Re:Zero Revisions

[Celestial_Pegasus]

So the rating for re zero have been bugging me for a while. First of all, scaling characters like Elsa Granhiert to a feat Reinhard van Astrea performed is completely ridiculous, even if Reinhard was causal, he is so far above her she shouldn't scale at all, and the fight was plagued with PIS like fodder like Natsuki Subaru being able to keep up with Elsa, Reinhard is also far faster than her, and also the attack Reinhard used is his strongest attack, he shouldn't have been able to handled Elsa easily without it, Elsa also got stomped by Cecilius who is comparable to Reinhard.

Next this feat for Sphinx (Re:Zero) assumes the ceiling was vaporized but i read ex novel 2 and nothing was said about vaporization, this was said instead:

"The heat burned his hand, and the pain forced a scratchy sound out of his throat. Deflected by Grimm's defense, the beam destroyed the ceiling and brought down the floor of the room above the great hall."

So no mention of vaporization, this would only be like a small building level feat.

Sphinx, Wilhelm van Astrea, Libre Fermi also should have there speed downgraded, the Wilhelm who fought Libre and Sphinx wasn't Hypersonic+, only Wilhelm power of love as the author calls it, which is Wilhelm after training for years after the demi-human war in order to beat Thearesia van Astrea is Hypersonic+. Young wilhelm>old Wilhelm which we see in the main series however so Libre and Sphinx should be Supersonic+ as even old Wilhelm>Elsa.

Now the question of where to put Elsa, Crusch, Old Wilhelm etc in terms of Ap is tricky. There is the feat of Garfiel Tinsel destroying a ceiling which puts him at small building level, and the sphinx feat which is also small building level, there is a feat of Rem as an 8 year old surviving a basement being blown up, however we have feats like Rem creating a ton of ice with Al Human, Emilia (Re:Zero) creating layers of ice.

So it would seem the characters are higher with magic. Then we also have feats like Rem surviving a pretty big explosio that is larger than trees, Julius Juukulius cutting throw Betelgeuse Romanee-Conti unseen hands which are larger than buildings and can cause destruction that ejects dust which go above trees as well, i remember some statements about Garfiel Tinsel being able to kick away a building, and another one about him being able to destroy the sanctuary building.

So ultimately seeing all these feats, i suppose the characters should be Building level, while they can be higher with magic, Rem being City Block level with Magic and Emilia being Multi-City Block level with Magic after regaining her powers.

One last thing, Beast of the End Puck should be City level, the four spirits are capable of destroying cities:

"The Four Great Spirits, the spirits who have undisputed strength.

Their existence and names are widely known and the way of associating with the Four Great Spirits has been handled as a very important challenge all over the world.

In fact, a whole city has been destroyed by touching the Four Great Spirits' anger."

So Puck should be City level along with Roswaal L Mathers who is equal to him, Echidna (Re:Zero) who is comparable to Roswaal, and all the other witches like Carmilla (Re:Zero), Daphne (Re:Zero), Typhon (Re:Zero) should be City level too.

And finally we are being too generous with the large island level ratings, it's from a feat Puck performed over an unknown period of time, I think we should remove them.

 

[ZERO7772]

Woah it's finally here, gonna read everything and replay later~

 

[The_Everlasting]

I will say that a casual attack is a casual attack. Reinhard being far above her does not impact that, unless I'm probably missing something.

The rest... I guess is fine? I don't know enough about it to say.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

It wasn't really causal, it's reinhard's strongest attack without reid, he absorbs mana from the atmosphere and shoots it out as an energy blast, it's still dumb imo that he would need to use it, and that she could survive when previously she was getting fodderize by reinhard. Overall as i said the fight was plagued with too much pis for my liking.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Then I agree with the downgrade.

 

[Therefir]

I agree with everything.

Also, Subaru should be 8-C with Unseen Hand, because it can hurt Garfiel.

 

[ZERO7772]

Hmm I understand your problem with Elsa, Reinhard is 7-B and his attack back then was calced to 8-B and Elsa survived, however, we know Rei-chan was super casual back then and his attack was in the range of 8-B I think we can still scale her to that IMO

Just because Puck and other spirits can mention having destroyed city in the past I don't think that gives them a solid 7-B rating, we don't know how they did it or how much time it took them

Yeah the Isladn thing should go

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

I still think it's iffy to scale to reinhard, and the feat happens in the manga, in the ln and anime he only destroy a building, albeit the manga does stick more to the ln than the anime so i wouldn't have an issue using it but the fight has so much pis idk if we should consider it legit, how does reinhard go from causally blocking everything elsa throws at him, and hurting her with his kicks, to needing to charge an energy blast, in other words a more powerful attack than his kicks and punches, is my issue.

