Re Zero Skill Evaluation

[Celestial_Pegasus]

I made this blog about skill in Re Zero, this thread is to discuss it, i am not exactly proposing anything, but general discussions doesn't really fit either since some people have expressed interest in changing "skill" feats currently on the profiles.

I will say a couple things first; this blog is a compilation of feats displayed by warriors within the series, and then at the end my thoughts of why i think it can be scaled among warriors, and who exactly are the "skilled" people in Re Zero.

Re-looking at it, i think the title of the blog should probably be renamed to something like "Re:Zero Warriors" or "Re:Zero Warrior Abilities", cause saying something like i am so skilled i can exude an aura isn't necessarily accurate, aura is just a thing which has been confirmed that every swordsman have.

Everything in the blog is subject to discussion, changes, removals etc. It's a draft if you will, the discussion here, will produce the final version.

Important things decided so far:

• Garfiel countering Elsa's analytical prediction stays as resistance
• Wilhelm being able to dodge the Unseen Hands is skill, and precognition, not instinctive action
• Cecilius fear manipulation is aura (fear inducing), while Wilhelm's seems to be social influencing
• Ram should get damage reduction
• Garfiel should get attack reflection
• Both Elsa and Garfiel's accelerated development based on Elsa's foresight should be removed.
• Ram and Marcos should get power mimicry
• Garfiel should get analytical prediction

Things that need staff attention:

• Ram as physically no different than a normal teenager, being able to dodge countless amount of Garfiels attacks with intuition and talent

 

[Fezzih_007]

I am still in Precognition, my review is probabally going to be long.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Following will express my concerns soon

 

[Zabazab]

Good read, gonna more thoroughly comb through it later, but regarding the talent + training section, I think these Reinhard-related Q&As are relevant as well- they basically affirm that talent is like a "level cap" every person has, and training is the process by which you reach that cap.

Sword Saints (other than Reid, who trained to reach his limit) are basically supernaturally boosted to the limit of their talent cap, which is why they appear unreachable.

Q: What ratio of talent and effort make up the basis of Reinhard’s strength?
A: It’s 100% talent. However, it’s certainly not true that he doesn’t make an effort. It’s the kind of issue where continuing Krillin’s training method can’t take you to the level Goku was at when he fought Buu.

Q: From what Julius was saying, Reinhard was amazing from when he was little, but was he fairly strong even without the Blessing of the Sword Saint? Also, around how many men's strength did he have as a child?
A: If, by 'When he was a child', you're referring to when Julius first saw him, then by that point his strength was at a level where the average royal knight couldn't take him on. Well, he wouldn't be able to defeat Julius or Commander Marcos, so in other words, he was at a level where he could defeat anyone without a name. That's without the 'Blessing of the Sword Saint'.

Q: Are Reinhard’s ability to be granted divine protections, and the Divine Protection of the Sword Saint separate? Or really, what kind of blessing is the Divine Protection of the Sword Saint? Is it ok to think of it as a blessing that simply makes you extremely strong?
A: The blessing of recognizing that you’re the Sword Saint. The blessing of being able to break the unbreakable. The blessing of being able to take your sword skill to the limit. He’s not really becoming stronger than the limits of his talent. In the end, even without the Divine Protection of the Sword Saint, Reinhard would be pretty much the same.

Also, while being skilled and being strong are not the same (as seen with Reinhard and Reid), a person who is more skilled with the Flow Method will be able to boost their strength with mana further than a less-skilled user.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Review Time​

Extrasensory Perception
This is fine

Aura
Before I comment on this, I want to remind that Aura is the "Ability to have energy envelop the user", so I want to ask how the character emanate such auras? It is magic? Because I don't think the story calling aura relsoves the facts that it actually needs to have a explanation to how they do it.
Like Nen in Hunter X Hunter, where it can erradiate bloodlust with the superpower, does the Aura in Re:ZERO works like this type of energy? It is a energy in the first place? Because people sensensing that a person is dangerous, is normal.

Cecilus.
Cecilus has an aura of swordsmanship

Aura of swordmanship, this kinda seems odd to me, but i don't know why

Fear Manipulation

Cecilus
Cecilus sword aura causes others become frightened

This seems more like imaginary to me. Like, this seems to be a more or less pov from Kariya, and she knows how strong Cecilus is, so while she is describing as if the swords are emminting death, because she is "afraid", her brain is like "Ok, he is dangerous" and is making she describe Regulus as dangerous.
Actually, this Quote proves my point:

However, the spirits feared Cecilus’s swords aura, because that power gave the impression of death without substance.

