Ram vs Sans (0-4-8)

[Fezzih_007]

The battle of the older siblings... Yeah, that's the connection between them.
They start 10 meters apart
Ram is in her 7-B tier, and have Rem sleeping one floor below her
Sans is in Sans tier
They fight on the white pumpkin mansion from Minecraft story mode
Speed equal
Votes:
"Pink is pure, trustworthy. There’s a reason it’s called a pinky promise":

"Die": SatellaTheWoE, VortechsTG, Zabazab, Phoenks

Broly appears, and takes them to his shirt store(Inco): Fezzih_007, RinneItachi, ShionAH, Passerby, Dragonite007, XxZetsuxX, ForkMorkPork, Spilxson2

 

[RinneItachi]

Hard to say. Sans can easily kill her via soul hax, and in-character he is not someone to mess around in a real fight, he goes for the win in the most effective way possible. Which is why he beat powerhouses like Frieza and Goku. But Ram could and most likely would dodge all of his initial attacks, and his main win-con is his first attack catching his opponent by surprise and killing them immediately. Meanwhile Ram has attacks that Sans literally can't see, but it's not out of reach to say he could even dodge those due to instinctive reactions, I mean he can literally dodge attacks while sleeping, so not being able to see an attack shouldn't be a problem.

Either Ram tags him with her blade early on, Sans kills her with his first attack, or it becomes a battle of attrition, because when they learn each others moves, I doubt either of them would get hit by said moves for a while. In that case, I think Sans would most likely win, which is ironic because his stamina is terrible. Main reason why is because danmaku (even if it's not listed anymore). He would spam attacks and try to overwhelm her when he realizes that she is tiring out faster than he is, which wouldn't take long. Her will power would keep her going for an extended period of time, but in a battle of attrition, Ram is gonna get tired long before Sans, and her strength of will can only do so much, she has limits. Let's not forget Sans has teleportation as well.

Overall, I could switch my vote up easily depending on other arguments, but for now I'd go for Sans.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Hard to say. Sans can easily kill her via soul hax, and in-character he is not someone to mess around in a real fight, he goes for the win in the most effective way possible. Which is why he beat powerhouses like Frieza and Goku. But Ram could and most likely would dodge all of his initial attacks, and his main win-con is his first attack catching his opponent by surprise and killing them immediately. Meanwhile Ram has attacks that Sans literally can't see, but it's not out of reach to say he could even dodge those due to instinctive reactions, I mean he can literally dodge attacks while sleeping, so not being able to see an attack shouldn't be a problem.

Rams invisible attacks are not only layered by sight but also aura, hostility, sound and other ESP based abilities as other characters who could sense invisible things with their, well, other sense couldn't do the same to Ram's attacks. i think its worth mentioning but Ram is a skillgod who could keep up with Ley Batenkaitos who has atleast 10,000+ years of combat experience from an uncountable number of transcendent geniuses he ate. she also has AP and IA and could predict what sans is about to do before he even thinks about his actions.

Either Ram tags him with her blade early on, Sans kills her with his first attack, or it becomes a battle of attrition, because when they learn each others moves, I doubt either of them would get hit by said moves for a while. In that case, I think Sans would most likely win, which is ironic because his stamina is terrible. Main reason why is because danmaku (even if it's not listed anymore).

i did like to know why danmaku was removed-
anyways, Ram has experience dodging danmaku even against garfiel when she was massively outsped
and i mean like a major speed difference
also she can just jail sans and he will be sliced to death

He would spam attacks and try to overwhelm her when he realizes that she is tiring out faster than he is, which wouldn't take long. Her will power would keep her going for an extended period of time, but in a battle of attrition, Ram is gonna get tired long before Sans, and her strength of will can only do so much, she has limits. Let's not forget Sans has teleportation as well.

oh and also this isnt the version of Ram that tires out like in 10 mins, its implied she can go on fighting for a while however we dont have an exact timer on that

Overall, I could switch my vote up easily depending on other arguments, but for now I'd go for Sans.

understandable, due to the Ram's skill i am gonna go with her for now

 

[Zabazab]

Ram has the advantage of insane analytical prediction & a one-shot, while Sans has superior reactions & limited dura neg.

