Rayquaza at his peak vs Base form Frieza

[KillitwithC4]

Speed will be equalized for this fight, and it will take place on the Death star a few meters away from each other.

 

[Cropfist]

Rayquaza via experience, versatility, Frieza's arrogance and canonical type effectiveness making him resistant to Frieza's Ki's attacks and his Flying type attacks do more damage.

 

[FanofRPGs]

Rayquaza via experience, versatility, Frieza's arrogance and canonical type effectiveness making him resistant to Ki Frieza's attacks and his Flying type attacks do more damage.

Isn't Chi electric/psychic type?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Chi is fighting type. Cmon. We were just talking about aura sphere lol.

 

[SomebodyData]

Chi is not fighting type actually, according to what defines ki/chi, a lot of it is mental energy.

Ie psychic.

 

[FanofRPGs]

IDK who wins, what does Rayquaza usually have that makes him hax'd with exception of Delta Stream?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Going by how Ki is portrayed, the fact that Ki is only 1/3rd mind, the existence of Lucario and the moves mFocus Blast, Aura Sphere, and Bulk Up, and how mind/psychic attacks are portrayed, I highly doubt it's a Psychic type. Telekinesis, however, would be.

 

[SomebodyData]

Telekinesis is something ki can do. (Psychic)

The existence of Psycho Cut and Heart Stamp make it sound very possible.

Also, the other third is soul energy isn't? Not to mention its commonly referred to as life energy and spiritual energy.

 

[KillitwithC4]

Ki is made of energy, courage, and mind.

 

[SomebodyData]

^

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Psycho cut is literally a blade of psychic energy. Heart Stamp is Psychic because it was Jynx's special move. Unless you want to count TFS Popo, nothing in Dragon Ball comes close to resembling Jynx's abilities. Also, Heart Stamp is said to attack after making your opponent less wary by using something cute. Unless you're trying to say that Ranfan is a psychic type ki master, nothing, let alone anything FRIEZA would do would count as cute. Anyway, Lucario's whole existence trumps the examples anyway.Plus, ki in general is shown being rather physical, even with the beams, even though they are energy.

 

[SomebodyData]

Goku Black used Psycho Cut! Super-Effective!

Then there's still the very definition of ki in DBZ which is definitely not a fighting type kind of definition. (unless we consider energy, courage, and mind as fighting type. Also, ki is still called life force at the same time, so unless we consider everyone who manipulates life force as fighting types...)

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Isn't Ki dependant on physical strength however?

 

[SomebodyData]

Ki has many functions, one being the capability to increase physical strength. Not the other way around. Physical power has limits that ki transcends, its kinda like Bane's venom in a sense. Physical training is generally done to sharpen the mind and gain more control of ki (Lack of physical training causes a drop in ki control and ki power (ie Frieza not being able to contain all the ki in his body, causing a giant drop in stamina, Gohan (Buu Saga) still having quite a bit of muscle, yet drop in power) Sustainable damage to the body can have an effect, though it's less physical and more based on life force/ki being depleted due to damage.

Basically, it's like it's "real life" chi (which it's based off)

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

So is aura. Aura is literally the Pokemon equivalent of DBZ chi. There's a reason Kirby's ki attacks come from fighter, or Ryu is one of the greatest martial artists in his verse, and he's the one with ki attacks. Most media associate ki with fighting. Focus Punch. Focus Blast. Aura Sphere. Bulk Up.

 

[SomebodyData]

Yeah, most media does depict ki with fighting, however, as shown by how Akira describes ki, it is much more like the chi from real life martial arts.

Also, DB aura = Pokemon aura. And DB aura is a subset from ki. (Its that energy around the ki users)

Also, there is life force in Pokemon no? Shouldn't this be associated with that instead?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Considering Lucario gave his life force to save Mew and the tree with his aura (along with Ash), fighting is definitely the closest you could get.

 

[SomebodyData]

One tiny little problem with that, being that Lucario died to lack of aura not exactly life force (As shown by the fact that after completely depleting all his aura, Lucario still was able to live for quite a bit of time).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TO18djJL5zY <(When Lucario starts dying)

And according to the pamphlet given with the movie, aura is based on clairvoyance not life force.

 

[PaChi2]

Ki is closer to Fighting type imo. If the way goku and co get stronger is by physical training, their Ki grows with them, and they dont seem to do any mental training, its fair to assume that ki is more linked to the body than to the mind. So, fighting type.

 

[SomebodyData]

@Pa

"Physical training is generally done to sharpen the mind and gain more control of ki (Lack of physical training causes a drop in ki control and ki power (ie Frieza not being able to contain all the ki in his body, causing a giant drop in stamina, Gohan (Buu Saga) still having quite a bit of muscle, yet drop in power) "

Also, you do know Piccolo constantly meditates to get stronger right?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

That doesn't make sense. Physical training sharpens the mind. Isn't Goku supposed to be, sorry if this offends anyone, an idiot outside of combat?