That don't prove this is Fear Manipulation. This is more akin to Social Influence actually:

It should be noted simply terrorizing the opponent either by authority, strength or demeanour only would qualify as Social Influencing, as Fear Manipulation would allow the user to inflict fear regardless of these factors" for the page of fear manipulation.

Old Wilhelm
Can radiate hostility which causes others to feel fear

This looks like the same thing, but only Subaru seems affected.

Movement Skill

Wasn't too sure what to call this, essentially these are skill feats that involve movement in some way.

Is probally acrobatics

Elsa
has freakish skill, which lets her avoid attacks, in a cellar with very little room to move around

Nothing exactly wrong, but you could just put that scene in the anime where she is jumping around Reinhard.

Ram
Even while being out of mana, thus being no different physically than a normal teenager, Ram could still dodge countless of Garfiel's attacks with intuition and talent

Right, this feat.
So, Garfiel is a supernonic character, and Ram is a normal girl with normal speed. This is physically impossible, even if she have speed. She can't react to his speed, can't moves as fast as him, and should not be able to attack him, she should get blizted.
This is mostly likely a outlier, even with skill she can't do this.

Garfiel
Garfiel can redirect the force of his enemies attacks

Okay, this is basically him guarding the attacks, and while this is movement, there's no difference from him dodge or trowing a punch. Is movement, but is complety normal.

Stealth Mastery

Rai/Ley
Rai was able to kill Crusch's soldiers without Rem sensing any fighting taking place

I mean, Rem as distracted with Regulus, and Roy most likely kill the soldiers very fast, i kinda doubtfull if is because they hide they precense.

Information Analysis

Sword Saints
Sword Saint's can intuitively grasp their opponent’s most vulnerable point

This just look like Wilhelm is joking. Like, she can do it, but this point don't exactly prove it.

Peak Wilhelm
Theresia sees white lines which are the path to victory, inevitably leading to her opponents death. These were shattered by Wilhelm, it didn't work

Ok, so Theresia have the blessing of Sword Saints that allows her to see the lines. Problem with is, if someone possess equal or greater skill relative to hers the lines will distort making her opponents attack paths difficult to read.
So thats a spefic weakness for Theresia information analysis, that don't make Wilhelm gain a resistance to information analysis in general.

Accelerated Development

Elsa
Elsa saw Beatrice attack once
Then when Beatrice attacked with a countless number of those same attacks, it didn't work

How exactly this is Accelerated Development? She sees the attack that she din't know that exist, and afterwords can dodge the attack because she is expecting. Like, if i fighting someone, and i don't know he can trow a fireball at me, when he suddendly does the fire attack, I now know that he can, and so I can prepare myself appropriately to defend myself agaist.
Where exactly AD comes into play in this?

Precognition/Analytical Prediction

Elsa
Every technique Elsa sees once doesn't work twice, as she foresees it coming

Ok while admitilly, this is kinda weird but, but it seems this is not Precognition or Analytical Prediction. If she did have Prego, she shouldn't be able to get tagged by the first kick of Garfiel, she already should see it coming. By the scans, it seems like Garfiel is telegraphing his movents in some ways, and Elsa noticed this and she as like "Oh, his gonna do that kick again" and as able to see it coming because of that.
Or not, I actually don't know, but the examples in the wiki don't comprove this theory.

Garfiel
As established in the 2 previous sections, the same attack doesn't work twice on Elsa, even if that second attack is done with far more numbers than the first one.
When fighting Garfiel however, he was able to counter this ability.

While this a skill feat for Garfiel, is not exactly resistance. She predict his kick, and get hit by a following attack for Garf, and while that's cool, Garfiel have made the strategy to sacrifice his foot to do the attack. For the scans it looks more like "Ok, i gonna telegraph my movements, so she knows my next attack, and i can land a hit on her"
That's not exactly analytical prediction, as much as Garfiel planning 2 step ahead, to make his attack.

