| Character | Key | Attack Potency | Votes |
| Cinner | Supreme Duelist, Pure Form | 27.74 Megatons of TNT | 0 |
| Ako (Cosmic Knight) | Parasite King Arc, Tactical Transformation | 60 Megatons of TNT | 4 |
| 0 |
I’m assuming their lifting strength is similar, so I’m thinking that even though Tremor has higher LS than any of Ako’s other forms, he will still be pushed back, at least slightly. Ako would continue to use Tremor and use his size and AP advantage for as long as Cinner remains close to him.
Ako would most likely just use plasma blasts from his fingertip cannons and vaporize the road chunk. He would shoot them at Cinner as well, in addition to fire blasts, but I think Cinner resists those. The plasma blasts should do damage though
Ako having his projectiles deflected is something he wouldn’t expect, and seeing Cinner approach fast, he will make the move and change again, this time to Blitz. Now, with four arms (two of them have cannons for hands) and even more speed than with Gale and being his normal size again (much smaller target than what Cinner was just prepared for), Ako can spin out if the way from the downward strike and counter with a combination of his Lightning Claws and top 2 cannons, hitting Cinner with a full body electric waves/spheres and attempting to slice clean through him or Lifeline during that with his claws.
I'm skimming until I see FRAs (I'm lazy)
Same Here
Cinner should be able to shake off the electric balls with his resistance and it’s unlikely Lifeline will easily get ran through considering its durability scales above Cinner and the AP gap already isn’t that large. The air is really Cinner’s territory, he’d be able to hang with levitation or descend quickly to dodge an attack. If Ako gives him the chance, Cinner could do an extended spin once Ako is in his face or grab him and throw him into a building and try to follow up with a Shield Piercer.
I see, but Ako did preemptively get away using his cannons, allowing him a chance to assess the situation (something he’s an expert of). Seeing as Cinner resisted electric and fire, Ako has a clear course of action next
Not exactly, Ako can use True Faith, which is a jet mode, and provides access to the following abilities
Ako has fought many different monsters of all sizes, and due to being away from Cinner he shouldn’t be hit away into the building. Ako has also fought faster people (Vacteria) and against a group of 7-B enemies (triple Parasite Kings), so Ako should not be underestimated at all. A weakness of Cinner is not taking fights seriously for a while, so I think Ako can get the drop on him
I think the debate is still going on. Probably shouldn't vote for now, unless I'm wrong.
aight
I feel like Cinner wouldn’t let the chance slip to catch Ako before those first couple claw swipes finish. Like I said, if Ako tries engaging in melee he’s opening himself up to potentially be finished off with a throw and Shield Piercer combo.
Cinner would try to deflect the rockets and upon seeing they can’t be sent away just send them into a building. If the Supreme ones get used, that could be a problem but I don’t think they would necessarily take him out the fight. Black Hole rockets depend on Cinner not just resisting with LS, so that would need to be cleared up because if they’re within the range of 10^9 or 10^10 KG, Cinner is tens of times stronger than their pull. Flaming attacks won’t work with Cinner being able to easily take 15000 degrees Fahrenheit. The shield is valid but that can only last so long. Invisibility wouldn’t help Ako unless it can hide all movements, Cinner can detect air vibrations.
Ako seems skilled but like you said he’s fought monsters of all sizes, Cinner could very well get a hold on him since he’s more a monster fighter than human. Also, I guess it’s not conveyed well enough, but Cinner’s initial weakness of not being serious is dropped by the time he gets Pure Form. Besides character development, it’s a state of enhanced focus where he’s making judgements without much room to banter or express joy. He’s entirely locked in.
Ako could also potentially bait Cinner into this move in order to trap him with ‘Check’ as soon as Cinner knocks him away, which would impale him almost as fast as Ako can transform… even if not, he has a way to defend himself.
Ako’s heat lasers are not exactly lasers in the traditional sense, they’re more like laser-swords, able to be curved and blast opponents while also impaling them. Cinner may not take damage from the heat of the lasers, but he will still he impaled, which is another way Ako can win
I mean, Ako’s specialty is fighting monsters, so it’s not likely that Cinner has anything inhuman about his fighting style which Ako hasn’t seen or heard about before, and he usually has plans for any type of Monster he may meet on a given day. He also has all the data of Drive Knight installed into him, as well as data from Neptune experiments which consist of countless different Monster types. Odds are that one or more are similar enough to Cinner for Ako to have an advantage even before they began fighting
Cinner won’t be able to approach properly because Ako has his Scanners (Cinner won’t be able to surprise attack him), and even if he does attack from behind, he has his tail in addition to Back Blades, which will fly out to stab him if he manages to bypass the tail somehow (the blades can also spin to deflect lifeline and slice him to ribbons). His tail and lance can also attack with freezing beams, and he can make the place all around much colder in general. Freezing rays have good range, and he can shoot them from his hands, hips, lance, chest, tail, and back (but not all at once)
I’d argue ESP would let Cinner know Ako is trying to throw something out and let him dodge or power through it. Even if Check lands, Cinner could break out with LS or just overpower it, taking impalement and electrocution isn’t new to him so he won’t let it stop him from continuing his attack. Cinner has also sort of taken impalement from lasers, being shot by Kernel’s rifle which fired lasers that could scorch holes in a target. His skin was able to mitigate the effect thanks to that heat resistance, so effectiveness on that could depend.