Ram likely will not be willing to allow an extended battle, she would be totally focused on killing Sans asap- just a few minutes of 5th Shackle was enough to make her sister Rem unable to stand for weeks, even if it had no effect on Ram herself. She might even choose to drop down to 4th Shackle after a bit which would basically make hitting Sans impossible due to speed diff.

If Sans hasn't reacted to invisible attacks like Ram's that even those who should be able to respond instinctually to invisible attacks couldn't react to, I don't see why he should be able to use his IR to dodge them.

I think Ram takes it at the moment, but I could be missing a huge thing for Sans, so I won't vote right now.

 

[VortechsTG]

Yeah, I am immediately voting Ram fra. I see no way that Sans could even come close to beating someone like her.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Meanwhile Ram has attacks that Sans literally can't see, but it's not out of reach to say he could even dodge those due to instinctive reactions, I mean he can literally dodge attacks while sleeping, so not being able to see an attack shouldn't be a problem.

Well, she also have a ability that basically make invisible blades stay in place, and she uses them to make a cage. Sans can telerport trought out, but he also need to know they are there.

Overall, I could switch my vote up easily depending on other arguments, but for now I'd go for Sans.

Ok

 

[Fezzih_007]

understandable, due to the Ram's skill i am gonna go with her for now

Ok

Yeah, I am immediately voting Ram fra. I see no way that Sans could even come close to beating someone like her.

Underestimating sans here, but okay.

 

[VortechsTG]

Underestimating sans here, but okay.

Sure, buddy.

 

[Zabazab]

i did like to know why danmaku was removed-
anyways, Ram has experience dodging danmaku even against garfiel when she was massively outsped
and i mean like a major speed difference
also she can just jail sans and he will be sliced to death

Ok this bugged me for some reason, but she did not dodge danmaku from Garf. Garf has no danmaku. He was massively faster than her yes, but she did not dodge danmaku in that moment.

But she does have the battle IQ to handle plenty of danmaku, yes.

 

[RinneItachi]

Rams invisible attacks are not only layered by sight but also aura, hostility, sound and other ESP based abilities as other characters who could sense invisible things with their, well, other sense couldn't do the same to Ram's attacks. i think its worth mentioning but Ram is a skillgod who could keep up with Ley Batenkaitos who has atleast 10,000+ years of combat experience from an uncountable number of transcendent geniuses he ate. she also has AP and IA and could predict what sans is about to do before he even thinks about his actions.

i did like to know why danmaku was removed-
anyways, Ram has experience dodging danmaku even against garfiel when she was massively outsped
and i mean like a major speed difference
also she can just jail sans and he will be sliced to death

oh and also this isnt the version of Ram that tires out like in 10 mins, its implied she can go on fighting for a while however we dont have an exact timer on that

understandable, due to the Ram's skill i am gonna go with her for now

Yeah I'm a big Re:Zero fan but also anime only so tbh my knowledge was limited to mostly the anime, the rest I could only know from her page on the wiki, but it seems that the page doesn't explain her abilities in detail. With this, I'd say Ram FRA. In fact it might just be a stomp. Sounds like base Ram would actually be more fair.

 

[RinneItachi]

If Sans hasn't reacted to invisible attacks like Ram's that even those who should be able to respond instinctually to invisible attacks couldn't react to, I don't see why he should be able to use his IR to dodge them.

If Sans can't see an attack, it might as well be invisible, so being able to dodge while literally unconscious should mean he can instinctively react to standard invisibility. But it sounds like her invis attacks are a lot more than just invisibility if they negate all senses in general. Invisibility means to not be viewed visually, that's it. Her invis attacks sound closer to outright perception manipulation according to SatellaTheWoe.

