References for Common Feats Re-organization

[Agnaa]

Problem: It's really difficult to fix issues with calcs on the References for Common Feats page, since one can't distinguish pages that link to one calc from pages that link to another. Troubles resulting from this can be found here and here.

Proposed Solution: Rather than having the calcs listed inline on the same page, hidden under collapsibles, we should instead have them under sub-pages, which are linked to from the main page, without any individualised calc sections on the main page to force people to link the appropriate sub-page. So, instead of [[References for Common Feats#Escape velocity of Earth]], one would link [[References for Common Feats/Escape velocity of Earth]].

Due to this only requiring one character to be changed in a pattern that is easily-identifiable, I think this would be very practical to apply through the use of a mass-editing tool.

@Antvasima @IdiosyncraticLawyer Thoughts?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looks good from a glance.

 

[Armorchompy]

I would agree but I think it'd be better to use blogs rather than sub-pages, they are after all where calcs are typically put.

 

[Agnaa]

Eh, putting them on actual pages makes the transfer process simpler, and ultimately leaves the pages more easily changeable by others.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, if this is accepted, we should definitely use official regular pages rather than blog posts in this case.

 

[Antvasima]

@AKM sama @DontTalkDT @DarkDragonMedeus @Mr. Bambu @Celestial_Pegasus @Wokistan @Ultima_Reality @Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @ByAsura @Sir_Ovens @Damage3245 @Starter_Pack @Abstractions @LordGriffin1000 @Colonel_Krukov @SamanPatou @GyroNutz @Firestorm808 @Everything12 @Maverick_Zero_X @Crabwhale @Agnaa @Just_a_Random_Butler @DarkGrath @Dereck03 @Executor_N0 @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @Therefir @Ugarik @Jasonsith @Psychomaster35 @CloverDragon03 @AbaddonTheDisappointment @KLOL506 @DMUA

What do you think about this?

 

[LordGriffin1000]

I'm fine with the change, the whether they become sub-pages or blogs I'm not sure, whatever's easiest, I guess.

 

[Armorchompy]

Yeah I don't mind pages either, was just stating a preference

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I already commented above saying it looks good.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Seems like a good idea to me. I approve

 

[SeijiSetto]

(i figure this goes without saying but just for the sake of being said explicitly)
sure, on locked pages, so they can't be changed or edited without a content mod or higher's assistance

 

[DMUA]

This sounds like it'd be a lot of work to apply, but if it can be done, it should

 

[Agnaa]

I could spend a day to convert the calcs into sub-pages, but I'm not confident in my bot script-writing abilities to do the link conversion. Would anyone else be able to help with that?

 

[Qawsedf234]

What do you think about this?

I don't mind it. If we need editing help I can probably assist during the weekend or something.

 

[Antvasima]

I could spend a day to convert the calcs into sub-pages, but I'm not confident in my bot script-writing abilities to do the link conversion. Would anyone else be able to help with that?

I suppose that you mean updating all of the links to the standard feats, and am afraid that I think it would likely have to be done manually in order to get it right, so it would require A LOT of unnecessary work, which is the big downside to your suggestion, and I do not personally think that it is hard for the visitors who click on a references for standard feats page link to spend 15 seconds finding the specific standard feat that they are looking for.

 

[Agnaa]

I suppose that you mean updating all of the links to the standard feats, and am afraid that I think it would likely have to be done manually in order to get it right, so it would require A LOT of unnecessary work

Damn really? I thought, if we chose correct names, it would only involve changing one character in pretty easily-identifiable link patterns. Especially after Idiosyncratic's sweep to properly format internal links.

and I do not personally think that it is hard for the visitors who click on a references for standard feats page link to spend 15 seconds finding the specific standard feat that they are looking for.

That's not the reason for this revision; I'm suggesting it because it is extraordinarily difficult to revise these feats as-is, since we can't properly track which pages use them and will need to be updated (we essentially need to check every page which links any calc in the list). When we first created that page, I hoped our thorough vetting process for these calcs would render updates unnecessary, but after seeing multiple need large changes, I think a longer-term plan is justified.

 

[Antvasima]

Damn really? I thought, if we chose correct names, it would only involve changing one character in pretty easily-identifiable link patterns. Especially after Idiosyncratic's sweep to properly format internal links.

As far as I am aware, we would need to go through all VSBW pages that link to our current page, and update each the links to turn more specific.