Puck>Minerva who can rupture mountains with her punches, which puts her at small city level, him being city level isn't that unbelievable, the great spirits also have statements of destroying countries but don't know if we should put them at country level, might be a stretch.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Do the Spirits destroy cities with single attacks? If we don't know I cannot support 7-B.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

We just have statements of them destroying cities, honestly we should probably just leave them alone for now, since the important stuff where they actually fight is as usual untranslated, this was just from the prologue of that story, later on in the story emilia, puck and another great spirit are apparently destroying entire lakes and forests just clashing and that was without puck being in his beast of the end form.

This is so annoying, everything relevant for feats re zero is always untranslated. Anyway lets leave upgrading the spirits and those who scale to them alone for now, echidna and the other witches should still be upgraded to be comparable to what puck is at now though.

 

[ZERO7772]

Reinhard is still super casual in my eyes back then, the fight was full of PIS like you said and maybe the author didn't intend for Rei-chan to be as OP as he is much later in the series

Sure you can scale him to Minerva small city level statement but their lines about destroying a city is still vague, back then they claimed that puck would destroy the whole world "High 6-A" but it turned out he's ******* fodder and anyone from top tiers would wipe the floor with hin

 

[ZERO7772]

It's not far stretch to say puck is city level scaling to Minerva and with the support of other statement that says they may be able to destroy a whole country

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

You do have a point with that world ending nonsense, there are literally 4 other characters alive, like 3 in other countries who can fodderize puck, plus reinhard being in lugnica, puck clearly didn't make it that far in ending the world. Only thing we have is statements of destroying cities.

I think we should just not bother with the city level upgrade, and just wait for when bonds of ice is fully translated cause puck probably has better feats if even without being beast of the end mode he is destroying forests and lakes.

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

I'm actually waiting for a larger upgrade for Satella during the translation of later arcs like that girl from Fault Milestone. Like when you put Momika on actual steroids.

Put these on hold. The Bond of Ice alone will already end up putting Puck before he gained the Great Spirit form at larger than city level (in single blows). I've seen the translations.

Zero-chan should be able to find the Yen Press Volume 1 quote that Reinhard personally said he was holding back his attack, but I don't know if a downgrade from 8-B by one notch to 8-C is significant anyways. Too lazy because I have to pirate Volume 1 first.

 

[ZERO7772]

I say we remove the island part because it lack supporting evidence but keep the small city rating scaling from Minerva

I disagree with Elsa's downgrade tho

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

I have volume 1, don't really see anything about reinhard holding back, in fact he was sweating after unleashing his attack.

This does indeed seem like a waste of time though if we are downgrading them just to have emilia tank an attack which destroys lakes and forest, and everyone relevant would scale to that.

But who knows when we will get the translations, for now we should just gonna downgrade libre and sphix's speed to supersonic+, and just downgrade the rest to building level, and remove the large island level stuff too, so no upgrades.

Whenever bonds of ice is done translated we just reupgrade them, and by that time reinhard vs cecilius will also be done so probably will upgrade reinhard to mhs+ combat speed as well.

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

I think keeping it is fine because we have prefixes for that. Honestly we could have even kept it at Low 6-B instead of High 6-C as long as we thought to use the prefix.

 

[ZERO7772]

You are gonna scale them all back to Emillia and you know it ┬»\_(Òâä)_/┬»

Seems like waste of time for me.

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

Also somebody want to bother to calc this?

For the third wave, the mist created an illusion of a shadowy figure wearing a shadowy dress, which Al was unable to bring himself to harm even though he tried some 100,000,000 million times.

Trying to cut someone for 100,000,000,000,000 times huh.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

The profiles are just gonna be a lowball for now, cause pretty sure we aren't gonna get any translations for the feat in question for some months, and that's if the entire bonds of ice is out somewhere cause only seen 40 pages of it.

@Heinkel Doesn't really seem like a ap or speed feat, seems like hax is preventing the shadow from being harmed..

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

So Al can rewind 100 trillion times in a single fight. God damn man.

