Reid Astrea vs Lee Geon (3-0-4)

[Phoenks]

Whatever it is, it's proof at least that Gun doesn't need to actually touch you to hit you. So the wincon of him just going like "lol no" and AP stomping from a distance IS viable, now that I know he is 4-A.

Now, if you believe Reid wins anyway despite this, or if you disagree with it, power to you.

He's also used it a total of one time in the series according to you.

You're betting on him using it within the first second of the match after he's been incapped by fear aura.

 

[azontr]

He's also used it a total of one time in the series according to you.

True, but you need to take into account that Gun has several forms of information Analysis, one which let's him know the opponents abilities in the form of a screen display like in a video game.

Knowing that him using this is in IC to decipher Reid's abilities, you can see that Gun might not want to get close to him to attack, right?

 

[Zabazab]

I don't know what I ignored, or rather might've missed.

I don't see a reason why Reid's fear aura shouldn't work given Geon has no resistence and Reid's aura knocked Subaru, who also has supernatural willpower, on his ass with fear.

They can absolutely both kill the other, I just think Reid winning is more likely due to this.

 

[ShionAH]

He's also used it a total of one time in the series according to you.

You're betting on him using it within the first second of the match after he's been incapped by fear aura.

Why wouldnt he use it? He is bloodlusted and wants to win no matter what.

 

[Phoenks]

Why wouldnt he use it? He is bloodlusted and wants to win no matter what.

Because according to Azontr he's always bloodlusted and still doesn't use that ability from the jump.

Also, again, bloodlusted doesn't mean you will instantly use your best win con.

True, but you need to take into account that Gun has several forms of information Analysis, one which let's him know the opponents abilities in the form of a screen display like in a video game.

Knowing that him using this is in IC to decipher Reid's abilities, you can see that Gun might not want to get close to him to attack, right?

Assuming it even works on Reid who has resisted forms of Info Analysis before... Are you sure it isn't too slow? Like, Reid is going to start by cutting. If he takes any amount of time to info analysis and then think to do his paralysis TK thing (WHILE affected by fear aura), he loses.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Reid FRA

 

[azontr]

Assuming it even works on Reid who has resisted forms of Info Analysis before...

Does he resist Gun's form of info analysis?

 

[ShionAH]

Because according to Azontr he's always bloodlusted and still doesn't use that ability from the jump.

He isnt always bloodlusted. He barely takes anyone serious

I am leaving though these voters are getting on my nerves

 

[Phoenks]

Does he resist Gun's form of info analysis?

Actually, probably not.

However, actually what would Geon even see with Info Analysis?

Reid's world isn't based on game mechanics type skills and stuff.

All of his swordsmanship and stuff is just his natural ability. Can he even see that?

 

[Zabazab]

Leaning on no, Geon's seems video-gamey and this is Reid's info analysis resistence.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Assuming it even works on Reid who has resisted forms of Info Analysis before

Does his?

 

[azontr]

Also, are we saying Reid's fear aura works on Gun based on the fact that he can do so on people who have strong willpower?

Subaru's willpower is definitely impressive as well, and Reid knocked him on his ass just by standing there.

What exactly is Subaru's willpower?

 

[Zabazab]

Reid never resisted info analysis, he just scale to someone who does, you still correct trought.

Incorrect correction. Reid has a feat of resisting it, check his page.

 

[Phoenks]

Also, are we saying Reid's fear aura works on Gun based on the fact that he can do so on people who have strong willpower?


What exactly is Subaru's willpower?

No.

Reid's fear aura works on people who just blatantly resist fear hax. It's not even just willpower.

But for context Subaru can withstand the auras of powerful witches who can fear hax people to varying degrees up to making them commit suicide, throw up, paralyzed, or go insane and stuff.

And Reid made him instinctively drop to his knees and feel pain just by standing there.


Subaru's willpower is whole other animal I don't even want to get into. And I shouldn't need to any way. It's among the best on the wiki tbh.

 

[Zabazab]

What exactly is Subaru's willpower?

Experiencing death countless times, an experience that broke the mind of another character with supernatural willpower after just ~20 deaths.

