• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Regarding the existence of Composite Human

31,701
5,478
I'll keep this concise. The existence of CH is a massive double standard on the part of the wiki on various levels. For starters, the Composite profiles were removed for various reasons which don't need to be restated, but just for clarity's sake, we'll mention the main one: these characters aren't fictional, and as they are imaginary thought experiments at best and Fanfiction at worst (yes the real world can have Fanfiction as many unsavory sites can attest to). Additionally, the main purpose of profiles for The Real World is scaling to other verses and providing benchmarks, which can't be done with these characters who do not exist. For these reasons, the Composite profiles were deleted, but Composite Human stayed.

Why was this?

Going by previous discussion, the main reason was the popularity of the characters. Ignoring the dubious concept of using popularity to justify the existence of characters or verses, which is another discussion in and of itself, many other Composites enjoyed similar popularity to CH (for example, the notorious Composite Tree, and the Composite Organism, which had several threads discussing it by itself), making the idea of CH staying because of it's stardom a questionable argument at best. Additionally, as numerous revisions about profiles and our current standards on profiles that can be made have noted, popularity is not the only thing that should dictate what can be allowed. While it is a factor, if a profile does not follow our other standards (like certain YouTube profiles that shall not be named) it cannot exist here, regardless of our opinion on it's popularity. Popularity is a difficult thing to measure in any event, making it difficult to quantify what is actually "popular" enough to stay in any event.

Also of note is the numerous issues in Standard Battle Assumptions the profile creates simply by existing. While it's not nearly as important as the above points, the fact is composite human causes many issues every time it is used for versus threads. Rules regarding prior knowledge that usually aren't enforced suddenly become deciding factors, standard equipment becomes difficult to quantify, and as Composite Human supposedly only uses positive traits, traits that have both positive and negative attributes are kept, removed, and cherry picked on different levels every battle. For these reasons, even assuming CH's status normally would give it a pass on the above hypocrisy, it's not nearly worth the trouble it causes in any event, and should thus be deleted.

Agreed: Jackythejack, Junkoposter, Paul Frank, Monarch Laciel, CinnabarManx421, Buttersamuri, Hellbeast, The Pen and the Sword, Andytrenom, HeadlessKramerGeoff, Saikou the Lewd King, Antvasima, Apex PredatorX, Nemo212, Paulo.junior.969, Elizhaa, Dragonmasterxyz, DarkDragonMedeus, GoCommitDi, KLOL506

Disagreed: Wokistan, The Wright Way(?), Iamunanimousinthat(?), Lsirlancelotdulaci, Uninown, Moritzva, Redacted Flinn, DMB 1, I'm Blue daba dee daba die, TriforcePower1, N Kardashev, GojiBoyForever, Yellowpig10

Neutral: I'm blue daba dee daba die, ThePerpetual, Sir Ovens, Colonel Krukov, Stalker Maggot
 
1. "Rules regarding prior knowledge that usually aren't enforced suddenly become deciding factors" Such as?

2. "Standard equipment becomes difficult to quantify" Not really. We just say what he has in the OP. Simple. There are characters with thousands to millions of possible items that they may or may not have on them on the regular (mostly composites)

3. "Only uses positive traits, traits that are both positive and negative are kept, removed, and cherry picked." This is an issue with Composites in general really. For example, Composite Godzilla is given the pragmatism of his Godzilla Earth counterpart, while other less pragmatic versions are ignored. It's not just a CH thing.

4. "Popularity is difficult to measure" Voting. That is all.

5. "Composite Organism" Not really an argument seeing as how it never even got a profile before Composites were banned.

6. Composite Human staying was more or less a compromise from what I remember. Composites were really popular in their heyday and removing all of them would've caused a decent amount of backlash. Banning most of them and only keeping the single most popular one was a way to please most sides. Going back on that much later could seriously work up some steam in the community.
 
" Composite Human supposedly only uses positive traits, traits that have both positive and negative attributes are kept, removed, and cherry picked on different levels every battle."

I mean. Can Composite Human even fight if we count his negative traits?
 
Stalker Maggot said:
" Composite Human supposedly only uses positive traits, traits that have both positive and negative attributes are kept, removed, and cherry picked on different levels every battle."

I mean. Can Composite Human even fight if we count his negative traits?
The issue is less that we don't include them and more that there's no good way to decide which are negative in specific cases.
 
@The Wright Way

1. There is only one part of SBA that deals with that, and it is the one regarding prior knowledge of other characters in terms of knowledge from their own series they have of them.

2. This is actually becoming more heavily regulated in any case, which is why Optional Equipment exists. CH has yet to follow these standards.

3. Composites will have their own thread, but that doesn't really matter for this specific case, as it's not a issue of keeping them, but deciding which is which.

4. No votes were performed regarding composites. And there are numerous reasons why a serious vote for standards hasn't been done before, such as sock puppetry for example.

5. Fair, but it would have been had it not been for the rule change, and CH having a profile beforehand doesn't make it stick to the actual standards better.

6. A compromise isn't always the best argument, especially since it seems that many people are now okay with its removal.
 
