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Raimi Spiderman Revision
- Thread starter M3X_2.0
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- #82
Sorry but I don't get the question, I mean, it's only the energy to vaporize X people, we have energy to vaporize one, then multiply by the amount of people. I think that's... obvious? If you still don't understand, please elaborate on your doubt so I can answer you.
I was going to answer a bunch of comments but I saw the changes are going to be made, good.
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How I'm reading it is inverse square law. Basically it wouldn't be Result * 6 but surface area of effected area multiplied against the surface area of a human.
Or if a human is 2 m^2 and a explosion incinerated people from 10 meters away, that means it was outputting 300 megajoules of energy over a surface area of 314.16 m^2
Though considering there was no explosion and for all we know it could damage them in same strange way, I wouldn't recommend using that method here.
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Spino tried Inverse-square law, that gave really wanked results, 8-B, 39.83 tons of TNT.
Even if you assume only one value (0.058137456 tons of TNT) for charring... (Spino already figured out the distance between the bomb and the people, all that's left to do is swap his 6 people vaping value with one people vaping value)
0.058137456 * 2* (4 * pi * (1.9347)^2)= 5.46919170992 tons of TNT (High 8-C)
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- #85
Oh well then reading the comments would actually asnwer this question.
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I'll check the novelization of the movie and see if it mentions anything actually.
In hindsight probably should've done that first ngl.
In hindsight probably should've done that first ngl.
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I'd say the Venom vaporization feat is an outlier, not due to yield but due to context. Venom, even just the symbiote on its lonesome, directly scales to Spider-Man, who's taken Goblin Bombs to the face and was able to woop Goblin Jr in a straight fight, who also face tanked a full-power Goblin Bomb. Sure, Trash on his own being vaporized is consistent, but a Goblin Bomb vaporizing a character that directly scales to people who consistently survive them? Not so much.
Meanwhile, the skeletons feat is the defining feat for the Pumpkin Bombs, and isn't really contradicted anywhere afaik. Let's just use that. 8-C Raimi-Man all the way
Meanwhile, the skeletons feat is the defining feat for the Pumpkin Bombs, and isn't really contradicted anywhere afaik. Let's just use that. 8-C Raimi-Man all the way
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it isnt an outlier, venom is just weak to heat
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Might not even matter, the Venom shit is DEFINITELY 8-C, even taking a bunch of conservative estimations, straight up halving the volume to be super safe due to how hollow he is, and using tar, which has a specific heat of 0.407 (quite a bit less than water's 4.184, it gets 8-C.
Of course I have to actually get it to a point it's actually sufficient and not just me half assing it with safe numbers as to not overshoot, but shit is 8-C at minimum.
Of course I have to actually get it to a point it's actually sufficient and not just me half assing it with safe numbers as to not overshoot, but shit is 8-C at minimum.
Technically speaking, Venom and Eddie weren't together in that instance, it was technically a hostless venom and just a average dude, if that matters at all.
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The Venom symbiote on its own doesn't have any concrete feats of surviving being actually punched by any of the other guys. So that point is moot. The symbiote only ever grows that strong by bonding to a host as shown in the movie, it's not like in the comics where the symbiote itself can easily dominate Spider-Man even without a host.
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I was under the impression the Symbiote was a lot weaker without a host, thus explaining why Curt Conners could contain it under normal glass.
Also what @sanicspood said
Also what @sanicspood said
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Hmm. Actually I was likely jumped the gun. Here's the novel version of the scene.
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Bruh, so the bomb's effects not only irradiated the folk, it even caused the balcony to tear itself apart. Wow.
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Nah, it was already torn apart by the first Pumpkin Bomb. The second one just made it worse.
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Still means it can cause destruction to some degree (Like concussive blasts it caused that made the balcony separate further like the novel says). Maybe those bombs have different exploding modes I reckon. Same yield, but different methods of letting it all out.
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Source for the tar value? I find values of 1.85 on google. Also what mass value did you use for the symbiote?
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It directly contended with Spider-Man's physical strength, including explosive ripping motions which would correlate to striking strength, when it tried to resist his attempt to get rid of it. It held it's own against him for a pretty good amount of time even while he was weakening it with sound
Ultimately though this point is kinda moot cuz I'm on Team 8-C and Pumpkin Bombs have better showings that also have zero hiccups in regards to the scaling chain, just wanted to explain my view a bit more
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But at that time it was already fully bonded to Spider-Man, it wasn't wholly separate like in Eddie's case. Even when Eddie jumped in to re-merge, it wasn't fully bonded. Refer to what Curt Connors' said, once it binds, it can become hard to unbind.
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Well anyways the bomb uses radiation to kill people, rather than explosive force. So yeah, they were indeed completely different bombs from each other.