 

[Passersby]

sans....this name brings nostalgia, i love that goofy skeleton, one very important thing to note is that sans dodged every single attack from a regressor who has prior knowledge on where he will move how he will act and behave and literally everything about how he will fight and only managed to land a hit when said regressor broke the laws of the game he is in, he can also just use his telekinesis to move her around and impale her plus the mutliple gaster blasters he can use, he can also just pause time and abrubtly the attack he is using to another one, ram never really dealt with that kinda thing did she

anyways, for these reasons, sans is winning...for now

 

[ShionAH]

Sans was able to dodge an attack that he was not able to see hear or smell, while not even being awake. It having layered invisibility doesnt matter if your opponent doesnt even have to sense it. I am going with Incon since both seem to have good wincons

 

[RinneItachi]

sans....this name brings nostalgia, i love that goofy skeleton, one very important thing to note is that sans dodged every single attack from a regressor who has prior knowledge on where he will move how he will act and behave and literally everything about how he will fight and only managed to land a hit when said regressor broke the laws of the game he is in, he can also just use his telekinesis to move her around and impale her plus the mutliple gaster blasters he can use, he can also just pause time and abrubtly the attack he is using to another one, ram never really dealt with that kinda thing did she

anyways, for these reasons, sans is winning...for now

Genocide Frisk has the ability of learning, they don't have the ability to create ranged attacks that cannot be detected by any of the 5 senses and can be spammed. Sans' dodging capabilities are pretty crazy but not only does he not have an ability to counter this, he just straight-up hasn't dealt with anything like that before and wouldn't even guess that his opponent could have it, nor would he be able to detect the attack at all. At best, if I'm being generous, maybe he could make a guess when she does something that signifies an attack, but that's a big assumption of how he would react to just seeing her do something, without seeing the result of what she did. His telekinesis clearly can not be used in tandem with his bones, he can only summon bones immediately afterwards, and Ram shouldn't have a problem dodging it. Gaster Blaster's can be easily aim-dodged by a person far less skilled than herself, there is absolutely 0% chance she'd get hit by one, only chance Sans has are his bones. Time stop, even if applied (though it's only considered a "Likely"), can only allow Sans to position attacks and prepare for the next assault, if anything it would be LESS effective than his telekinesis combos, and Ram would easily avoid it.

ShionAH said:
Sans was able to dodge an attack that he was not able to see hear or smell, while not even being awake. It having layered invisibility doesnt matter if your opponent doesnt even have to sense it. I am going with Incon since both seem to have good wincons

Even characters with instinctive reaction comparable to Sans' can't react to it, apparently, so I don't see how he could in any way. Just having crazy instinctive reactions isn't gonna save him from an attack that sheer instinct can't help with.

If Sans can dodge any of her attacks though I'd vote for him. Ram is simply going to tire out much faster than he will, and if Sans CAN dodge her attacks, he's going to, and there isn't anything she could do about it.

Another thing that should be taken into account is the difference in how they use up stamina. In Ram's case, doing pretty much any action in combat besides basic dodging is gonna drain her and hurt her a lot. Sans has no problem using attacks but gets tired out very easily from dodging. Though that might be a game mechanics thing as Papyrus visibly gets exhausted from just attacking, and their source of power is the exact same, so it's more likely that Sans' energy reserves are just massive, but in a physical sense, due to his laziness, never training or exercising at all, his stamina is pretty pathetic. When it comes to physical movement, his stamina is worse than Ram's even, but he can spam attacks so much that, again, in a battle of attrition if it came down to it, he should more than make up for it. Ram can spam a fair amount, too, but not nearly as much, and only a select few of her magic attacks are going to have a snowball's chance in hell of touching him.

 

[Passersby]

Genocide Frisk has the ability of learning, they don't have the ability to create ranged attacks that cannot be detected by any of the 5 senses and can be spammed.

oh yeah, this again, altough sans doesn't have enough enhanced senses to sens ram's attack so i do agree

Sans' dodging capabilities are pretty crazy but not only does he not have an ability to counter this, he just straight-up hasn't dealt with anything like that before and wouldn't even guess that his opponent could have it, nor would he be able to detect the attack at all. At best, if I'm being generous, maybe he could make a guess when she does something that signifies an attack, but that's a big assumption of how he would react to just seeing her do something, without seeing the result of what she did.

however,sans can literally guess how many times you died with nothing to based that on, i am certain that will most likely know about the attack and just pause time then create an attack to hit her and do so multiple times

His telekinesis clearly can not be used in tandem with his bones, he can only summon bones immediately afterwards, and Ram shouldn't have a problem dodging it. Gaster Blaster's can be easily aim-dodged by a person far less skilled than herself, there is absolutely 0% chance she'd get hit by one, only chance Sans has are his bones

he can use a combo of bones and gaster blasters to corner her, he did that mutiple times if i remember correctly