Instinctive Action
This is fine.
Danmaku
This is okay, if not because of this:

Adding on to this, as shown under the "Instinctive Action" section, Julius can instinctively react to attacks. It is also shown that he does so to invisible attacks

Julius emerged from behind a cover of dense trees within the forest. The moment he did, his very flesh reacted to the hail of the invisible light-missiles with the physical enhancement gifted to him by Ine, the light-element greater spirit. It was the same card he had played in his battle with Cecils, one that substantially improved Julius’s reactions. The moment his heightened senses detected an attack, he would bring up his sword to block it at the speed of thought. „

Yet Julius was helpless against the Unseen Hands, only Subaru could detect them

If the implication is that make the unseen hands layered invisible, it need more prove.
1- Wilhelm is not avoiding the invisible hands with just instictive reaction, he trowing dirt at the hands, and the his able to see the direction where the hands are coming. It does involves skill, but that is not just him sensing invisible attacks.
2- The scan you showing just looks like the missiles are moving so fast that is described as invisible, not that they are literally invisible.

Perception Manipulation
This is fine
Accuracy/Precision
This is fine
Power Mimicry
This is fine

Now i am in Break, i continue the review later.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Good read, gonna more thoroughly comb through it later, but regarding the talent + training section, I think these Reinhard-related Q&As are relevant as well- they basically affirm that talent is like a "level cap" every person has, and training is the process by which you reach that cap.

Sword Saints (other than Reid, who trained to reach his limit) are basically supernaturally boosted to the limit of their talent cap, which is why they appear unreachable.



Also, while being skilled and being strong are not the same (as seen with Reinhard and Reid), a person who is more skilled with the Flow Method will be able to boost their strength with mana further than a less-skilled user.

Whats Flow Method.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Whats Flow Method.

Flow Method (流法): A method of handling mana within one's body and utilizing it in order to enhance their own physical strength. Mana-based marital art techniques such as "Palm of the Fist King" can be created and performed with mastery.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

This seems more like imaginary to me. Like, this seems to be a more or less pov from Kariya, and she knows how strong Cecilus is, so while she is describing as if the swords are emminting death, because she is "afraid", her brain is like "Ok, he is dangerous" and is making she describe Regulus as dangerous.
Actually, this Quote proves my point:
However, the spirits feared Cecilus’s swords aura, because that power gave the impression of death without substance.
That don't prove this is Fear Manipulation. This is more akin to Social Influence actually:
It should be noted simply terrorizing the opponent either by authority, strength or demeanour only would qualify as Social Influencing, as Fear Manipulation would allow the user to inflict fear regardless of these factors" for the page of fear manipulation.
Old Wilhelm
Can radiate hostility which causes others to feel fear
This looks like the same thing, but only Subaru seems affected.

Yes there has been a debate before on what counts as Aura based Fear Manipulation and Social Influencing,


The difference is whether or not the victim can sense auras or not.

It only becomes Fear Manipulation, if the aura inflicts individuals that are unable to sense auras or power to begin with, otherwise its Social Influencing.

 

[Zabazab]

Whats Flow Method.

The universal technique used by all physically superhuman characters.

Essentially mana is utilised within the body to grant superhuman physical abilities, as well as other abilities dependant on the user's mastery.

“Sometimes it’s faster to just swoop in and hit them than to use magic, right?”

And, while this not-Spiritual Arts User-like statement was one that ought not be espoused by one such person, the gist of the general attitude towards magic in the Vollachian Empire was more-or-less that.

Though it was a highly misunderstood fact, the kind that had gone unwritten in any books at that, the use of Mana in the human body was not only limited to casting magic.

No small number of martial arts techniques had their foundation in the use of Mana, in the same way it was used in Spirit Arts, Curse Arts, and in the activation of some Meteors.

It was perfectly natural for an elite warrior, especially, to use Mana to strengthen his own body.

Supposing an occasion where one possessing unnatural physical abilities were to be compared to an ordinary person, the trick would lay in the handling of the Mana that circulated within the body――a technique called the Flow Method, which was done consciously.

However――

“Cha-cha-cha-cha!”

With a thump, only one foot touched the ground, and in an instant the distance closed by a dozen meters.

Tracking the figure, from the perspective of a bystander, would seem as if time had been stolen, given its extraordinary body movements. But that was no optical illusion, nor was there present an anomaly in said bystander’s eyes.

