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Regarding Fist of The North Star scaling, speed and guides

I've been re-reading some part of Hokuto No Ken, been looking for guides and been going back and forth between the created entries on this wiki. These following points are potential revision for one or more entries in this verse from my observation.

1. In Falco (Fist of the North Star), it's written that he fought evenly against 100% Kenshiro. I found this statement to be questionable consider how Kenshiro never went 100%. All he did was lose his jacket, he didn't become more buffed. In other words, Falco fought evenly with a restricited Kenshiro in his base. [1] I judge it because not only did Kenshiro at base have less problem with facing the nameless demon than Falco, but he got buff after the fight when Falco was still fatigue. [2][3][4] Even the guards got shocked when they saw that Kenshiro wasn't as fatigue as Falco. [5]

2. In Han, it's written that his speed is at least Massively Hypersonic due to scaling from Raoh. The reason why I brought this one up is that I have found something that suggests that the he and character above him are at least faster than light. He states that his fist is so fast that nobody could see his shadow multiple times [6][7], the scans backs this up by showing no shadow of their fists when Han fights Kenshiro. [8][9] Also the shadow statement exist in the raws and in the anime as well, so this is unlikely a translation error. This also not their aura, consider how Hans bleeding hand was shown fist fighting Kenshiro. If this goes through in this community, then anyone on Hans level or at Base Pre-Seal Kenshiro at this point is FTL in combat/reaction speed.

3. The available guides should be linked in the verse page as well, consider how they provides some of the abilities Kenshiro has on his page well as other entries tied to this verse. This is the only website I found so far that hosts some raw scans of the guides. [10] If anyone has knows where the rest of the scans of the guides are at, then link them here or contact the mods of this verse. These scans can help to expand some entries.
 
1. I guess you have a point, but it was stated that before Falco lost his leg, that if he and Raoh had fought, but would've died.

2. I am extremely hesitant to argue for FTL FotNS, as there was a similar technique used in Fist of the Blue Sky, where their attacks left no shadow. Yet, the top feat only clocked in at MHS via Kasumi Kenshiro dodging a bunch of bullets from close range. Same goes for Fist of the North Star.

Plus, I'm not even sure if having a shadowless attack even qualifies for FTL

3. Sorry, can't help you there. Though, I think we could link to the Hokuto wiki, which lists basically all of the techniques used, both in the manga and anime. Though, some or current ability descriptions (such as Muso Tensei), come from another source, you'd have to ask Grudgeman for them.
 
Yes Falco is comparable to Pre Muso Tensei Raoh, but that does not mean that Kenshiro has not improved in-between the time skip.

2. I am extremely hesitant to argue for FTL FotNS, as there was a similar technique used in Fist of the Blue Sky, where their attacks left no shadow. Yet, the top feat only clocked in at MHS via Kasumi Kenshiro dodging a bunch of bullets from close range. Same goes for Fist of the North Star.
Same here, although this statement seems to check out, just need some guides that could possibly back this thing up.
Could you also post that feat from Blue Sky, I need to take a look.

Plus, I'm not even sure if having a shadowless attack even qualifies for FTL
If an object blocks light, that creates a shadow. If an object has no mass or is transparent, it doesn't block light and thus does not create a shadow. Theoretically, one could argue that if something moves moves faster than what light could detect, it's faster enough to dodge light from being blocked.
Well that or if you are a vampire according to the myths.

3. Sorry, can't help you there. Though, I think we could link to the Hokuto wiki, which lists basically all of the techniques used, both in the manga and anime. Though, some or current ability descriptions (such as Muso Tensei), come from another source, you'd have to ask Grudgeman for them.

Sounds like a good idea. I'm just hoping that anyone has one or more guides scans that they could share with us.
 
Here's the chapter.

Though, the manga flip flops between callin it a shadowless kick and an invisible one. Though, Ken does mention is as the Hokuto Sokaken Muei-Kyaku, which is the same technique Yaiyan used against Yasaka.
 
PTSOXMONKEY99 said:
Here's the chapter.

Though, the manga flip flops between callin it a shadowless kick and an invisible one. Though, Ken does mention is as the Hokuto Sokaken Muei-Kyaku, which is the same technique Yaiyan used against Yasaka.
Interesting, it has something to do with speed (with Uncle Ken needed to react a split second) but it still doesn't have much going for it.
 