. Time stop, even if applied (though it's only considered a "Likely"), can only allow Sans to position attacks and prepare for the next assault, if anything it would be LESS effective than his telekinesis combos, and Ram would easily avoid it.

and no way in hell, time stop is pretty damn effective, ram never dealt attacks spontaneously spawning and i find it very hard to imagine her dodging attacks used in tandem with time stop, she doesn't the battle intelligence feats and adaptibilty to do so


also stop spamming stuff, i'm prettu sure that's agaisnt wiki rules

 

[RinneItachi]

It really just comes down to if Sans can dodge the invis attack imo. I think Sans high-diff's if he can.

 

[Zabazab]

Julius can dodge invisible attacks on instinct. Elsa can both hit vitals and dodge a room-sized explosion while under the effect of Shamak, which cuts off one's senses.

Rai should be several levels above both of these characters in terms of senses/ESP, yet he didn't even notice Ram's magic before it cut him.

The issue was the presence of a blade here, which Batenkaitos did not remember placing behind.

Ley: “It can’t be…”

Avoiding the blade that had slightly cut his finger, Batenkaitos attempted to advance his feet further towards the interior―― his tiptoes were blown off, and he inclined backwards whilst shrieking with an “Ahii”.

And, with the inclining back of his head also being shaved off slightly, he rigidified his face and stood still.

――He was enclosed, by invisible blades.

Ley: “…Haha, seriously?”

He had shown it to her, merely once.

Once, in the midst of battle; being an invisible technique as well, so she must not have seen it either.

Moreover, she had not ever practically even stepped foot in this place. Yet regardless, she had seized his escape route, and had stationed invisible blades in advance.

 

[RinneItachi]

oh yeah, this again, altough sans doesn't have enough enhanced senses to sens ram's attack so i do agree


however,sans can literally guess how many times you died with nothing to based that on, i am certain that will most likely know about the attack and just pause time then create an attack to hit her and do so multiple times


he can use a combo of bones and gaster blasters to corner her, he did that mutiple times if i remember correctly


and no way in hell, time stop is pretty damn effective, ram never dealt attacks spontaneously spawning and i find it very hard to imagine her dodging attacks used in tandem with time stop, she doesn't the battle intelligence feats and adaptibilty to do so


also stop spamming stuff, i'm prettu sure that's agaisnt wiki rules

Guessing how many times someone can die from their expression doesn't mean he can guess that someone is going to use an attack that he can't see, feel, or hear coming at him very quickly, potentially from different directions. He canonically does not use time stop to avoid attacks at any point.

Then what?

Ram is inconceivably more skilled than Sans in combat, her entire character gimmick is that she is an obscenely talented prodigy in all manners of combat, but that, due to her sister, she lost her main source of power, making her incomparably weaker than she should be. Even in terms of prediction, analyzation, and sensory abilities, she matches if not surpasses Sans' himself. If his attacks manifested seemingly out of nowhere, she would be surprised, but react accordingly and determine what to do if it happens again. Hell, let me just paste her intelligence section notes.

"Genius (Being a member of the Oni tribe, the strongest demi-human race, Ram is naturally suited for combat. Ram was a prodigy as a child and has been called a genius. She is able to coordinate flawlessly with Emilia in combat due to her wonderful sense of combat. Stated to have a godlike level of skill[11], that impresses even Wilhelm, and she has never once lost[22] to Garfiel in a fist fight. Even when her mana which she used for physical enhancement ran dry, thus being no different physically than a 18 year old girl, she was able to evade countless attacks from Garfiel using her intuition and talent[22])"

I don't see why posting a few messages of varying topics is spam but okay I'll merge them and avoid it ig.

 

[Zabazab]

I should note too that Ram's Clairvoyance both allows her to share Sans' field of vision and predict his actions with greater ease than reading the mind directly.

So basically if he can sense her magic then he probably ironically wins via stamina, while if not then he just kinda gets dusted instantly.

 

[VortechsTG]

If Sans can dodge any of her attacks though I'd vote for him. Ram is simply going to tire out much faster than he will, and if Sans CAN dodge her attacks, he's going to, and there isn't anything she could do about it.