The anomaly was none other than the blue-haired boy running through the battlefield.

Following the explanation given immediately before, the boy’s sprinting, which effortlessly transcended human limitations, was without a doubt brought about by the Flow Method. However, there was no caveat to the boy’s young age and sharp good looks; no record of the days spent learning such techniques was present, apparently.

In the world, beings of the sort were seldom seen―― Beings who were born unknowingly exercising the Flow Method, which was even said to be the pinnacle of martial arts, beings that left those shackled by the natural order in the dust.

The ice sword had been created by Emilia. Therefore, Emilia would not feel the cold, but it might be too cold for Cecilus, who had not created them.

“Come to think of it, Priscilla never said it was cold either, but…”

“Rest assured. I can make up for this inconvenience with the Flow Method, so both myself and the people in the Battalion are fine. Well, I tend to get out of my flow when the Boss and the others are involved, but it’s a fact that I’m especially special for handling it naturally!”

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Flow Method (流法): A method of handling mana within one's body and utilizing it in order to enhance their own physical strength. Mana-based marital art techniques such as "Palm of the Fist King" can be created and performed with mastery.

Okay then all what @Zabazab said is fine then.

 

[Zabazab]

I think the fear manip examples are closer to Aura (Fear Inducing). Re:Zero auras tend to fall under "Overwhelming" and "Fear Inducing".

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I think the fear manip examples are closer to Aura (Fear Inducing). Re:Zero auras tend to fall under "Overwhelming" and "Fear Inducing".

You can index it as such but as long as we are aware that resistance to Fear Manipulation isn't required but the following can bypass it then thats fine:

• Lack of extrasensory perception
• Supernatural Willpower
• Superior Strength

 

[Zabazab]

I mean, Rem as distracted with Regulus, and Roy most likely kill the soldiers very fast, i kinda doubtfull if is because they hide they precense.

I disagree. Rai not only should have a swordsman's aura due to his incredible skill, but also produces Miasma, Rem could sense Subaru's miasma from across a forest. I think trying to blame Rem being distracted when Rai slaughtered dozens of skilled veterans just a few tens of metres away doesn't hold up, Rai most likely hid his presence.

Where exactly AD comes into play in this?

Being able to counter/avoid any attack you see once before mid-battle, even if spammed in massive numbers, sounds like an accelerated decelopment to me.

Or not, I actually don't know, but the examples in the wiki don't comprove this theory.

It looks like Elsa gains precog for any attack she has seen before, which is actually quite useful for an immortal woman.

The scan you showing just looks like the missiles are moving so fast that is described as invisible, not that they are literally invisible.

Balleroy uses Yang and Wind magic to make him and his magic missiles invisible. It is not a metaphor.

 

[VortechsTG]

Aura
Before I comment on this, I want to remind that Aura is the "Ability to have energy envelop the user", so I want to ask how the character emanate such auras? It is magic? Because I don't think the story calling aura relsoves the facts that it actually needs to have a explanation to how they do it.
Like Nen in Hunter X Hunter, where it can erradiate bloodlust with the superpower, does the Aura in Re:ZERO works like this type of energy? It is a energy in the first place? Because people sensensing that a person is dangerous, is normal.

It's not entirely clear the exact method by which it occurs (as with most things) but it's probably just a mana thing. It's only detectable by characters who can sense aura though and is detected even when they don't know they're there so it is aura.

Fear Manipulation

This seems more like imaginary to me. Like, this seems to be a more or less pov from Kariya, and she knows how strong Cecilus is, so while she is describing as if the swords are emminting death, because she is "afraid", her brain is like "Ok, he is dangerous" and is making she describe Regulus as dangerous.
Actually, this Quote proves my point:

That don't prove this is Fear Manipulation. This is more akin to Social Influence actually:

I can agree it's social influencing via aura.

Okay, this is basically him guarding the attacks, and while this is movement, there's no difference from him dodge or trowing a punch. Is movement, but is complety normal.

I agree

While this a skill feat for Garfiel, is not exactly resistance. She predict his kick, and get hit by a following attack for Garf, and while that's cool, Garfiel have made the strategy to sacrifice his foot to do the attack. For the scans it looks more like "Ok, i gonna telegraph my movements, so she knows my next attack, and i can land a hit on her"
That's not exactly analytical prediction, as much as Garfiel planning 2 step ahead, to make his attack.