Dying is described as the most horrific experience that no human heart can remain intact after going through. He's also remained calm will having his blood boiled which is neat.

He also just straight up resists fear hax, yet Reid's aura dropped him instantly.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Leaning on no, Geon's seems video-gamey and this is Reid's info analysis resistence.

Is this the resistance? Ok, then i gonna go now. I done.

 

[azontr]

No.

Reid's fear aura works on people who just blatantly resist fear hax. It's not even just willpower.

But for context Subaru can withstand the auras of powerful witches who can fear hax people to varying degrees up to making them commit suicide, throw up, paralyzed, or go insane and stuff.

And Reid made him instinctively drop to his knees and feel pain just by standing there.

Well, to begin with, Gun resists Empathic Manipulation with Fear Manipulation being a subset of that. Doesn't count for much if Reid's is layered, but, just saying.

Experiencing death countless times, an experience that broke the mind of another character with supernatural willpower after just ~20 deaths.

Dying is described as the most horrific experience that no human heart can remain intact after going through. He's also remained calm will having his blood boiled which is neat.

Lee Gun literally experienced having to fight for 20 years straight against Calamities which continuously respawned in higher quantities each time you killed them, while missing an arm, having been stabbed through his chest, and having his body continuously destroyed by the use of his own powers since using Magic without divine protection destroys you from the inside-out and rapidly accelerates aging (he's like 20 but when using his powers he has the body of a guy in like his seventies), while having nothing but a dagger in his teeth.

 

[Phoenks]

Well, to begin with, Gun resists Empathic Manipulation with Fear Manipulation being a subset of that. Doesn't count for much if Reid's is layered, but, just saying.

Well to begin Reid's is indeed layered.

Lee Gun literally experienced having to fight for 20 years straight against Calamities which continuously respawned in higher quantities each time you killed them, while missing an arm, having been stabbed through his chest, and having his body continuously destroyed by the use of his own powers since using Magic without divine protection destroys you from the inside-out and rapidly accelerates aging (he's like 20 but when using his powers he has the body of a guy in like his seventies), while having nothing but a dagger in his teeth.

No, really, let's not.

We're talking about a guy who will literally die a hundred million times in the most brutal ways to save a single loop if he's prompted.

And has died tens of times as a literal child in brutal ways and just willpower through it.

He's experienced being burned alive, eaten alive, stabbed, shot, magic'd, lmfao. Like almost anything, he's experienced it before.

Like, let's just not. Subaru willpower is wild and his profile doesn't do it justice.

 

[Fezzih_007]

He also just straight up resists fear hax, yet Reid's aura dropped him instantly.

Man, the fear hax go away pretty quickly, the characters can stand around then aftwerwords just fine.
I kinda iffy about being layered.

 

[ShionAH]

Man, the fear hax go away pretty quickly, the characters can stand around then aftwerwords just fine.
I kinda iffy about being layered.

Yeah I feel like some kind of wank is happening rn about this fear stuff…

 

[Phoenks]

Yeah I feel like some kind of wank is happening rn about this fear stuff…

It's not wank at all. Subaru has legitimate fear hax resistance and felt fear from Reid whose aura is just... Stronger than witches.

In fact I'd say it's downplayed due to the nature of Re: Zero's god tiers being so vague.

 

[azontr]

We're talking about a guy who will literally die a hundred million times in the most brutal ways to save a single loop if he's prompted.

Did he actually die a hundred million times? If so, evidence?

And has died tens of times as a literal child in brutal ways and just willpower through it.

So? Not comparable to fighting for 20 years straight without rest while having your body rapidly destroyed and aged by your own abilities. Even with these handicaps and having to face continuously spawning monsters, he killed SO MANY of them they couldn't spawn fast enough to overpower him.

Like, this is literally not even on the same level.

Has experienced being burned alive, eaten alive, stabbed, shot, magic'd, lmfao.

Gun's feat is better than all this combined.

 

[Phoenks]

Again, just not gonna go into the willpower debate as it's not relevant to the thread.

Subaru has feats upon feats upon feats I can bring up, but I don't want to get into that. Also, yes, in an alternative story, he did indeed die over 100,000,000 times to save everyone.