Once again, this is not the Ram we see in the anime who tires out after a few attacks. Granted, she hasn't fought for days or anything but she has fought pretty extended battles without any signs of weakening.

 

[Passersby]

Guessing how many times someone can die from their expression doesn't mean he can guess that someone is going to use an attack that he can't see, feel, or hear coming at him very quickly, potentially from different directions. He canonically does not use time stop to avoid attacks at any point.

and i kid you it definitely does, they're definitely on the same level i see no reason why he can't

and i feel you're underestimating sans's skill level here

sans dodged every single attack from a regressor who has prior knowledge on where he will move how he will act and behave and literally everything about how he will fight and only managed to land a hit when said regressor broke the laws of the game he is in

sans is also pretty smart

Genius (While Sans is lazy, he has shown incredible skill and proficiency in science and physics, with him presumably reads quantum physics books in his off-time.[6] Sans is so perceptive that he can perfectly deduce how many times Chara has died and tried again through Time Travel just by looking at their expression, and he can also guess if Chara has already killed him but has reset the timeline just to fight him again. Most notably, Sans seems to have knowledge on the SAVE System, running reports showing the activity of the multitude of timelines, with these reports perhaps even showing what will happen to the timelines by the end of the Genocide Route, that being total destruction.[note 1] Sans has a Workshop located in the basement of his house, which contains blueprints of unfamiliar handwriting or symbols which relate to a "strange machine", presumably referring to the broken machine covered up in the same room. It is unknown what the machine does or its purpose, but it shows the proficiency of Sans craftiness nonetheless



dude's info analysis is off the charts, he can definitely deduce/guess what ram's attack will be even if he can't sense it, given he can tell a player already killed him or not anf even the number of times the player died by his hands with no prior knoweldge on that, like ever


anyways, idk leading towards ram tbh but still not convinced

 

[RinneItachi]

and i kid you it definitely does, they're definitely on the same level i see no reason why he can't

and i feel you're underestimating sans's skill level here




sans is also pretty smart

Genius (While Sans is lazy, he has shown incredible skill and proficiency in science and physics, with him presumably reads quantum physics books in his off-time.[6] Sans is so perceptive that he can perfectly deduce how many times Chara has died and tried again through Time Travel just by looking at their expression, and he can also guess if Chara has already killed him but has reset the timeline just to fight him again. Most notably, Sans seems to have knowledge on the SAVE System, running reports showing the activity of the multitude of timelines, with these reports perhaps even showing what will happen to the timelines by the end of the Genocide Route, that being total destruction.[note 1] Sans has a Workshop located in the basement of his house, which contains blueprints of unfamiliar handwriting or symbols which relate to a "strange machine", presumably referring to the broken machine covered up in the same room. It is unknown what the machine does or its purpose, but it shows the proficiency of Sans craftiness nonetheless



dude's info analysis is off the charts, he can definitely deduce/guess what ram's attack will be even if he can't sense it, given he can tell a player already killed him or not anf even the number of times the player died by his hands with no prior knoweldge on that, like ever


anyways, idk leading towards ram tbh but still not convinced

Those are two completely different things with virtually no correlation to each other at all. He can't predict the future or read someone's mind or know what they're doing or anything. He can just made very accurate guesses about specific things with limited information, and in this case, it's a huge assumption to say that he can predict an opponent using a type of attack that he has never encountered before. He knows about time manipulation and the anomaly, he was going into the fight with knowledge of his opponent's abilities already in hand. Like, of all the hundreds-thousands of guesses he could make, assuming it's the exact, specific type of attack that Ram would be using would be unreasonably generous to Sans.

I'm not. Lol. I literally said that if Sans can dodge her attacks, he's going to, and he'll probably win if he can due to his skill and Ram's stamina issues. I'm actually rather an Undertale fanboy and tbh might be a bit biased towards Sans here I must admit.

 

[RinneItachi]

Once again, this is not the Ram we see in the anime who tires out after a few attacks. Granted, she hasn't fought for days or anything but she has fought pretty extended battles without any signs of weakening.