I agree.

1- Wilhelm is not avoiding the invisible hands with just instictive reaction, he trowing dirt at the hands, and the his able to see the direction where the hands are coming. It does involves skill, but that is not just him sensing invisible attacks.

I agree. Well, he can sense invisible attacks but not the unseen hands.

2- The scan you showing just looks like the missiles are moving so fast that is described as invisible, not that they are literally invisible.

Well they are. Balleroy even makes himself invisible.

 

[Fezzih_007]

I disagree. Rai not only should have a swordsman's aura due to his incredible skill

Gonna talk about this later

, but also produces Miasma, Rem could sense Subaru's miasma from across a forest. I think trying to blame Rem being distracted when Rai slaughtered dozens of skilled veterans just a few tens of metres away doesn't hold up, Rai most likely hid his presence.

Eh, Subaru level of Miasma should be way higher than Rai, since he can increase it, so i don't think using him as comparitive work.
And there's two guys that are emmiting Miasma, so is understable she smelling one, and don't notincing the other.

Being able to counter/avoid any attack you see once before mid-battle, even if spammed in massive numbers, sounds like an accelerated decelopment to me.

Is not, is just being smart. Is not like her skill increase incresead or something, her just know the existance of a attack now, and can prepare herself accordily.

Balleroy uses Yang and Wind magic to make him and his magic missiles invisible. It is not a metaphor.

Really?

 

[Zabazab]

Eh, Subaru level of Miasma should be way higher than Rai, since he can increase it, so i don't think using him as comparitive work.
And there's two guys that are emmiting Miasma, so is understable she smelling one, and don't notincing the other.

Subaru's is much higher. To the degree that it is impossible to tell if anyone near him produces Miasma like in Greed IF. Other Authority Users (except Satella(?)) don't produce so much.

Rem should be able to tell that there is a source of miasma/aura just several tens of metres away, and be able to tell that fighting was taking place, dozens of veteran soldiers were slaughtered by Rai yet neither her nor Crusch could tell.

Rem "was dumbfounded that she had not even sensed the combat taking place." Rai using stealth/hiding his presence just feels the most obvious to me.

Is not, is just being smart. Is not like her skill increase incresead or something, her just know the existance of a attack now, and can prepare herself accordily.

The speed at which Elsa becomes impossible to hit with an attack she has seen is too great to be just that. A single observation of an attack and it will never hit her again. She's developing a counter/precog(?) at an accelerated rate.

Really?

Yes, you should read EX 4. His magic and dragon riding capabilities are what make him uniquely dangerous as a Divine General.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Random cultist have miasma that affects the surroundings, no life is around, even the wind stops blowing.

Why, then, had Subaru stopped? That was because—

“It’s…too quiet, isn’t it…?”

Subaru had paused because he sensed something was wrong. Unintentionally, he repeated what Otto had said earlier.

When he looked around, there was no change in his surroundings whatsoever. Compared to the rustling of leaves as the wind passed through, his own breath was quite noisy.

But that was all he heard. And to Subaru, who’d spent nearly two months in these lands, it felt wrong. The oppressive silence, without even the sounds of insects, was abnormal.

—And then, something suddenly appeared, slipping neatly into Subaru’s consciousness.

“Wh…what?!”

He recoiled a step, his throat tightening from shock. Without a sound, a person had appeared in front of him. Furthermore, the figure’s entire body was shrouded in black clothing, with something like a hood on, so that even the face of this complete stranger was concealed.-Volume 5, Chapter 3

“—Outta my way.”
Really, there were many things that he wanted to ask them. If this had happened before he’d resigned himself to death, he’d have had a mountain of inquiries. But by then, even that sentiment was a mere worthless relic.
At Subaru’s brief command, the black-robed figures did not voice a single sound of dissent as they melted into the darkness and vanished. As they disappeared from his sight, Subaru noticed that the world was filled with silence. He no longer heard the howls of the beasts he wanted to come after him, nor the ceaseless cries of insects—not even the wind. It was as if all living creatures scorned the Witch Cult.-Volume 6, Chapter 4

Rem detect miasma while in a crowd of people, and probably tens of meters away

[Rem: ──!?]

In the middle of doing that, Rem smelled an unbearable stink that slipped into her nasal cavity, and she stopped moving.