</div> The issue is less that we don't include them and more that there's no good way to decide which are negative in specific cases. </div>

I╠ ╠Âm╠Âe╠Âa╠Ân╠Â.╠ ╠ÂC╠Âo╠Âm╠Âp╠Âo╠Âs╠Âi╠Ât╠Âe╠ ╠ÂH╠Âu╠Âm╠Âa╠Ân╠ ╠Âw╠Âo╠Âu╠Âl╠Âd╠ ╠Âa╠Âl╠Âs╠Âo╠ ╠Âb╠Âe╠ ╠Âs╠Âu╠Âi╠Âc╠Âi╠Âd╠Âa╠Âl╠Â,╠ ╠Âg╠Âr╠Âe╠Âe╠Âd╠Ây╠Â,╠ ╠Âe╠Ât╠Âc╠ ╠Âi╠Âf╠ ╠Âw╠Âe╠ ╠Âc╠Âo╠Âu╠Ân╠Ât╠Âe╠Âd╠ ╠Ân╠Âe╠Âg╠Âa╠Ât╠Âi╠Âv╠Âe╠ ╠Ât╠Âr╠Âa╠Âi╠Ât╠Âs╠ ╠Âs╠Âo╠Â
 
Negative traits on a CH would make it impossible to use them. There are 100 percent pacifists who wouldn't raise hand to defend themselves if a gun was pointed at them. And others who would go murder crazy on basically anyone they saw. CH would include people who just contradict each other and how they would act and think
 
The negative traits still exist, you can't just throw them out because they make the character unusable. TMQ has super suicidal tendencies and we keep them even when he is used in a match for instance.
 
Mixed opinion for me. For example, CH has a massive loophole because the mere existence of CH throws any "lack of prior knowledge" out of the window. This also makes confusing because we can't properly say things like what will he start with or what counts as positive and negative.

But, CH matches are fun and I always wanted to see how we scale to others so I am inconclusive.

We can move it to the joke battles wiki, but that place is now for memes so a truly serious profile like CH would be put to waste
 
Buttersamuri said:
Negative traits on a CH would make it impossible to use them. There are 100 percent pacifists who wouldn't raise hand to defend themselves if a gun was pointed at them. And others who would go murder crazy on basically anyone they saw. CH would include people who just contradict each other and how they would act and think
You can just make CH bloodlusted all the time then
 
Yea. That's not a good reason to keep a page that goes against a lot of vs wiki standards. It's existence causes a lot of issues. It's not right to cherry pick the best of humanity and throw out the worst. And it isn't possible to use the worse and weaknesses. Cause of things that contradict, make their usability in fights basically impossible.
 
The biggest problem is where will me move it to. It will be wasted on the Joke Battles Wiki because everything there is basically a meme site with nothing taken seriously. It's out of place on the Fan Fiction wiki.

I think we need to revise the whole CH thing instead of just removing it all together
 
I don't really agree. I'll see about getting to this later tonight or tomorrow.
 
Personally, I'm good with removing it.
 
4. That goes for literally every vs thread ever. No member who has been here long enough to care about the Composite profiles is going to be petty enough to make socks over it and it'd be easy enough to counter at any rate. (You kust have made X amount of posts before you've allowed to vote. It'd be pretty obvious that the people suddenly rushing to fill those numbers were socks)

2. I don't see why CH can't just be edited to match the new standards like any other profile.
 
The Wright Way said:
4. That goes for literally every vs thread ever. No member who has been here long enough to care about the Composite profiles is going to be petty enough to make socks over it and it'd be easy enough to counter at any rate. (You kust have made X amount of posts before you've allowed to vote. It'd be pretty obvious that the people suddenly rushing to fill those numbers were socks)

2. I don't see why CH can't just be edited to match the new standards like any other profile.
4. Those aren't things regarding profiles or standards.

2. It could, but for the reasons above, it's not worth it to put so much work into it
 
The Wright Way said:
4. That doesn't really address how easy it would be to counter.
4. I wasn't responding to that part, and regardless of the issues with it, the fact is democratic voting is not the end all be all of the wiki procedure. Voting must always be supplemented by debate, which makes this sort of measurement still very difficult, especially in regards to comparing it with other composites. The fact still remains no such votes were had either way.
 
I'm Blue daba dee daba die said:
The biggest problem is where will me move it to. It will be wasted on the Joke Battles Wiki because everything there is basically a meme site with nothing taken seriously. It's out of place on the Fan Fiction wiki.

I think we need to revise the whole CH thing instead of just removing it all together
Bring it to the characters stats and profiles wiki
 
...Neutral.

While all of the above is true, I think, there seems to be a distinguishing quality that Composite Human in particular possesses that differentiates it from other Composites. Put another way, there's a reason that you'll see, in other Vs Debating contexts beyond VsBW, such things as the idea of a Composite Human being cropping up, whilst "Composite [not-Human]" were, as far as I could tell, largely inventions of this site's imaginations themselves, which has them qualify more as belonging on FC/OC than the main site.

If Composite Human is to be axed from VsBW, at any rate, I'd ask it be transferred to FC/OC rather than deleted outright.
 
Agreeing for the time being, will see if someone can change my mind later on
 
Composite Human is not a part of real life. It's just a thought experiment that circles around people's most fitting and/or notable combat qualities and knowledge, and giving them all to a single human that would hypothetically has them. But it is also the most featured thought experiment in versus debating out of all of the thought experiments.

Its fate of staying on the wiki should largely depend of its notability, as in how it affects the fiction and how popular it is (in terms of how frequently it is being discussed). One thing that is certain is that it should be moved to a new verse; it being placed in the Real World clashes with the editing rules. Oh, and Composite Human doesn't include any of the non-original fiction as part of the experiment, otherwise it would have been definitely moved to FC/OC VS Battles Wiki.

Despite the Composite Human being (indirectly) mentioned in only a few philosophical works, it shows up the notability of the idea of the composite human.

I'd like to disagree with the deletion.
 
ThePerpetual said:
Honestly? I think this could be a good solution to that issue. CH being deleted or transferred to JBW - just as the other Composite profiles - would truly be a shame and a large waste, I think. I can recognize that some good points are made above, too.

..side note, I do enjoy matches with Composite Human as well. They're fun, and I think some other people could think the same.

I'll remain neutral, for now.
 
Back
Top