Canonically speaking, Sans should be able to fight for at least 10 minutes on average, ignoring the time it takes for him to talk. And it's worth mentioning that Sans could still keep dodging even after the fight, the reason he got tagged was because of rule-breaking on Chara's part, but otherwise he was still able to keep going a bit longer. Base Ram's limits are roughly up to 10 minutes at max according to the page, and should be even lower when she's using her full strength, I would imagine. But I would need more details because I know very little about this version of Ram.

 

[Fezzih_007]

i think its worth mentioning but Ram is a skillgod who could keep up with Ley Batenkaitos who has atleast 10,000+

Thas't overestimation+Is not on the profile listed 10,000, is just lifetimes+Ratio

she also has AP and IA and could predict what sans is about to do before he even thinks about his actions.

Frisk can also do the same, and he as still negging them could be a skill issue on Frisk part, but meh

anyways, Ram has experience dodging danmaku even against garfiel when she was massively outsped

Garfiel never used Danmaku on her

and i mean like a major speed difference

180x speed diference is the accepted number.
We ask three times if it was okay, and they give the greenlight, so gasterblaster not gonna be super effective, agree

also she can just jail sans and he will be sliced to death

Sans can teleport, but yeah.

oh and also this isnt the version of Ram that tires out like in 10 mins, its implied she can go on fighting for a while however we dont have an exact timer on that

Because of how much using the 5 shackles tires Rem, she would't use for long because that would kill her.

Yeah I'm a big Re:Zero fan but also anime only so tbh my knowledge was limited to mostly the anime, the rest I could only know from her page on the wiki, but it seems that the page doesn't explain her abilities in detail. With this, I'd say Ram FRA. In fact it might just be a stomp. Sounds like base Ram would actually be more fair.

Not really, Ram still have all her wincons regardless of tier.

Julius can dodge invisible attacks on instinct. Elsa can both hit vitals and dodge a room-sized explosion while under the effect of Shamak, which cuts off one's senses.

Rai should be several levels above both of these characters in terms of senses/ESP, yet he didn't even notice Ram's magic before it cut him.

Unfortunelly, we have to make a CRT to make this Ram ability layered.
Because is baseline right now, so sans can sense.
I not even sure about this argument, because Ley just take a beating before that, and was super tired, if he din't sense the attack, is not as much Ram invisible blades are layered, and more because Ley din't noticed because he was tired.

the mutliple gaster blasters he can use

Is gonna be pretty useless, since Ram can dodge attacks faster than her, speedblitz worth.

he can also just pause time and abrubtly the attack he is using to another one,

Sans can just set up attacks, not attack while time is stopped.
If you mean the former, ok.

ram never really dealt with that kinda thing did she

nope


I gonna vote Ram, i ran this battle on my head before doing this thread, and i pretty much reach the same conclusion.

Base Ram's limits are roughly up to 10 minutes at max according to the page, and should be even lower when she's using her full strength, I would imagine. But I would need more details because I know very little about this version of Ram.

Well, Ram using her sister in coma, is able to transfer her pain to Rem, so she can fight longer.
But because doing so hurts Rem pretty badly, she most likely not gonna do it for long, because the risk of killing her sister.

 

[Fezzih_007]

I put the votes later.

 

[RinneItachi]

Not really, Ram still have all her wincons regardless of tier.

Well, Ram using her sister in coma, is able to transfer her pain to Rem, so she can fight longer.
But because doing so hurts Rem pretty badly, she most likely not gonna do it for long, because the risk of killing her sister.

Outdated.

Any specific time frames in mind? If she can only last like a couple minutes or something I can't see her beating Sans unless her invis attacks work.

 

[Phoenks]

Okay what is going on with these Sans' arguments.

Sans can not sense layered invisibility. None of Sans feats relate to avoiding invisible attacks. Dodging visible attacks can not be compared no matter how good you think that skill is.

Sans can not instinctively react here because his body still has to actually know what he is supposed to be dodging. He won't be able to dodge something that is completely outside of his realm of detection.

Ram can dodge attacks over a hundred times faster than her so without telekinesis Sans can not even hit her.

dude's info analysis is off the charts, he can definitely deduce/guess what ram's attack will be even if he can't sense it, given he can tell a player already killed him or not anf even the number of times the player died by his hands with no prior knoweldge on that, like ever

COMPLETELY unrelated to what is being discussed.

