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Rayquaza at his peak vs Base form Frieza

I guess?

There's still the other "Pokemon's version of ki" being life force, which does exist.

To further disprove the fighting = ki thing, mind, soul, and courage =/= fighting in pkmn
 
@Pa

Ah I see.

Guess he didn't learn the kamehameha from experiencing it being used the first time.

Not to mention, this is frieza vs goku

No solosis doesn't. (The solosis example)
 
@SD Sorrh I edited my post afterwards, Im too tired to keep this. And sorry about the solosis thing, my memory of pokemon is not that good.
 
The Mind Body Spirit thing is inconsistent, because Buu has no mind, and Cell shouldn't have a spirit. and Vegeta should be eternally stronger than Goku, seeing how they're about equal in body and spirit, with Vegeta having the clear superiority in mind.
 
So now to prove you have intelligence you have to teach people?

They sharpen their mind with combat intelligence yes, but nowhere is it said that thats the specific requirement.

Heck, Frieza has intelligence from ruling a militant force and being an interstellar capitalist. The kais have knowledge over the universe and creations rather than combat.
 
If you have intelligence, you could prove yourself by teaching people, yes. I could prove my intelligence in algebra by teaching a group of high school freshmen.

I can count on my fingers how many DBZ characters have sharp minds.

You don't have to have intelligence to rule a military seeing how 1, he inherited it, and two, there were no other superpowers to interfere.

Kais prove my inconsistency point more, as they should be on beerus' level of ki was equally spread out.

This is so off topic. Rayquaza can raise its stats, heal itself, and counter Nova Strike with Dragon Ascent. Rayquaza also has superiority with his teeth and claws on physical standpoint, as well as size.
 
You can prove it, but not teaching a bunch of kids how to do something because you don't want to doesn't disprove it.

The capitalist part still stands.

No?... Beerus also has a lot of knowledge in combat, and soul/ courage isn't something the kais are known for.

Now that I think about it, does it even matter?

Frieza's stats are ~2x that of Rayquaza, so even if its not very effective, all it will do is make this fight balanced stats wise.

Healing itself causes Rayquaza to fall asleep, which isn't the best technique. Size only makes it harder to dodge Frieza's attacks. Especially, Invisible Eyes Beams.

Afterimage creation is basically double team, and Imprisonment Ball makes it incredibly hard for Rayquaza to even attack. Destructo Disk is also another technique he has.
 
>Resting = only 2 shots?

This isn't bound by pokemon game mechanics, sleeping generally takes a lot more time than that, especially in a sub-relativistic fight.
 
Actually now that I think of it, even if Frieza is a fighting type, Frieza will still deal 0.4 (About 40% of Mega Ray's AP) tenatons more than Rayquaza deals to him.

And mind you, Frieza's feat was in his restricted armor first form.

So basically I'm changing my reasoning to:

I'm going with Frieza for rather higher range, able to survive without several limbs, 40% AP advanatage (assuming its not very effective)

Healing itself causes Rayquaza to fall asleep, which isn't the best technique. Size only makes it harder to dodge Frieza's attacks. Especially, Invisible Eyes Beams.

Afterimage creation is basically double team, and Imprisonment Ball makes it incredibly hard for Rayquaza to even attack. Destructo Disk is also another technique he has.
 
Yet Danmaku, another game style, is legit? If we're not using game mechanics, then Rayquaza heals by falling unconscious, and wakes up fully healed by the commotion around him.
 
Danmaku is the result of having to make a game interesting, kinda like a little something called plot.

commotion? Pretty sure that wouldn't let him sleep to begin with, if we assume its incredibly noisy where they are.
 
Apparently, Danmaku isn't plot, because it has a page here for powers and abilities.

When has Frieza ever created after images? No, I'm actually asking that. I only remember him flash stepping.

It doesn't matter if his feat was in his first form. This match is set up as if he's somehow incapable of transforming.

One successful ancient power puts Rayquaza's AP at a number higher than Frieza's. Another one will make it a good amount higher.

Invisible eye beams are countered by Hyper Voice, and even then, I recall them being fully visible.

