Regular 9-C Tournament. Round 1 Match 7. Phong Lang vs Great Tiger

[Peppersalt43]

Indian Stereotypes : 0
Low-Budget Action Hero : 7
Incon : 0

Everything above 9-C is restricted
First key Great Tiger used
Starting distance is 10 meters
Speed equalized

 

[DrGreyman]

Guess I'll start.
From the main tourny page, Phong scales to 429 joules, while Great Tiger is rated at least at 700 joules from real-life boxers, possibly up to 1000J at higher levels, so Tiger takes the ap advantage.
In terms of skill, Great Tiger is stated to be the boxing champion of India, #1 in the major circuit, and #7 in the world circuit, so he will not be an easy opponent.
Just from a glance at the profile, Phong has beaten martial artists before, but has he ever fought someone using magic? Great Tiger fights mostly with teleportation and illusion clones to misdirect and confuse his opponents, such as his piercing moves with him and an illusion coming from different sides of the fighter to split their attention.

 

[Jamesthetaker]

Alright, I will respond to Greyman's argument.

Phong has not beaten anyone with magic or teleportation before, so he might get confused with his tactic. However, Phong Lang has fought a variety of opponents who use different kinds of martial arts (one of them could levitate and create air slashes), so he could eventually find a way around Tiger's teleportation. Also, we're using Tiger's first key, so he doesn't have illusion or whatever the second key has; only teleportation remains constant. I have looked through some of the gameplay clips, and Tiger doesn't seem to start with teleportation and using it makes him dizzy afterwards, which gives Phong Lang an opening to attack. Tiger has an AP advantage, but being a boxer means he needs to fight against a guy with a sword barehanded, and any martial artist could tell that it's a really bad idea. A sword user like Phong should know to keep a distance between him and his opponent; not to mention, Phong is a master at using one, so he would be even more cautious when Tiger uses teleportation. All Phong needs is an opening to stab Tiger, and it's pretty much done. In the worst case, when Tiger manages to close the distance, Phong might be able to use his pressure points to render him back to a normal person.

 

[DrGreyman]

Phong has not beaten anyone with magic or teleportation before, so he might get confused with his tactic. However, Phong Lang has fought a variety of opponents who use different kinds of martial arts (one of them could levitate and create air slashes), so he could eventually find a way around Tiger's teleportation.

how quickly did he adapt to the unusual fighting styles? did he manage over the course of a battle or recover right after the initial confusion?

Also, we're using Tiger's first key, so he doesn't have illusion or whatever the second key has; only teleportation remains constant.

true, I forgot about that. I'm kinda dumb

I have looked through some of the gameplay clips, and Tiger doesn't seem to start with teleportation and using it makes him dizzy afterwards, which gives Phong Lang an opening to attack.

Teleporting in general doesn't make him dizzy, it is the rapid rushes that leave him vulnerable. It is true that he usually waits before bringing out the magic, but I think that would make it even more of a surprise for Phong since before he is just a skilled boxer.

Tiger has an AP advantage, but being a boxer means he needs to fight against a guy with a sword barehanded, and any martial artist could tell that it's a really bad idea. A sword user like Phong should know to keep a distance between him and his opponent; not to mention, Phong is a master at using one, so he would be even more cautious when Tiger uses teleportation. All Phong needs is an opening to stab Tiger, and it's pretty much done. In the worst case, when Tiger manages to close the distance, Phong might be able to use his pressure points to render him back to a normal person.

I will say that Phong using a sword is really bad for Tiger. I don't think that the AP advantage is totally negated, but a cutting weapon will always prove a major challenge against a hand-to-hand fighter. Tiger, along with the rest of the boxers in punch out, rarely ever let themselves get hit unless they are stunned by a counter, and Tiger's nimbleness and teleportation makes it even harder, so Tiger will be the one to throw the first attack. How good is Phong at dodging?

 

[Jamesthetaker]

how quickly did he adapt to the unusual fighting styles? did he manage over the course of a battle or recover right after the initial confusion?

Teleporting in general doesn't make him dizzy, it is the rapid rushes that leave him vulnerable. It is true that he usually waits before bringing out the magic, but I think that would make it even more of a surprise for Phong since before he is just a skilled boxer.

I will say that Phong using a sword is really bad for Tiger. I don't think that the AP advantage is totally negated, but a cutting weapon will always prove a major challenge against a hand-to-hand fighter. Tiger, along with the rest of the boxers in punch out, rarely ever let themselves get hit unless they are stunned by a counter, and Tiger's nimbleness and teleportation makes it even harder, so Tiger will be the one to throw the first attack. How good is Phong at dodging?

