to satella's abilities and a lot more, and i think reid can possibily cut through time, the thing is i don't have proof, that's what we need here proof, not too many assumptions. I mean we still haven't seen a flashback of satella vs reid fight and reinhard and satella haven't fought yet either so we don't know how those fights would go in detail, we would just be working off a lot of assumptions here.

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

Like, you can make an argument that Reinhard can defeat all the Witches because he's just plain stronger and faster, but you can't make the same argument to explain why Reinhard can keep up with the time hax (and other haxes) of Satella, who is equal in strength and speed, if he does not have those resistances.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Well see the thing is reinhard is stated to be the strongest character, so maybe you coud make the argument reinhard will dominate satella and she can't do anything, and he is again just faster and stronger and satella can't get the chance to use her hax, all tappei said was reinhard vs satella would be a stalemate, we don't know the exact reasons why. Him being affected by spatial manipulation of just her miasma and not even the real satella at full power, doesn't make the case that he has resistance to all her abilities look good.