I’m unsure any data on monsters really matches up perfectly to Cinner considering his style is unique to him and his weapon of choice. Even then, knowing what your opponent can do doesn’t prepare you to defend against it. Sasuke could see Lee’s moves but not respond for example. I don’t see why we’re talking about Cinner attacking from behind either.
Flood’s anesthetic is a good option, but Cinner can fight for a period while unconscious. Assuming he doesn’t get waken up by any sort of attack, Cinner is basically bloodlusted going for anything he can to win until he collapses. Acid would have to be heavy to dissuade him. It seems like Ako has sufficient options to win, but we have to assume he lands on them while not getting caught by Cinner or using anything disadvantageous like Blast which is practically useless or True Faith which is a mixed bag.
Worth pointing out that Ako fought against Vacteria who’s ESP is more like precog than not. She seems to have far more advanced extrasensory than Cinner does, and Ako can still hold his own through sheer skill and analysis with her. Albeit she wasn’t really in a ‘killing mood’ so to speak, he was still able to frustrate her with how well he did.
The big problem with this is that Check has many massive spikes and is large enough to basically turn him to mincemeat the same second Check is used at all. It’s a killing trap, the electric afterwards is more used to clean the mechanism off some than harm the enemy further, since they are already dead. To survive, Cinner needs at least High-Mid regen, which he doesn’t have (he caps out at High-Low, not even close to enough). If check lands, the battle ends.
The lasers impale the target all the way through and remain active for a few moments after, holding them in the air while further lasers do their job as well. Could Cinner counter this? What if the lasers aim for vitals only? The heat damage really seems more like a bonus effect rather than anything meaningful, but it’s also able to hurt monsters normally resistant to extreme heat so that’s worth something I think
Cinner is definitely a unique case, but Ako should have enough combined data to be able to make plans quick. Even without data Ako excels at making plans on the fly. I was also just pointing out that Ako has a myriad of ways to stop a back-attack, especially in Frost.
Ako himself is similar, being able to fight off armies of weaker Monsters even with minimal experience as a Cyborg, but in this key he fought multiple Parasite Kings at once including all of their summoned minions. The parasites were unpredictable and strange, also being able to take over/slow his body with eggs, but he still was able to plan and beat them in real time. Even despite this, Cinner still has experience advantage, but it’s not like Ako is some novice.
Even Cinner’s powerful heat will actually result in his loss, because Ako’s Gale is able to absorb heat and fire energy/power/attacks and covert it to much more energy, putting all of his stats and stamina into overdrive. Ako will be able to swap through all of his forms nearly instantly and obliterate lifeline and Cinner if he attacks Gale with heat attacks like that. Ako should know by now that Cinner uses strong heat, so a combination of Bubble and Gale will give him a much better chance. Even if he didn’t know, the second he feels it, he will alternate to his Bubble/Gale strategy.
Approaching Ako in a direct way like that is a clear opening for Check, Frost, Gale, or Tremor or a combination of them all to finish the battle. Metal Whirlwind can’t block Check because it flies in from horizontal angles. Cinner defending his front, back, or top with the spin leaves him open for the other half of Check which would win the fight right away via extreme impairment. But also, Cinner wouldn’t be able to fight him so close anyway, since every time Ako switches, his parts explode out for a very brief moment, basically being like a little and instant nuke every time he changes. Not only would he be exploded, but most likely shredded to a bunch of pieces by the sharp flying metal parts.
Vacteria could hardly break them even with 60 megaton attacks, so Cinner would have an especially difficult time. The shield grenades will allow Ako to tank Cinner’s attacks very, very well, and basically opens up everything for him since he can abuse them to approach. He can make walls around him by firing the grenades in specific ways and activating them all at once, either blocks Cinner out from him or making a grand protection. He can also launch the shields like holders towards Cinner.
Only for up to 25 seconds, easy enough for Ako to camp him out in Bubble until he just falls down. Using Cosmic Bubble should be enough, assuming Cinner is suddenly able to break through the grenades easier due to bloodlust.
The acid is powerful, strong enough to threaten Dragon Level Monsters, but if it doesn’t work on Cinner himself Ako can target lifeline with it instead. Based on the course of battle and how his opponent fights, Ako will know not to use Blast at all.