He seems to adapt fairly well to someone who could fly and he has a good enough instinct to catch an arrow without looking back. Personally, I think Tiger's fighting style shouldn't be out of reach for Phong to handle because it's still boxing at its core, with some weird magic in the mix.

Phong, aside from being a swordmaster, also knows "top Kung-Fu techniques." He's capable of countering a martial arts attack with a chopstick, and later, four of them at once. Not to mention, Tiger would be troubled by air slashes because they covered such a large area. If Tiger's rapid rushes did not manage to KO Phong, then he would risk leaving a huge opening afterwards.

 

[Flashlight237]

I can vouch for Great Tiger, but I'm not voting for him yet. He doesn't get tired when he teleports from one part of the ring to the other once a new round starts. Also, I haven't tried it out or seen someone else test it out (shouldn't be too hard since NES emulation is easy), but I would imagine Great Tiger wouldn't get tired from using his signature teleportation move if he manages to knock you down before the attack cycle completes.

 

[Jamesthetaker]

Tiger does indeed have the AP advantage to knock Phong out; however, Phong's dodging skills and air slashes could give him a chance to stab Tiger. Phong Lang's instinct has helped him catch an arrow without looking back, which could help him in this situation where his opponent can move rapidly.

 

[DrGreyman]

Tiger does indeed have the AP advantage to knock Phong out; however, Phong's dodging skills and air slashes could give him a chance to stab Tiger. Phong Lang's instinct has helped him catch an arrow without looking back, which could help him in this situation where his opponent can move rapidly.

Taking the AP at face value, the best-case scenario is for every hit Tiger lands, Phong would have to land two. That is obviously simpler than what it actually would be given the sword, but for now, let's say that is true. Phong is clearly very good at dodging, but is he untouchable? He can catch arrows without looking, but from the video, the bowman clearly made a lot of noise in the process given the splashing and talking.
Also, I might be seeing it wrong but the 'flying' guy didn't look all that impressive to me. He just kinda floated off a bridge in a straight line. The air slashes made a visible distortion and the other fighter had to make large swings to make them. Again, might be reading it wrong but to me, that looked only slightly more impressive than a regular high-skill sword fight.

 

[Jamesthetaker]

Taking the AP at face value, the best-case scenario is for every hit Tiger lands, Phong would have to land two. That is obviously simpler than what it actually would be given the sword, but for now, let's say that is true. Phong is clearly very good at dodging, but is he untouchable? He can catch arrows without looking, but from the video, the bowman clearly made a lot of noise in the process given the splashing and talking.
Also, I might be seeing it wrong but the 'flying' guy didn't look all that impressive to me. He just kinda floated off a bridge in a straight line. The air slashes made a visible distortion and the other fighter had to make large swings to make them. Again, might be reading it wrong but to me, that looked only slightly more impressive than a regular high-skill sword fight.

Phong isn't untouchable; he obviously can't hold out if Tiger keeps pumping him for the entire fight, so he needs to end it quickly. As for the arrow-catching feat, I claim that he did it without looking back, so the point is simply there.

You can't expect much from a low-budget film, can you? The point here is that Phong has seen some strange ***** on his journey; his ability to take on four martial artists at once demonstrates that he is quick to adapt to the situation, leading to the conclusion that Phong would not be caught off guard by Tiger's teleportation. I'm not sure why making large swings would be a disadvantage for Phong given his ability to draw them quickly; if Tiger got cut by it, then bleeding would impair his agility greatly.

 

[DrGreyman]

yeah, imma be honest I was nitpicking. there isn't a lot I can say more than what was already said.
Tiger's greatest strength is his teleportation, and as you said Phong can adapt quickly enough that it would be more of a hindrance for Phong than something that can win. While I do think that Tiger would put up a great fight, Phong will just hit more often and not get hit as much as he would need to be.
I don't want to drag this out since there isn't much more to be said or presented, a sword and quick reactions shut down a boxer pretty hard. I'm not too stubborn to admit defeat
Phong FRA

 

[jojo123]

Phong FRA

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Phong FRA

 

[Jamesthetaker]

If my argument doesn't make it clear enough, Phong FRA

 

[BEASTHEART8800]

Phong FRA

 

[koopa3144]

Phong FRA

 

[Peppersalt43]

And just to get this concluded

Phong FRA

And that's grace, thank you everyone

{Also in case you're wondering, this is allowed based on this thread}