[Rem: ────]

The chills go through Rem’s whole body, and she looks all around her as she stood still.

The crowd of people walking avoid the girl who stood still, as if they were annoyed. Without even minding those reactions, Rem sharpened her sense of smell as she looked for the source of the stink.

This feeling, this scent, it had to be the smell she came across in that basement. It was the scent she smelled on that fiery night when Rem and Ram’s village burned.

She didn’t have a reason nor any proof. However, this was the evil scent that deserved to be punished.

[Frederica: ──Rem, what’s wrong?]

Frederica notices that Rem stopped, and she calls out to her. However, Rem turned around without answering her, and the stink──she turned her attention towards the path that lead to the alley where that wafted.

[Frederica: Rem──!?]

Rem, following the smell, pushes her way through the crowd and rushes into the alley. Behind her, Frederica called Rem, almost sounding like she was screaming, but it didn’t make her slow down.

When she entered the alley, the capital’s main street lost its splendor, and she rushed into a dim space that blocked sunlight and sound. While Rem blotted out the noise that could be heard from afar with her footsteps and breathing, she looked in the narrow path with her eyes wide-open.-The Hidden Village Oni Sisters Chapter 4

Rem can accurately detect miasma all around a city

They were at the capital’s slums, the section facing the outer wall──a large cat kicked the roof of the ruined house, and it landed as it raised a cloud of dust. The little Oni on its back looked right through the man standing before her with piercing eyes.


He was a sluggy, short, and somewhat fat man. His face and clothes weren’t unique at all; he was so ordinary that if he slipped into a crowd, you’d lose sight of him instantly. Even that was probably part of what the man wanted.


But that ulterior motive was pointless now that there was nothing he could do about this situation.


[Frederica: What a perfect spot for evil schemes.]


[Rem: ──It’s also a perfect place for a scoundrel to suffer a lonesome death.]


Rem, who said a cruel statement, smelled a stink that was stronger than anything she had smelled before. It was as strong as the smell of the man that was tied to the basement warehouse. In others words, he was a part of them.


──Rem and Ram’s enemy, an evil that had to be punished by the Onis.


Rem and Frederica followed Ram’s instructions and went all around the capital as they pleased, destroying the magical miasma stone traps one by one. The combination of Ram’s predictions and Rem’s sense of smell thwarted the witch cult’s plan perfectly, but it was all thanks to Rem that they were able to chase down the principal offender.-The Hidden Village Oni Sisters Chapter 4

Ley seems stealthy to me to get pass Rem;s senses.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

The others addressed a lot so i won't touch on those, i share the same thoughts. Just a couple things

Ok, so Theresia have the blessing of Sword Saints that allows her to see the lines. Problem with is, if someone possess equal or greater skill relative to hers the lines will distort making her opponents attack paths difficult to read.
So thats a spefic weakness for Theresia information analysis, that don't make Wilhelm gain a resistance to information analysis in general.

This is kinda iffy? You're saying that because someone else is as skilled as her the lines become blurry due to a weakness of ability. Wilhelm literally cuts them, it's not something happening on Theresia's part, but Wilhelm, so why would we assume the weakness is due to Theresia, and not Wilhelm actively breaking it?

If the implication is that make the unseen hands layered invisible, it need more prove.
1- Wilhelm is not avoiding the invisible hands with just instictive reaction, he trowing dirt at the hands, and the his able to see the direction where the hands are coming. It does involves skill, but that is not just him sensing invisible attacks.
2- The scan you showing just looks like the missiles are moving so fast that is described as invisible, not that they are literally invisible.

Balleroy can indeed become invisible as the others have said

“I can use light magic to bend light around me and wind magic to diffuse my aura. Now, think y’ can find me and Carillon here?”
Using magic to make himself and his mount appear as if they were part of the scenery, he flew where he pleased and shot at his leisure; he was functionally invisible. If there was a downside, it was that Balleroy himself couldn’t hear anything, but there was no chance of his being discovered. It was a small price to pay to become a sniper who was constantly in motion—a battlefield nightmare.
Invisible, unsearchable, unblockable. This unique combination of dragon-riding talent and an exceptional capacity for magic had earned Balleroy the nickname of Magical Sharpshooter. His actions had brought honor to the imperial army and, ultimately, ushered the man into the ranks of the Divine Generals.-Ex Novel 4, Diplomacy By Bloodshed