Finally, some of these things you're mentioning are attributed to final form Frieza.

Size makes it harder for Frieza to dodge Rayquaza's attacks. When would a size advantage ever be a bad thing? Not to mention Rayquaza's serpentine, slender body allows it to slip through attacks.

Finally, Frieza is cocky as anything. Rayquaza isn't.
 
Wait why are we trying to use Mental Characteristics to separate KI and Pokemon Aura? The very concept of Aura in the pokemon verse deals with mental type situations all the time...

Also ever heard of Focus Energy? Hell in order to use Focus Blast (by definition) you need to heighten your mental focus just to use the move each time.....

There's really no notable difference between them. Besides the titles they are literally the same thing in every way.
 
@Anime okay. I already noted it doesn't help Ray's case as much thanks to Frieza's superior feat.

@Cal Plot requires excitement, it requires change and sometimes fantasy. Because of that, stuff like Superhuman characteristics are born for a sense of disbelief, abilities like flame manipulation or etc too...

As for afterimages you're right, apparently he can do sonic warps. Which is basically afterimages.

I don't get the transforming point.

99% sure Frieza can just blow up the rocks with crazy finger beam barrage, kinda making it hard to be successful.

The only reason why Goku was able to react to it was because it makes his eyes shine, but Ray doesn't know that. And it is visible? Can't say I remember that.

Thats not even mentioning the fact that a pokemon can only learn 4 moves in latter at the anime and onwards during the anime, much like the manga.

Size advantage does give a disadvantage, that being Ray has to move more than Frieza does to dodge an attack.

Frieza may be cocky, but he does know when he has to go full out to take down a foe.
 
Frieza does in fact do whatever he can to win a fight, like blowing up a planet, or attacking his opponent when they lowered their guard.
 
It also means Rays attacks are harder to dodge. Funny thing is, this isn't the first time I had to argue this. Why someone would think that a fist larger than your body would be easier to dodge than something with a small hit box when moving in size is relative is beyond me. Not saying that to you in specifics though. And funnier is, it's only DBZ where that's being argued. What's easier? Hitting a fly that doesn't move due to the air force, or dodging a fly charging at you?

Only time Frieza went all out was against the super saiya

You really brought up the four moves argument...

Rayquaza knows when to get out of lines of sight, seeing how a few Pokemons' eyes light up (including Deoxys iirc) when they attack. Not to mention he only uses this once

Sonic Warp doesn't seem like cloning, and more like semi-teleporting according to DBW.

Small AP advantage is negated by the fact that it's halved.

Last thing is, you're making it sound like Frieza can block all of Ray's attacks, but Frieza will land all of his.
 
Frieza has the advantage over Rayquaza based off the context of the scenes where we get their DCs calced from.

Friza achieved 1.7 tenatons casually as he charged a deathball with no noticeable strain, Rayquaza was in a desperate situation where he needed the power of other 2 beings to stop earth from being pulled to the sun so we know he is sitting at 0.9 tenatons while doing his absolute best.
 
@Cal True, but what's easier, hitting a random pebble or hitting a giant tree?

Yes 100% Full Power, however, in his fight with Vegeta he revealed that his armor were actually restraints.

Sorry man, just that since its canon in most depictions, thought it might be overall canon, unless of course, it's not canon in PMD?

Hmmm, true.

I was trying to compare Sonic Warp more to the afterimages allowing him to trick Rayquaza

I was referring to the fact that the small AP advantage is only small with resistance, otherwise it's actually 2x higher and that's not mentioning the fact that Frieza did this casually, with his armor.

I'm not, however an important factor like ancient power is basically easily countered with Frieza's own telekinesis, just like how ancient power also negates the telekinesis.
 
Are you guys alright....

Ki can be Fire and flying type if you have watched the original Dragon ball...

So.. Psycic, Flying, Fire and fighting confirmed
 
Rayquaza due to his versatility and more diverse moveset I guess. Additionally, for reasons above.
 
Rayquaza has the experience and versatility advantage, as previously stated.

There's also the fact that Rayquaza knows Hyper Voice, which Frieza isn't likely to dodge.
 
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