Doing constant swapping between Gale and Bubble basically invalids most of Cinner’s ability to win. Check would also instantly kill Cinner on contact, and Ako has experience fighting someone with much better ESP and doing very well, so he should find a way to land Check sooner rather than later. If Cinner tries to win through incap via LS, Ako has multiple ways to get rid of him (Bubble is also very good for keeping him away before it even comes to that, and the big if of whether or not Cinner can even live against Ako transforming right in his face). It’s unwise for Cinner to get so close to Ako, but he doesn’t seem to have a way to win without being close (you did say yourself that Cinner waits to be able to charge in) yet Ako has multiple wincons regardless of what Cinner does, and stamina won’t be an issue because there are lots of sources around for Ako to replenish with. For the moment, I will vote for Ako.
Cinner’s ESP is also a level of precog, so while that is impressive it isn’t necessarily a detriment to Cinner.
If Check is as large as you make it out to be, an extension could diffuse it, it’d be a bit inconvenient but I highly doubt that’ll end the fight. Dealing with lasers is something Cinner is built for with acrobatics and non phys plus he should be somewhat able to prevent the cutting effects with his resistance. If they go for vitals, he can bend his spine to shift that around and get out the way or just change the area it hits.
Ako being able to think on the fly isn’t innate to him either, Cinner is used to taking people who swap weapons or use two at the same time. He’s pretty intuitive too, he could potentially play around Ako making him overload himself with transformations and need a recharge in which he loses. Ako isn’t an amateur like you said, but Cinner is on a level beyond many other fighters, he can deal with melee and long range fine from a myriad of opponents. Taking on minions and the queen seems like it gets Ako close, but there still should be some gap there.
The heat absorption is a fair win con, but if Cinner catches on that it’s being absorbed which could very well happen, he can shut that down quickly. His aura emission and raising temperature on extension is a choice even if Aura usually comes out just as a byproduct without Cinner noticing. Bubble is very defense oriented, so I don’t see how it really helps Ako aside from maybe tiring Cinner out. Even then, an extension could just start close to the shield and keep going counting as multiple attacks to break through.
I feel extension could deal with shields whether they be on Ako or sent at him for reasons mentioned above. And like you said, sleep bloodlust could give Cinner enough adrenaline to accomplish that easier and really leave Ako defenseless. If Ako goes for acid on Lifeline, Organic acids are flammable meaning an extension can work to get rid of it, assuming it comes to that.
Ako does take stamina if Cinner lets him absorb from the environment so that’s a point. Ako has his win cons but so does Cinner with his physicality and strategic mind combined with insane levels of willpower.
Ako can win via freezing, possibly check which kills Cinner on contact, and overwhelming Cinner with transformations and analysis. Cinner has resistances, moves, and his own skill/experience to counteract that and fight back until Ako is overwhelmed and beaten with LS or a combo with Lightning Breaker or Shield Piercer. I’ve laid it out like this, I think it’s mostly accurate.
Not Including Depends I See More Win-cons For Cinner
So it's 6 (Ako) vs 8 (Cinner)
So far Im leaning toward Cinner as well, maybe Vene will add other strengths to Ako once he replies
Ako’s feat is still better, since Vacteria has better extrasensory and a way more varied attack pattern (claws, wand, spikes, summons) on top of it, and Ako could still defend, and didn’t even necessarily need bubble grenade spam, since he fought with his other forms mostly. All Cinner has is lifeline, and although he’s very skilled and smart, it’s an easy method of attacking thwt Ako is more than able to counter
Either side of Check landing will easily overwhelm High-Low regen, but with an extension, he could defend it I guess. But the force of Check crunching steel spikes into lifeline could damage it, maybe bending it into a weird shape.
Ako isn’t gonna just fight blindly while Cinner tries to take his stamina, Ako knows his own weaknesses very well. He can use Bubble and continuously go to siphon energy. Eventually, he should find powerlines to give himself an excess, giving him a further boost at attack, speed, and defense.
Ok so plugging that into a calculator, Cinner is around 8.5x Ako LS wise, enough to completely overwhelm on a grabIt’s time to finally clarify Ako’s LS, it should be around 1.6159e+10 kg because of Ako and most of the other S Class scaling to Metal Knights LS in this calc (which took way too long to find
I still don't see Cinner with any way to reliably approach Ako, given that he can still just use Check again and his transformation causes damage on its own. Bubble's shields also block Cinner off, since it takes many attacks to break one Shield Grenade Barrier, and there will be a couple hundred inn play at any given time
For speed, Ako has multiple forms that are faster, including Blitz which is much faster. If Cinner gets close, Ako can use Blitz and catch Cinner before chopping him on a switch to Gale.