 

[ZERO7772]

You can pray for the Rem side stories to have some relevant feats and statement for the story ┬»\_(Òâä)_/┬»

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

Reinhard was holding back his attack. He said he had to or he will end up blowing up the slums.

Since the slum is still intact he sucessfully held back.

Keep the island level with the prefix. We actually should have used the prefix solution a long time ago already.

 

[ZERO7772]

Also somebody want to bother to calc this?

For the third wave, the mist created an illusion of a shadowy figure wearing a shadowy dress, which Al was unable to bring himself to harm even though he tried some 100,000,000 million times.

Trying to cut someone for 100,000,000,000,000 times huh.

I don't think we can calc something like unless we have time frame for the feat even if we go with the fact it's speed feat

 

[ZERO7772]

Pgeasus you sure he said he wasn't holding back? could swear he said something about holding back in the LN

I can check on the LN but if you already have it then it's waste of time

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

Also somebody want to bother to calc this?

For the third wave, the mist created an illusion of a shadowy figure wearing a shadowy dress, which Al was unable to bring himself to harm even though he tried some 100,000,000 million times.

Trying to cut someone for 100,000,000,000,000 times huh.

I don't think we can calc something like unless we have time frame for the feat even if we go with the fact it's speed feat

I mean for one thing I'm sure it did not take centuries... he rewinded 100 trillion times in that [less than centuries] time frame.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

I looked through volume 1 and only say him sweating nothing about him holding back.

I still say we remove the island level stuff due to the feat being vague, as it was done in an unknown timeframe.

 

[ZERO7772]

I actually read the fight from the LN and yeah Pegasus is right, they even said Rei-chan swung his hand at full power when he went to finish off Elsa

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Which is why it's total bs for elsa to survive that, full power attack from reinhard, she should be dead.

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

Like I said Reinhard will find him in at most a few hours on dragonback and prefixes will handle the rest, but I don't want to be locked down debating Puck too much.

Upgrading Satella later is the top priority. She's the main antagonist.

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

That was spoken in Subaru's POV. It's also in the manga that he (Subaru) says it was at full power.

I'm talking about when POV switches back to Reinhard after Subaru faints.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

BTW, blowing up a "city" in the world of Re:Zero isn't as impressive as blowing up a city in the Modern, 21st Century World. Re:Zero takes place in a medieval-ish fantasy world, with smaller cities than ours.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

@Heinkel The fact that we are debating it in the first place means the feat isn't clear cut, we need something defintive, not puck froze trees, forest, and towns over an unknown time frame, if bonds of ice really has the goods in terms of feats, this will only be temporary, like i said i recognize the profiles are lowballed.

Upgrading satella will depend on what feats she performs, we only have lore atm and not her herself doing anything.

Also both me and zero didn't see anything about reinhard holding back so until you find it, the downgrades are a go for now.

@Matt Maybe, the capital city of lugnica apparently has a population of 300,000 people.

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

Lugnica alone had a population of 50 million (not counting any of the other kingdoms; Kararagi had the largest economy while the Volakia Empire was the physically largest). That's the size of the United States in the late 19th century, and far larger than Republic of France (the largest country in Europe at the time).

The capital of Lugnica was surrounded in a metropolitan area by 7 cities in a concentric arrangement each of which had 300,000 population.

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

God damn it *************.

As Reinhard looked at the loot cellar that he had destroyed, he closed his eyes before the extent of the damage. As always, he was frustratedthat he could not properly control himself. All of this damage was the result of a slight miscalculation of power on his part. If he had been even more careless he could have leveled an entire block. He needed to be more careful.

You never had the FBI breaching your house did ya?

So yeah, he was still not at full power.

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

Actually, you can also look at Priestella. A smaller Lugnican city than the capital.




That City Hall you see at the end of the horizon? That's the center.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

In that case we can keep the city block ratings, only thing that will change now then is just some speed downgrades for sphinx and libre, and some ap upgrades for the witches, and getting rid of the large island level stuff.

 

[Heinkel_Astrea]

You still don't want to use the prefix? I spent many weeks for that.

Why not straight upgrade Minerva's punch to likely 7-A if you are going to use prefix anyways.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Rupturing mountains =/= destroying them.

I think the puck feat is too uncertain to list, and as i said i know the profiles are a lowballed, we might just reupgrade them later anyway so it's not that big a deal.

 

[Therefir]

Heinkel can you reduce the size of that image please?