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Is nobody gonna address what I said about the Prima Guide? And how it's an English-Only Guide that there's literally no way most of the people who worked on Mario Galaxy actually looked over?
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Re-examining Super Mario cast Tiers
- Thread starter TMaakkonen
- Start date
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- Tags
- super mario
Dust_Collector
They/Them- 7,745
- 8,750
I addressed it earlier by mentioning we've accepted english only stuff for a while and not just for Mario, 2-B Golden Goddesses, 3-A/Low 2-C high tier Zelda characters, and Majora's space-time destruction as examples come from old english websites and guides.
You would probably need to have our standards for this kinda stuff as a whole changed before saying the Prima guide for Mario Galaxy can't be used. As it currently stands we allow these things. And now I shall crawl back into the shadows.
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You do understand that we don't use the 3-A stuff for Majora anymore, right?
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I think you're missing the point.
Guides are fine to use. They always have been across many sites. Sometimes they are the only things giving any lore or explanation on what's happening. We also don't have many contradictions to this guide unlike some others I know and it has the Nintendo quality assurance seal.
And just so you know, in-game Japanese text may even support the English guide. I believe in Japan Bowser in the dialogue right before the final fight says something akin to "this star will become the core of my new universe!"
Guides are fine to use. They always have been across many sites. Sometimes they are the only things giving any lore or explanation on what's happening. We also don't have many contradictions to this guide unlike some others I know and it has the Nintendo quality assurance seal.
And just so you know, in-game Japanese text may even support the English guide. I believe in Japan Bowser in the dialogue right before the final fight says something akin to "this star will become the core of my new universe!"
Dust_Collector
They/Them- 7,745
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You're aware we still use the guide and Majora still has Space-Time corruption because of it right? He was downgraded from 3-A because it was decided it doesn't scale to his AP anymore not because we stopped using it.
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Do you understand just how little that means, even in the Wii era?
Well I'd like to see that for myself. If Japanese text supports the Prima Guide then it's fine. One of my main issues with the Prima Guide is that it's claims go almost completely unsupported in the game itself, at least in the English version.
DragonLord
She/Her- 1,570
- 1,590
not doubting you, but I would be interested in seeing this
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Are you gonna address how the power scaling is bad, or are you gonna sit here and complain about a guide because that's all you can do to prevent tier 2?
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The power scaling is irrelivent. The feats and canon are the issue.
Mario obviously scales to Bowser, but what that means is what we're talking about.
DragonLord
She/Her- 1,570
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I see, the translation seems a bit incomplete so I’ll ask a friend of my Girlfriend who can give there input, right now the wording really sounds to me more like Bowser will expand his empire across the universe rather then making a new Universe, I’ll see if I can get something more definitive
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I fail to see what the issue is
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Worth noting he had already taken control of much of the universe anyways, with even troops at places on the edges of the universe. Him saying the army will spread and he'll make a galactic empire is probably in reference to the new universe he wishes to make.
I'm aware you can make the argument "new universe" here followed up by the other two statements means he's just spreading his army out and gonna rule the universe with an iron fist but like I said above, he literally already did that so this statement doesn't make sense interpreting it that way. He already has the means to traverse the universe as per Rosalina's word. There'd literally be no point to the star and Grand Star Reactors if he didn't plan to actually create a new universe because making an empire and expanding were legit already things he did.
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I will take that as a concession then.
For the canon, that is not getting changed ever. And no Mario staff even agrees on that. If you want an explanation, then you can talk to Weeb on discord.
As for feats. List why they're wrong then.
DragonLord
She/Her- 1,570
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So my friend hasn’t made a full translation, but they do feel that the use of “Star” In the Imgur translation is probably not accurate, least it’s not referring to the Grand Star
大王星
大 big/great
王 king
星 star/planet
While Grand Stars are spelt with different kanji
They do seem to get “core of the universe” in some case though
大王星
大 big/great
王 king
星 star/planet
While Grand Stars are spelt with different kanji
They do seem to get “core of the universe” in some case though
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I didn't say it was a Grand Star. I said great star, as in, the star you see when the camera pans out.