I do agree that while the Unseen hands are invisible, Wilhelm detects them using dirt, which is still a good skill feat, he isn't reacting to them on instinct or anything. It says a lot about his ability to respond quickly to a large number of attacks, that said, Balleroy's attacks are invisible, which has been shown by Julius and The Hornet to be things the characters can detect, but the Unseen Hands are something that they can't, thus it's more "invisible"

Edit: I should also note something, unless i am mistaken the first encounter between Wilhelm and Geuse he didn't use dirt, it was just straight up analytical prediction that let him avoid the Hands. That very same quote i posted in the precog section. The issue with Geuse is one of awareness, without Subaru, nobody can deal with his Hands on first encounter, and once you know about them, unless you do like Julius and share senses with Subaru who can see the Hands, it's still impossible, that is unless you're Wilhelm you can still predict them, or use dirt.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Right, i gonna post a response tomorrow, sinceei need to sleep right now, good night.

 

[Greatsage13th]

Someone who is 130x slower being able to dodge attacks from someone that much faster than them. Just indicates skill.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Someone who is 130x slower being able to dodge attacks from someone that much faster than them. Just indicates skill.

No.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Lets not bring that stupid topic here, lets keep talking about things that actually matter.

It should be common sense that it is impossible to weave through a multitude of attacks faster than you can even think of doing it much less 130x faster.

---

Still drafting

 

[Worthless]

Cope

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Rather than consistently living up to your username, I suggest you do the opposite.

 

[BoastJr]

when did rezero turn into Baki in terms of skill .

This blog is very long and seems detailed. Some of the abilities may seem questionable but alot seems straightforward.

I will make a proper response later

 

[Arnoldstone18]

when did rezero turn into Baki in terms of skill .

Always has been

 

[Greatsage13th]

No.

As someone who knows a character who casually knocked out a character that had over 1287x greater perception speed than the other without any hax while the latter could not even perceive him despite him being 1287x slower than the other's perception . Yeah. There is an even bigger elephant in the room than the meager 130x.

 

[Greatsage13th]

Rather than consistently living up to your username, I suggest you do the opposite.

Dude. Uncool.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

As someone who knows a character who casually knocked out a character that had over 1287x greater perception speed than the other without any hax while the latter could not even perceive him despite him being 1287x slower than the other's perception . Yeah. There is an even bigger elephant in the room than the meager 130x.

Boosting perception is not the same as boosting the physical body to those levels. Outskilling someone with a massively boosted perception speed is a good skill feat because the attacker had years to think of his next move and still got ******. Dodging something that can blitz you is an outlier.

The only elephant in the room is a bigger multiplier amping something entirely different. False comparison tbh.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Also if you eventually think of a character maneuvering through many attacks at once that can blitz said character then they’re also just Plot induced stupidity.

Only way some shit like that happens is via aim dodging.

 

[Worthless]

Ram with horn is considered as one of the strongest within the verse, stronger than even regulus and the witches. There is also a theory that Rem is not originally supposed to be born, Pandora (or at least someone else who knows her power) used their power in order for it to happen so her power will be split in half or at least reduce to some extent... She may have lost her horn thus making her powerless but that doesn't mean her Monstrous Instinctive Action was taken away as well.

Her case is kinda similar to Boji from ranking of kings, kinda. Also I don't fvcking like how you keep using the word "It's impossible" you literally have characters in BC manipulating the fate, time, ******* with concepts, rules and nothingness itself and dodging and tanking an attack that is 20x stronger (and faster) than their shit. FTL alone is impossible by nature. The word "Impossibility" hold no meaning within a fiction. So cope. Tho not saying it's exactly 130x difference but it's definitely up there just don't know the exact number.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

I am pretty neutral about Ram's feat, I just documented that it exists, that said

Rather than consistently living up to your username, I suggest you do the opposite.

This comment is completely uncalled for.

This particular topic seems like it needs to be looked into further, possibly by some staff, though I don't want to call any until it's all been decided everything exactly that's changing on the profiles.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Ram with horn is considered as one of the strongest within the verse, stronger than even regulus and the witches. There is also a theory that Rem is not originally supposed to be born, Pandora (or at least someone else who knows her power) used their power in order for it to happen so her power will be split in half or at least reduce to some extent... She may have lost her horn thus making her powerless but that doesn't mean her Monstrous Instinctive Action was taken away as well.