That's not the reason for this revision; I'm suggesting it because it is extraordinarily difficult to revise these feats as-is, since we can't properly track which pages use them and will need to be updated (we essentially need to check every page which links any calc in the list). When we first created that page, I hoped our thorough vetting process for these calcs would render updates unnecessary, but after seeing multiple need large changes, I think a longer-term plan is justified.

Ah. That is a genuine potential problem, yes, but splitting our main page into different parts/sections will likely not significantly lessen it, unless we use one separate sub-page for every single standard feat.

 

[SeijiSetto]

Ah. That is a genuine potential problem, yes, but splitting our main page into different parts/sections will likely not significantly lessen it, unless we use one separate sub-page for every single standard feat.

I believe that is exactly what is being proposed, yes.

[...]

Proposed Solution: Rather than having the calcs listed inline on the same page, hidden under collapsibles, we should instead have them under sub-pages, which are linked to from the main page, without any individualised calc sections on the main page to force people to link the appropriate sub-page. So, instead of [[References for Common Feats#Escape velocity of Earth]], one would link [[References for Common Feats/Escape velocity of Earth]].

 

[Agnaa]

As far as I am aware, we would need to go through all VSBW pages that link to our current page, and update each the links to turn more specific.

I think it should be easier. I plan to put each calc on its own sub-page, and so the links would simply need to be changed from [[References for Common Feats#Escape velocity of Earth]], one would link [[References for Common Feats/Escape velocity of Earth]], which I think is quite a simple task for the bots.

I think the only annoying part would be the upfront difficulty of copying those calcs to pages, and changing the text of the main page to link to them. But I think that hurdle's manageable.

 

[Antvasima]

And does our internal link search function properly separate between different sub-pages if we use it to try to find them?

 

[Agnaa]

And does our internal link search function properly separate between different sub-pages if we use it to try to find them?

I believe so, but sandboxes being a bit weird leaves me a smidge uncertain.

 

[Antvasima]

I believe so, but sandboxes being a bit weird leaves me a smidge uncertain.

@DarkDragonMedeus @Mr. Bambu @Celestial_Pegasus @Wokistan @Ultima_Reality @Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @ByAsura @Sir_Ovens @Damage3245 @Starter_Pack @Abstractions @LordGriffin1000 @Colonel_Krukov @SamanPatou @GyroNutz @Firestorm808 @Everything12 @Maverick_Zero_X @Crabwhale @Just_a_Random_Butler @DarkGrath @Dereck03 @Shadowbokunohero @QrowBarr @Crazylatin77 @Zaratthustra @ElixirBlue @Tllmbrg @Nehz_XZX @Therefir @IdiosyncraticLawyer @GarrixianXD @Catzlaflame

Do any of you know about this?

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Do any of you know about this?

Can't say that I do. I've been quite busy lately and look over much.

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

Bump.

 

[Omnificence]

Seems alright, but I'd suggest making a page for sections like Speed Feats and Destruction Feats, if this hasn't already been proposed. Creating subpages for EVERY SINGLE feat would seem like a huge waste of time and take up space on the wiki. Sometimes, no matter where I link the specific feat a character has preformed to the corresponding feat on the RfCF page, it just links to the page itself rather than a section.

I'm not sure if this has been proposed, either, but I was starting to think we should take certain feats from the page like the KE section and place it onto the page discussing Kinetic Energy. If this would save memory and space on the RfCF page.

 

[Agnaa]

I think being able to properly revise these feats is more important than the time loss of copy/pasting 100 sections to new pages (which really wouldn't take that long, maybe a few hours at most).

 

[Antvasima]

Well, you would also need to redirect ALL of the links to our main standard feats page, and make certain that the new sub-pages do not show up during regular wiki search function usage.

 

[Antvasima]

And does our internal link search function properly separate between different sub-pages if we use it to try to find them?

And there is also this issue.

Perhaps you should ask a Fandom staff member for advice regarding all of the potential problems that I and others have brought up in this thread via Zendesk first, and then inform us here about what was revealed?

 

[Agnaa]

Well, you would also need to redirect ALL of the links to our main standard feats page,

As I said, I think that would be easily manageable through bots, as it'd be a consistent pattern that only needs one character to be changed.

and make certain that the new sub-pages do not show up during regular wiki search function usage.

And there is also this issue.