BTW burning alive is scientifically one of the worst pains a person can experience.



Going back to the thread, Reid's fear hax is layered and no it's not wanked.

So, any other comments?

 

[azontr]

Again, just not gonna go into the willpower debate as it's not relevant to the thread.

It is definitely relevant, tho. Supernatural Willpower is widely accepted to be able to overpower fear auras if sufficient. If Gun's willpower (along with his fear resistance) is beyond what Reid's aura is shown to overpower, then it is DEFINITELY very relevant.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Zabazab voted Reid, are you gonna count his vote?

 

[Zabazab]

This is what just ~20 deaths did to a character with supernatural willpower, if you've got a minute to have a wee read.

Rather short black hair and stabbing sanpaku eyes, with short legs for such a long torso, wearing a shabby appearance. It was the boy.

His name was Natsuki Subaru. The existence Louis herself had become one with as a Witch Factor, and――

Rui: “――Ah."

――And, the being of unimaginable insanity, wielding the Authority which had the ability to Return by Death.

Rui: “N-NOOOOOooooooOOOOOooOOoOOoooo―― ~tsu!!”

Rui opened her mouth, and screamed.
As long as the strength remained, as long as the possibility remained, with complete devotion, she screamed.

Should she have not done that, she would be crushed by the pressure. By the terror, by the menace, by the despair.

She would get snared in the insanity of a lunatic, who repeated and resumed continuing Death time after time.

Rui: “Don’t want to die! We don’t want to die! Hate it, hate it hate it hate it hate it, hate it hate it hate it hate it hate it hate it! Hate it! Hate iiit ~tsu!!”

Swinging her head, collapsing onto the bare ground, so Rui frantically appealed while drawing back.

By assimilating with that existence, Rui had personally experienced Death. She had tasted it. By being taken in by the soul who practiced Return by Death by her own volition, she had experienced Return by Death firsthand, which turned back even time.

The memories of Death that had been incomplete as merely Natsuki Subaru’s Memories.

After all, memories were naught but memories. The sensational impact of never returning again upon letting go even once of that instant, of that juncture, of that moment, could never be obtained.

That had been why she had thirsted for that. She had thirsted for what flavor Death had.

Even if Death had been something less vivid than what Rui had expected, using the Authority that went by the name of Return by Death, she could gain sufficient change with the right to walk a life in which redoing was a possibility.

That was what she had believed―― Until she herself, tasted Death, rather.

Rui: “Something like that… something like that, can never be endured! That anguish! Sense of loss! No way can it be endured! Impossible! Impossible impossible! Absolutely impossible! Hate iiit!”

Not even once, had she possessed a way to die comfortably.

Not even once, had she felt Death to be luscious.
Not even once, had she wished to die on her own volition.

Natsuki Subaru had tasted that greater than twenty times, reenacting it.

Rui: “Someone who can withstand that, is not human! A monster! A monsteeer ~tsu!"

She could not. No way she could.

Rui had indulged in a great number of lives, affronted all kinds of souls, and had searched a life of her own.

She believed she had possessed the right, the privilege, to do so.

That was why, she stretched her hands even towards the soul of Natsuki Subaru―― and in consequence, had gotten her naive ■ shattered. Because――

Rui: “――The human heart, cannot withstand something like itself dyiiing ~tsu!!”

Want to become, happy.

Want to become happy. Want to become happy. Want to become happy. Want to become happy.
Want to become happy. Want to become happy. Want to become happy. Wanted―― to become happy.

Wanted, to become happy.

That was the wish Rui Arneb had envisaged all along, for the whole time.

Trampling upon all aspects of everything, she possessed the right to exercise her power for the purpose of acquiring the greatest life. Rui had remained believing so without any pangs of conscience whatsoever, until this day.

That, that, that, that premise, crumbled.
Wanted to become, happy. But, right now, the wish right now is different.

Rui: “Don’t want to die."

Don’t want to die.

Don’t want to die. Don’t want to die. Don’t want to die.