Why? You just said she lost her horn and became powerless, why would't her instinctive action got worst?

Her case is kinda similar to Boji from ranking of kings, kinda. Also I don't fvcking like how you keep using the word "It's impossible" you literally have characters in BC manipulating the fate, time, ******* with concepts, rules and nothingness itself

This have nothing to do with a outlier.
The example you give are Impossible for real life stardard yes, but in fiction It is possible and the site accepts. The Ram feat is Impossible in real life, in the vs wiki site and in should be Impossible in the story too. Like, les't get our boy Subaru in the Room, and use his page as a example:

"Note: Subaru being able to put up a fight against Elsa in arc 1 was complete PIS as he was just an in-shape human that was transported into a fantasy world, so it made no sense that he could fight against superhuman characters. Also, the fight was filled with PIS, especially when Subaru was able to react to Elsa faster than Reinhard could. The author has also stated that Elsa was just playing around with Subaru because he was so weak."

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Subaru_Natsuki#:~:text=Note: Subaru,was so weak.
Subaru is able to react and fight Elsa, the supersonic character, even trought he just your average teenager, and this is considered PIS.

Ram in this situation is out of mana, and can't increase her physical atributtes, making her a normal teenager in question of speed.
Garfiel is a supersonic speed character, and so he could easily blitz her. He does not, and Ram can keep with him, using the excuse of talent.

Both situation are the same, a average character with normal speed is keeping up with a supersonic character. So If one is consired a outlier, so does the other. This is plot índice stupidity. Ram should't be able to fight Garf by our sites rules.

and dodging and tanking an attack that is 20x stronger (and faster) than their shit.

Or this is a outlier, or there's a explanation for How that can survive the attack.

FTL alone is impossible by nature. The word "Impossibility" hold no meaning within a fiction.

It does, when we talk about a story.
Example: We have a situation where these childs need to reach Texas in 1 say to give a medicine to one of they friends, but currently they are in New York. There's two things that could happen now:
1-They get a telatransport that they already have or vehicle that travel super fast and travel to Texas.
2-The scene cuts, and suddenly they are there in Texas, and the explanation they give is "we came running as fast as we could"
Now, which one is logical Impossible? The kids with they estabilish equipament of travel using them or the kids running on foot for New York to Texas?
Is the Second yeah, exist things that are Impossible in fiction yeah, is not because that It did happen that we should just give the handwave.

So cope.

Tho not saying it's exactly 130x difference but it's definitely up there just don't know the exact number.

Is the difference between a super Sonic character and a average human.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

@Fezzih_007 That Subaru note should be modified honestly. Subaru has a gate that takes in mana, just like everyone else in this world, the outlier part is that he reacted faster than Reinhard, we currently accept that he can indeed react to Supersonic characters.

Doesn't take anything from your argument though.

 

[Zabazab]

God damn Ram is divisive.

I think we don't need to take the 130x difference literally if that's gonna cause so many issues.

Considering the in-text explanation of the feat is "intuition and talent", I think we can call the feat just "being able to handle far faster opponents via a combination of Skill, Instinctive Action, and possibly Analytical Precog.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

That's my opinion, but some people think the multiplier is cool . That's something that can be looked into indepth later with staff.

We don't need 3 pages just on Ram, there is other stuff to discuss here.

 

[Greatsage13th]

That's my opinion, but some people think the multiplier is cool . That's something that can be looked into indepth later with staff.

We don't need 3 pages just on Ram, there is other stuff to discuss here.

I'd keep the multiplier

 

[Fezzih_007]

Yeah, i can let the Ram stuff for later, i want to talk about the rest of the blog First.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

God damn Ram is divisive.

I think we don't need to take the 130x difference literally if that's gonna cause so many issues.

Considering the in-text explanation of the feat is "intuition and talent", I think we can call the feat just "being able to handle far faster opponents via a combination of Skill, Instinctive Action, and possibly Analytical Precog.

Agreed

 

[Arnoldstone18]

This comment is completely uncalled for.

Pretty sure the comment above that and the poor behavior he has shown to others (including staff) that disagree with him calls for it.

but let’s keep on with the discussion