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I should also note that in reference to the English version, the very first line parallel to the Japanese line is the one about creating his galaxy at the center of the universe. The direct parallel to the Japanese line relates to creation. Therefore there seems to be more logical evidence pointing towards creation being the intent.
DragonLord
She/Her- 1,570
- 1,590
Seems in there opinion the full line would be something like thisSo my friend hasn’t made a full translation, but they do feel that the use of “Star” In the Imgur translation is probably not accurate, least it’s not referring to the Grand Star
大王星
大 big/great
王 king
星 star/planet
While Grand Stars are spelt with different kanji
They do seem to get “core of the universe” in some case though
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- Thread starter
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Well, I apologize for using bad arguments. I’m just confused.
So many events in Mario are PIS. Most games plot apparently. What makes Wario World not PIS? Most series heavily don’t favor that level of power, but those are said to be PIS. What makes Wario World more important story wise? It seems majority of games have PIS, so its odd that minority is given bigger precedence.
And like, yes? Do go find better arguments? This thread isn’t a distraction. You can absolutely post more evidence. I actually suggested that. More evidence would help.
But if someone said so to talk about it, I do think most of Uni support is weak.
A video game boss gloating is not a good source, so Olly’s lines are weak. It only makes sense if the series already fits this power.
Black Jewel’s destruction doesn’t literally destroy the pocket universe. That itself only fades away. World fading around you isn’t that clear universal survival feat. Ofc, this was to scale Wario’s AP from beating someone who did create that pocket Universe, then that’d be better argument.
The galaxy survival is seriously vague. Even the line from Prima Guide line. Rosalina even mentions stars dying causing birth of new cosmos. And Galaxy 2 has another Star Festival, even though said event is supposed to happen every 100 years. So that’s another weird story thing as well. But there is plenty to suggest that the cast didn’t survive it blatantly, rather the universe was rebooted.
It seems MP5 feat is uncertain in that other thread, which yeah, we have no idea on the time frame of it.
But I again absolutely recommend finding more evidence and post it here.
So many events in Mario are PIS. Most games plot apparently. What makes Wario World not PIS? Most series heavily don’t favor that level of power, but those are said to be PIS. What makes Wario World more important story wise? It seems majority of games have PIS, so its odd that minority is given bigger precedence.
And like, yes? Do go find better arguments? This thread isn’t a distraction. You can absolutely post more evidence. I actually suggested that. More evidence would help.
But if someone said so to talk about it, I do think most of Uni support is weak.
A video game boss gloating is not a good source, so Olly’s lines are weak. It only makes sense if the series already fits this power.
Black Jewel’s destruction doesn’t literally destroy the pocket universe. That itself only fades away. World fading around you isn’t that clear universal survival feat. Ofc, this was to scale Wario’s AP from beating someone who did create that pocket Universe, then that’d be better argument.
The galaxy survival is seriously vague. Even the line from Prima Guide line. Rosalina even mentions stars dying causing birth of new cosmos. And Galaxy 2 has another Star Festival, even though said event is supposed to happen every 100 years. So that’s another weird story thing as well. But there is plenty to suggest that the cast didn’t survive it blatantly, rather the universe was rebooted.
It seems MP5 feat is uncertain in that other thread, which yeah, we have no idea on the time frame of it.
But I again absolutely recommend finding more evidence and post it here.
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Believe me, I would absolutely accept universal Mario if it wasn't so questionable. You think that the stuff I'm saying about Mario supporters is just petty insults? Because it is that, but it's also to highlight that Mario fans have a tendency to blow things out of proportion for the sake of having a stronger verse. Almost every Mario versus thread I've been in argues that Mario characters lead with hax, which is blatantly wrong with Dimentio's mindhax being the sole exception.
I expect Mario fans to bend the truth to their benefit at this point, because I've seen it so many times before. There are powerful things about Mario that I genuinely believe in, like Mario's fatehax, because it's explained well. I don't just blindly hate Mario.