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- #101
Isn't that quite obvious? I mean, they are different during the explosion, one doesn't explode, the other does, it doesn't indicate a difference in potency though.
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I was more or less confused because in theory the explosion wouldn't have to be any stronger than the 9-A required to vaporize one person, it's just that six people were subjected to it at the same time, it's not as if the yield is increased or decreased based on how many people are present, just that enough people were in the vicinity of what in theory only has to be 9-A to achieve the results desired.
I actually think that's a little different, but to each their own.
I personally think my problem is just with the factor being people in an explosive.
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I'm not convinced.
If anything this just tells me the bomb's method of explosion was changed and yet it gave of concussive blasts, which indicates the bomb having separate modes to focus its power onto certain targets, or to let everything out like conventional bombs. I wouldn't doubt it being possible, given how versatile Goblin can be with his equipment.
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In any case, it would prolly be an inverse-square law issue, but as I said in the other above comments, assuming the distance between the bomb and the people, reverse-inverse-squaring to get the yield gets really high results.
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How the hell did you get a mass value that high. I'd go with 99% hollowness bare minimum.
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- #107
Gotcha, thoug I still think the correct method is multiplying the value. The calc to vaporize one person has one value for every single property, like weight, water %, body fat, etc etc. Only one value, then one person.
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The novel word for word said it was a different bomb. So it is different.
I think that means that it uses both X-Ray/Radiation and still gives off concussive force. Its special in that way.
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When it comes to SFX, everything back in those days (the era of Star Wars prequels style of effects) was likely made by hand. They didn't use an iMovie filter or stock effect to accomplish the look of something. If they changed the way the effect looked, it was typically intentional. Raimi has an eye for that in his films like other directors such as Lucas did. Not everything needs to be explicit in verse to conjure that reasoning, it isn't absurd to fall to that conclusion. Lazy moment in the effect budget? Perhaps, but without a BTS clip, or writer/director statement, you have nothing other than that to go on.
Also there is in universe precedent for the bombs being different. Harry found his dad's gear after it was laying around for years, and all that tech was experimental and bleeding edge. It's likely Norman made it to finish Spider-Man (and his other goals) rapidly. It's not like bullets or ramen where it doesn't "expire" after sitting on the shelf forever. Maybe the reason the effect was green and is no longer so is because some experimental military thing (which Oscorp in this verse is known for) is an inactive ingredient.
Yes, this sounds very Film Theory right now, but again, this director wrote all same 3 films and saw each scene himself before putting it to screens. Again, in a few years time. It's not like he'd forget so soon. It's likely he saw the lack of green and said "yeah, there's a reason for it to look like this, but I'm not gonna baby the nerds in the audience and detract from the film to make it clear."
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The novel says...
"Suddenly the bomb exploded, but not like the other one had."
This doesn't outright admit the bomb to be a different bomb like "But this bomb was different".
Or, again, Goblin could've selected a different explosive mode for the bomb.
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I checked the Spider-Man 3 novel and the end scene is different. With Venom killing Eddie and using his skeleton as a puppet-thing, so we can't use that for a result for that:
If that's the case then they still wouldn't scale to it, since it uses a different means of attacking people.
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Unfortunately this part contradicts with the movie heavily.
True, the movie was supposed to have it work out like this, but ultimately it turned into a deleted scene.
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It possible Harry wouldn't know about that too, but without statements from the director, actor, book, etc, we're getting into Film Theory levels of speculation.
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It definitely ain't 99% hollow imo, I'd say 50% is more fair, he definitely still has bulk and is quite cohesive center mass and we even get a shot inside him from the POV and he's pretty put together (The outer parts obviously not included, they're almost entirely hollow yeah, but I haven't even began to factor that in anyway) that was also me scaling Venom at his thinnest point. I guess tar might just be comparatively heavy? Atop of Venom's pretty massive size (easily over 3m tall, as well as about Eddy's height in width, give or take). Guess it just comes out decently high?
Ok but, we aren't talking about the novel version, we're talking about the movie version.
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Not sure how that would change the yield of the bomb tho.
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Just inverse-square law the symbiote via comparing how much bigger it is than Eddie then?
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It means the bomb would have two yields. One for the normal fire explosion and one for the radiation explosion.
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- #118
can we just get the Venom feat calced properly so we can finish this? Like, I get that the bomb is different via novelization (tho still don't belive it, but we don't always get what we want) and still, the visual effects aren't still a reason to say they have different potency.
Mf has tons of Tier 8 weapons and nitpicking the lowest possible to scale to Spiderman while they fought to death is honestly bullshit.
Mf has tons of Tier 8 weapons and nitpicking the lowest possible to scale to Spiderman while they fought to death is honestly bullshit.
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I doubt it's using different yields of explosives for both modes.
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