Perhaps you should ask a Fandom staff member for advice regarding all of the potential problems that I and others have brought up in this thread via Zendesk first, and then inform us here about what was revealed?

I just realised I could check this functionality on other wikis; it seems like searching for a page which has subpages functions like this.

 

[Antvasima]

As I said, I think that would be easily manageable through bots, as it'd be a consistent pattern that only needs one character to be changed.

Are you certain? It seems like a too varied naming pattern to adapt a script to properly handle it, even if we simply switch "#" to "/" in the links, but it is not my area.

I just realised I could check this functionality on other wikis; it seems like searching for a page which has subpages functions like this.

Okay, so the sub-pages would only show up by first searching for the main page name then? They would not otherwise spam our search function?

 

[Agnaa]

Are you certain? It seems like a too varied naming pattern to adapt a script to properly handle it, even if we simply switch "#" to "/" in the links, but it is not my area.

I think it's fine, since the start would always be the same (i.e. "References for Common Feats"), we can essentially ignore everything after the #.

Okay, so the sub-pages would only show up by first searching for the main page name then? They would not otherwise spam our search function?

In that search bar, you won't see sub-pages pop up when searching for the sub-page name, you'll only see them if you search for the main page first.

However, in the dedicated search page, all information from pages and subpages (their titles, their subtitles, and their text) is used to create that list of articles, so they'd pop up there.

 

[SeijiSetto]

Are you certain? It seems like a too varied naming pattern to adapt a script to properly handle it, even if we simply switch "#" to "/" in the links, but it is not my area.

is the naming pattern not just [[References for Common Feats#<words>]]
if so, that seems like something extraordinarily easy to sweep up with a regex

 

[Antvasima]

I think it's fine, since the start would always be the same (i.e. "References for Common Feats"), we can essentially ignore everything after the #.

is the naming pattern not just [[References for Common Feats#<words>]]
if so, that seems like something extraordinarily easy to sweep up with a regex

Okay. If that is correct, it would greatly simplify the required work.

@AKM sama @Elizhaa @Just_a_Random_Butler @Catzlaflame @IdiosyncraticLawyer @GarrixianXD

What do you think about this?

In that search bar, you won't see sub-pages pop up when searching for the sub-page name, you'll only see them if you search for the main page first.

Okay. That is good then.

However, in the dedicated search page, all information from pages and subpages (their titles, their subtitles, and their text) is used to create that list of articles, so they'd pop up there.

Please elaborate.

 

[Agnaa]

Please elaborate.

I hope this album gets the idea across.

Using the dedicated search page, the first results are those with the search term in the page title. After that, are results with the search term in the subpage title. And after that, are results with the term in the page's text.

From looking at other search terms, this seems to be a consistent rule.

 

[Antvasima]

Hmm. If our search page does not only display results from pages with the searched for term displayed first in their titles, that could potentially seriously mess up our search function, given the length of many of the section titles.

 

[Catzlaflame]

What do you think about this?

To clarify:

[[References for Common Feats#<words>]]

Becomes

[[References for Common Feats/<words>]]

Across every page listed in the “What links here” for the RCF page.

They are correct, this is extremely simple. Naturally, Agnaa will need to make sure that they give the sub-pages identical names to the Headings.

However, airing on the side of caution, I suppose we should do a test run. Could someone link me a page that uses a reference to the common feats page? Any random page works.

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

What do you think about this?

I would like to run a few of my pre-written general-purpose scripts on the relevant pages before the general application of this project to ensure consistent formatting so that Catzlaflame or whoever else helps apply this will have an easier time.

 

[Agnaa]

To clarify:

[[References for Common Feats#<words>]]

Becomes

[[References for Common Feats/<words>]]

Across every page listed in the “What links here” for the RCF page.

They are correct, this is extremely simple. Naturally, Agnaa will need to make sure that they give the sub-pages identical names to the Headings.

However, airing on the side of caution, I suppose we should do a test run. Could someone link me a page that uses a reference to the common feats page? Any random page works.

This blog post links to that page 3 times.

 

[Catzlaflame]

It'd be better to try it on an actual page, but don't worry about it. I've found a couple.

M. Bison

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Niko Bellic

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Script works so we should be good on that front.

 

[Antvasima]

And what about the wiki pages that use a full URL to our main common feats page, rather than short link format?

Also, how would our main common feats page look/be structured after this revision, and are there any potential downsodes with applying it, both mentioned in this discussion thread previously and otherwise?