I expect Mario fans to bend the truth to their benefit at this point, because I've seen it so many times before. There are powerful things about Mario that I genuinely believe in, like Mario's fatehax, because it's explained well. I don't just blindly hate Mario.
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It's not PIS because Universal is consistent, and Black Jewel is the main antagonist of the game.
I just explained why they fit this tier and you literally see in the scene itself that Olly is bending reality to his will. He's not gloating, we can clearly see what he's doing.
Black Jewel created a parallel universe. A parallel universe has the same nature as a normal one. How much energy is needed to create a universe similar to ours? Low 2-C. What does it say on this site about attack potency equating to durability? This:
"Logically, characters capable of physically achieving a certain degree of energy output, must be able to at least withstand a comparable amount of damage, or their bodies would break apart from the strain and automatic counterforce, whenever they exert themselves."
If Black Jewel has Universal+ durability, and Wario can beat him, he scales. And because we know he created a parallel space time, we can assume that the universe was destroyed. Think TM, Think!
Where's the direct proof? We know Bowser was on top of the reactor, so where's the proof he died? We already know Bowser is Universal+ and thus him surviving it is a valid assumption to begin with. We will wait until you point out where it states in that Prima Guide that Bowser died. And don't say "it says narrow escape from a horrible fate" because that doesn't always mean death.
He will destroy dreams one by one. The time frame is irrelevant, we know he will destroy the dream universes, which are Low 2-C. Why bring up the most irrelevant shit?
There has been evidence this whole time. It has been in every previous thread up to this point. You just ignored it because "Mario could NEVER be universal, he dies from a walking turtle". We don't care about what your beliefs are, we're here to discuss feats.
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Destruction over time isn't used for AP. Majin Buu would destroy the universe over time, but is only 4-B.
So yeah, the timeframe actually is very relevant.
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If he says one by one, then it means he's destroying one dream and then moving on to the next over time. So it is Low 2-C. He didn't say he will destroy one dream over time. Pay attention.
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He dosn't say he'll destroy it instantly either. What you're basically saying is "He'll destroy each dream instantly because you can't prove he won't". Burden of Proof's on you, buddy.
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"Oh remember that time x character was gonna destroy a universe" "waaaaah we don't know if he'll do it instantaneously"
imagine bending the rules on the site just to prevent a character from being universal. that's literally what this whole thread is. no character has EVER had to specify a timeframe. you're literally arguing for something that would change the entire site. unless stated that it will be over time, then it's not up for debate.
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Who has Low 2-C from just claiming to be able to destroy a universe and nothing else?
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He has Low 2-C because it was stated by misstar, who is a reliable source. Name a character on the site that has to specify a timeframe for "x character is going to destroy the universe" with no further context. That burden on proof is on you buddy.
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Because the people on that thread won't have seen the prior arguments, not to mention arguing with multiple Mario fans is a ******* nightmare. I'd prefer to just debate with one if this is at all possible.
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yeah it will be a nightmare, your points suck and you've been nitpicking things that go against the site rules the entire time.
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You still haven't told me a character who gets Low 2-C from a statement alone.
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- Thread starter
- #272
That thread is also giving additions, which is for accepted feats, but the point of this is that most of accepted feats are really not clear enough.
DragonLord
She/Her- 1,570
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I just told you a reliable source says he will. That's how they get the tier. That's my response
Now answer this.
DragonLord
She/Her- 1,570
- 1,590
I mean he brought up Kid Buu but if you want another there’s Void Termina and his statement that’ll they’ll be the end of everything
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I cannot prove a negative. Burden of proof's still on you.
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1/999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999th of Low 2-C is still Low 2-C.
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Alright then, I'll destroy the entire universe one 9-B attack at a time.
He dosn't say he'll destroy the time in those universes, does he?
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we already have a thread that we are discussing about the feat that is under review right now, if you so much want to see what things were or were not said go to the thread and check it out.
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