There is no evidence for your claim.

Sans being smart has nothing to do with combat skill and sensory perception.

Voting Ram.

 

[VortechsTG]

Canonically speaking, Sans should be able to fight for at least 10 minutes on average, ignoring the time it takes for him to talk. And it's worth mentioning that Sans could still keep dodging even after the fight, the reason he got tagged was because of rule-breaking on Chara's part, but otherwise he was still able to keep going a bit longer. Base Ram's limits are roughly up to 10 minutes at max according to the page, and should be even lower when she's using her full strength, I would imagine. But I would need more details because I know very little about this version of Ram.

Woah woah woah. So base Ram's stamina is almost as great as his? My guy this Ram's stamina is a hundred fold. She used power that had previously completely drained her in a few paragraphs for multiple chapters with no noteworthy strain then used far greater power still for just as long.

 

[RinneItachi]

Okay what is going on with these Sans' arguments.

Sans can not sense layered invisibility. None of Sans feats relate to avoiding invisible attacks. Dodging visible attacks can not be compared no matter how good you think that skill is.

Sans can not instinctively react here because his body still has to actually know what he is supposed to be dodging. He won't be able to dodge something that is completely outside of his realm of detection.

Ram can dodge attacks over a hundred times faster than her so without telekinesis Sans can not even hit her.



COMPLETELY unrelated to what is being discussed.

There is no evidence for your claim.

Sans being smart has nothing to do with combat skill and sensory perception.

Voting Ram.

Yeah about what I was thinking at the start. Though again, I think Sans should be able to react to standard invisibility. Just not invis on this level at all, not even close actually.

 

[RinneItachi]

Woah woah woah. So base Ram's stamina is almost as great as his? My guy this Ram's stamina is a hundred fold. She used power that had previously completely drained her in a few paragraphs for multiple chapters with no noteworthy strain then used far greater power still for just as long.

This why I was asking for the details. If Ram even out stams him then it's not even close and I'd call it a stomp.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Outdated.

Any specific time frames in mind? If she can only last like a couple minutes or something I can't see her beating Sans unless her invis attacks work.

Is hard to say because is a novel, so timeframe is almost impossible to tell, but logically, it should just be a few minutes.

 

[Passersby]

yeah, i'm tired so voting incon because of time pause

 

[Zabazab]

I not even sure about this argument, because Ley just take a beating before that, and was super tired, if he din't sense the attack, is not as much Ram invisible blades are layered, and more because Ley din't noticed because he was tired.

3rd Shackle Ram didn't sense Rai's invisible attack either, so I don't think this works.

 

[RinneItachi]

I'll switch my vote to incon actually. For now.

 

[VortechsTG]

Still voting Ram. I don't believe time stop is that useful against someone as skilled as Ram, especially not when she has any ability that lets her read someone as skilled as Ley easier than reading his mind. Wilhelm, who is far below Ley, could predict and fight off an unsensable danmaku just by reading the user's gaze and how the air hung around him. Emilia's skill is literally fodder and even she could predict teleportation. Sans can't hit her or detect her attacks. This is a stomp imo.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Still voting Ram. I don't believe time stop is that useful against someone as skilled as Ram, especially not when she has any ability that lets her read someone as skilled as Ley easier than reading his mind. Wilhelm, who is far below Ley, could predict and fight off an unsensable danmaku just by reading the user's gaze and how the air hung around him. Emilia's skill is literally fodder and even she could predict teleportation. Sans can't hit her or detect her attacks. This is a stomp imo.

wait Emilia did what

 

[Fezzih_007]

Sans can't hit her

He can.

or detect her attacks.

He can too.

This is a stomp imo.

Is not, because Sans still have wincons he can achive.
Is a inco actually.

 

[Phoenks]

He can.

Only with TK. Not skilled enough to hit her.

He can too.

He can't see them.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Only with TK. Not skilled enough to hit her.

Yeah, he can hit her with TK,GM and Teleport, without that is harder for him to hit her, that's what i mean. He can hit her by doing that.

He can't see them.

True, he can't see them.

 

[Dragonite007]

Incon FRA