 

[Faisal_Shourov]

That doesn't make sense. Physical training sharpens the mind. Isn't Goku supposed to be, sorry if this offends anyone, an idiot outside of combat?

It's combat experience I think. Even though Goku isn't really that smart in combat, I find Naruto characters far more intelligent battle wise

 

[SomebodyData]

@Cal ^

There are different kinds of intelligence ya know. (Like psychology compared to biology, etc...)

 

[PaChi2]

So, as you said, the stronger the body, the stronger the Ki you are capable of using (Frieza needing stronger form/body in order to use a stronger ki)and mind is required to make the most out of that KI. therefore, its more fighting than psychic.

 

[SomebodyData]

No I didn't say that?

I said that physical training is to sharpen the mind (combat wise)

Ki transcends the limits made by the body, not the other way around (frieza example)

If bodies determined ki power, then Nappa solos Beerus

 

[PaChi2]

well, you use Ki in order to amp you physical stats (speed, strength...), not your mental (goku would be a super genius otherwise). Its closer to Aura than what the Psychic types do in Pokemon imo.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@Cal ^

There are different kinds of intelligence ya know. (Like psychology compared to biology, etc...)

Thing is, Goku has none of it. Not in the field of biology, psychology, engineering, basic math, writing, certainly not driving. He knows about himself and that's it.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

We're getting very off topic here. Rayquaza wins imo, due to a wider range of attacks.

 

[BruceTheBatman]

Same.

 

[SomebodyData]

@Pa Last time I checked, psychic Pokemon can also amp up their stats (Calm mind?)

some psychic Pokemon have telekinesis (something ki also does)

Psycho Cut and Goku Black anyone?

Or the fact that ki is life force there and fighting/ psychic isn't.

Combat intelligence

I already talked about aura in my earlier posts.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Can ki make you smart and screw over minds? Because that's something Psychic types do. Also, calm mind is something that Lucario, and even Infernape, can learn naturally. Psycho cut is much more like the Destructo disc than the Spirit Sword. You're more likely to argue Normal or Steel type for that. Also, combat intelligence is just strategy. Combat EXPERIENCE is its own thing though. Which is what DB characters do. Combat intelligence would be studying Sun Tzu's The Art of War or something. Or learning pressure points. Following the examples of Alexander the Great.

 

[SomebodyData]

Thing is, Goku has none of it. Not in the field of biology, psychology, engineering, basic math, writing, certainly not driving. He knows about himself and that's it.

Not what the example was proving. He has combat intelligence not science intelligence.

Again, I have to state this. science intelligence =/= combat intelligence.

I'm going with Frieza for rather higher range, able to survive without several limbs (unlike Rayquaza), After-images, telekinesis, and Nova Strike, which basically acts like a barrier and an attack at the same time.

 

[SomebodyData]

Can ki make you smart and screw over minds? Because that's something Psychic types do. Also, calm mind is something that Lucario, and even Infernape, can learn naturally. Psycho cut is much more like the Destructo disc than the Spirit Sword. You're more likely to argue Normal or Steel type for that. Also, combat intelligence is just strategy. Combat EXPERIENCE is its own thing though. Which is what DB characters do. Combat intelligence would be studying Sun Tzu's The Art of War or something. Or learning pressure points. Following the examples of Alexander the Great.

You mean like how Mew can? Or Exeggcute? Or slowpoke?

The destructo disk can still be used as an example.

Ah I see, so by your logic, Tzu would have a lot of combat experience and no intelligence due to not having searched up on fighting?

Combat experience becomes combat intelligence.

You learn from experience no?

EDIT: sorry if my sarcasm comes out offensively, I'm multitasking hard right now.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I literally said the exact opposite of what you were saying about Tzu.

If Mewtwo can screw over minds, so can Mew. Slowpoke is way to lazy to do anything. Exeggcute has displayed intellect.

 

[SomebodyData]

"Combat EXPERIENCE is its own thing though,...Combat intelligence would be studying Sun Tzu's The Art of War or something.

But not smart level intellect, nor the ability to screw over minds.

 

[PaChi2]

exeggcute can use hypnosis, slowpoke can use whatever that attack was that unables the opponent to use the same attack. Mew should scale to mewtwo, actually.

 

[SomebodyData]

Ah in that case, Exeggcute still works for the intelligence example

Solosis can't screw over people's minds.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I said DBZ characters have combat experience. If they wanted combat intelligence they should read the Art of War or study pressure points.

 

[SomebodyData]

Again, experience becomes intelligence.

Again, by your logic did Tzu study anything like that?

No he learned through experience

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Solosis can however, see into the future (Future Sight) and do low level reality warping (Trick Room)