Don’t want to die don’t want to die don’t want to die don’t want to die don’t want to die don’t want to die don’t want to die don’t want to die don’t want to die don’t want to die don’t want to die don’t want to die don’t want to die don’t want to die don’t want to die don’t want to die don’t want to die don’t want to die don’t want to die don’t want to die don’t want to die don’t want to die don’t want to die don’t want to die don’t want to die don’t want to die don’t want to die don’t want to die don’t want to die don’t want to die don’t want to die don’t want to die don’t want to die don’t want to die don’t want to die don’t want to die don’t want to die don’t want to die don’t want to die don’t want to die don’t want to die don’t want to die don’t want to die――

Subaru has died hundreds of times in the main route, and has died tens of thousands to hundreds of millions of times in IF routes.

 

[Phoenks]

It is definitely relevant, tho. Supernatural Willpower is widely accepted to be able to overpower fear auras if sufficient. If Gun's willpower (along with his fear resistance) is beyond what Reid's aura is shown to overpower, then it is DEFINITELY very relevant.

It's still not relevant because the fear is layered. No amount of baseline willpower is going to overcome a layered fear hax. That's not how hax works on the wiki.

 

[azontr]

if you've got a minute to have a wee read.

I do indeed. Gimme a moment.

 

[Fezzih_007]

I not really sure the argument for the willpower supposed to be actually, like yeah Subaru have Willpower, but he still afraid to die, Reid here can kill him so If course he is afraid of him.

 

[Phoenks]

I not really sure the argument for the willpower supposed to be actually, like yeah Subaru have Willpower, but he still afraid to die, Reid here can kill him so If course he is afraid of him.

I don't understand why you're downplaying so hard. Especially when this is stuff already accepted by Re Zero staff supporters.

It's literally an aura that Emilia and Subaru instinctively felt.

 

[azontr]

It's still not relevant because the fear is layered. No amount of baseline willpower is going to overcome a layered fear hax. That's not how hax works on the wiki.

Then I'll ask the real question, then. Scans of Reid's fear aura being able to effect Subaru?

 

[Phoenks]

Then I'll ask the real question, then. Scans of Reid's fear aura being able to effect Subaru?

It's... On the page... It's already even been posted here above.

 

[azontr]

It's... On the page... It's already even been posted here above.

I'm illiterate, don't worry.

 

[Zabazab]

Just in case

Gyazo

gyazo.com

 

[ShionAH]

I'm illiterate, don't worry.

The million death thing isnt canon and happened in another “IF” timeline. Just like how “What If” having different profiles

 

[azontr]

Anyways looking at the scan, what exactly stops Gun from just... fighting through the fear?

I'm not gonna argue he won't be effected by it but he's had to fight in worse condition than just going weak in the knees and breathing rapidly. Why wouldn't he just feel fear, be like "**** this guy's strong as shit", then simply fight anyway?

 

[Phoenks]

Anyways looking at the scan, what exactly stops Gun from just... fighting through the fear?

I'm not gonna argue he won't be effected by it but he's had to fight in worse condition than just going weak in the knees and breathing rapidly. Why wouldn't he just feel fear, be like "**** this guy's strong as shit", then simply fight anyway?

Again, it's layered above witches who can cause people to throw up or be paralyzed by just standing near someone.

Also, fighting through the fear while Reid can just cut him once and he's dead?

Idk man seems a little farfetched.

 

[ShionAH]

Anyways looking at the scan, what exactly stops Gun from just... fighting through the fear?

I'm not gonna argue he won't be effected by it but he's had to fight in worse condition than just going weak in the knees and breathing rapidly. Why wouldn't he just feel fear, be like "**** this guy's strong as shit", then simply fight anyway?

Another thing is the paralysis still accepted and we have to use the profile so he can still simply think and win.

 

[Fezzih_007]

I don't understand why you're downplaying so hard.

Ok, i just questioning stuff i not trying to downplay, can stop saying that please?

 

[azontr]

Again, it's layered above witches who can cause people to throw up by just standing near someone.

And Gun throwing up is gonna stop him from moving or something...? Like, he's already been stabbed through his lungs, coughed up blood, then moved anyway.

I'm not saying he won't be effected but like how do the effects, in retrospect, hinder him? Make him feel weak? Make him not breath?? Make him puke? Like, be real. You think puking is gonna make him stop fighting?