If it's literally called a Shadowless Kick I doubt it's FTL and not some special weird technique.
 
Promestein said:
If it's literally called a Shadowless Kick I doubt it's FTL and not some special weird technique.
This is true. The name of an attack is not enough, it would need more confirmation for it to be the speed the name suggesting.

Antonio Solanich said:
i don't know if Han is FTL but in HNK a character named Garuda states that he has the Speed of Light

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-QP0hBarX...sPEs/0PK2GrTHj2s/w1900/MR-357076-733583-3.jpg

so could be
Where is this from? Who is Garuda scaled to?
 
Generally speaking we cannot take claims such as these at face value without clear feats backing them up.
 
Promestein said:
Generally speaking we cannot take claims such as these at face value without clear feats backing them up.
That is also correct. Although the first example has more than a claim to back it up.

Antonio Solanich said:
he is from the manga Kinyoku no Garuda.
Have not read that manga, but how much does he scale to Raoh? Almost same level to base?
 
KinkiestSins said:
1 and 3 seem fine.
2, seems like a bunch of assumptions, but I am personally neutral.
Thanks for the input. The second one is more an observation than assumption, consider how it has been stated more than once and shown that Han and Kenshiros fist had no shadow during their punch out.
 
I see people agreeing on thw first and third point very well, it just the second point that people are cencern about. This is good!
 
The scaling should be like this BS = Before Series
MT = Muso Tensei
SR = Seal Released
MG = Mothers Grave
Base = Fighter at 30% of their strength
Full = Fighter at 100% of their strength

BS Kenshiro Base >= Jagi

BS Kenshiro Base =< Shin


Pre MT Kenshiro Base >= Shin

Pre MT Kenshiro Base >> Jagi

Pre MT Kenshiro Base << Pre MT Raoh Base

Pre MT Kenshiro Full =< Pre MT Raoh Base

Falco = Pre MT Raoh Full

Post MT Kenshiro Base > Pre MT Raoh Base

Post MT Kenshiro Full >= Post MT Raoh Full


Pre SR Kenshiro Base >= Falco

Pre SR Kenshiro Full < Pre MG Kaioh Base

Post SR Kenshiro Full >= Post MG Kaioh Full


Altough we don't know for sure if Hyoh could be in this scaling after achieving evil Ki that is comparable to Kaioh. [1]


If we use Kinyoku no Garuda. to the speed scaling, then fighter around Pre MT Raoh Base level would be FTL, and thus backup Han's speed feat.
 
I'm pretty sure 100% Pre-Seals Kenshiro fought on even grounds with Hyoh, and the only reason Hyoh didn't die was because Shachi interrupted the fight (though Hyoh admitted that Ken was probably going to win).

Anyway, I think we already use the scaling method you are presenting here, with the exception of Falco (who we agreed should only scale to Base Kenshiro and Base Raoh).

Also, Muso Tensei doesn't provide a boost in strength or speed (as we discussed in the other thread), it just gives the user the ability to embody nothingness and harmonize with the souls of others.

Still inconclusive on the speed thing
 
PTSOXMONKEY99 said:
I'm pretty sure 100% Pre-Seals Kenshiro fought on even grounds with Hyoh, and the only reason Hyoh didn't die was because Shachi interrupted the fight (though Hyoh admitted that Ken was probably going to win).
Anyway, I think we already use the scaling method you are presenting here, with the exception of Falco (who we agreed should only scale to Base Kenshiro and Base Raoh).

Also, Muso Tensei doesn't provide a boost in strength or speed (as we discussed in the other thread), it just gives the user the ability to embody nothingness and harmonize with the souls of othersh.

Still inconclusive on the speed thing
Great because I'm gonna make a video about the scaling, just needed to have a second or third party to double check it.

The Muso Tensei marks more the process in this list of how Kenshiro got stronger inbetween his first and second fight with Raoh than him gaining that said ability. This will be ofcoursed mentioned later on said video.

Yeah the speed dicussion needs more votes on that.
 
I don't think the first scan is so much of a power difference between Raoh and Kenshiro, as much as it is a mentality difference. Kenshiro at this point was still kinda proving himself as the Successor, and was still getting into the mentality (hence why Toki asked if he could kill Lin)

Idk about the last thing, but do keep in mind that Kasumi also performed a casual Large Island feat before performing the ritual, so scaling shouldn't be that off
 
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