Questions regarding tier 2

[FluffyCreatureZ]

The reason why multipliers don't work in tier 2 is because the distances between universes is unquantifiable. This is what I don't understand. Low multiversal involves the amount of universes destroyed and doesn't factor the distance between them, so if you can already destroy 1 universe then multiplying that power by 2 and you should be able to destroy the equivalent of 2 without the distance between them.
Question 1: Why is the distance between universes a factor in the tiering but it's not a requirement in the definition of tier 2?

Question 2: If the unquantifiable distance between 2 universes is breached and a character is low multiverse level, why don't multipliers work now? The distance is factored in and multiplication of that power would include the distance as well.

Question 3: If the unquantifiable distance between universes becomes quantifiable in a verse, can it be upgraded higher into tier 2 using multipliers?

 

[ActuallySpaceMan42]

Good questions I want to know as well. Multipliers have always been weird on the wiki for these reasons.

 

[Planck69]

The reason why multipliers don't work in tier 2 is because the distances between universes is unquantifiable. This is what I don't understand. Low multiversal involves the amount of universes destroyed and doesn't factor the distance between them, so if you can already destroy 1 universe then multiplying that power by 2 and you should be able to destroy the equivalent of 2 without the distance between them.

Uh no. This is like saying because Star level doesn't involve any notion of distance then Solar System or Multi-Solar System level would just be multiplying its value by 2 and above. Destroying multiple universes in a single attack indeed involves the distance being crossed by that attack or that ability.

Question 1: Why is the distance between universes a factor in the tiering but it's not a requirement in the definition of tier 2?

See above. If it's not mentioned then that's honestly more an issue with the page.

Question 2: If the unquantifiable distance between 2 universes is breached and a character is low multiverse level, why don't multipliers work now? The distance is factored in and multiplication of that power would include the distance as well.

The distance isn't provably consistent. The next universe over could be TREE 3 times further. Or half as far. And saying that we should assume they have the same distance is as disingenuous as saying we should assume galaxies or stars are equidistant.

Question 3: If the unquantifiable distance between universes becomes quantifiable in a verse, can it be upgraded higher into tier 2 using multipliers?

Erm, I guess? I doubt any setting goes into depth enough that multipliers would be viable.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Uh no. This is like saying because Star level doesn't involve any notion of distance then Solar System or Multi-Solar System level would just be multiplying its value by 2 and above. Destroying multiple universes in a single attack indeed involves the distance being crossed by that attack or that ability.
See above. If it's not mentioned then that's honestly more an issue with the page

Then that has to be at least mentioned in the page, that it isn't simply the 2 universes but also the distance between them. However what confuses me is that we consider 2 characters who can destroy 2 universes just as strong as each other even though the distance between their universes could be wildly different.

The distance isn't provably consistent. The next universe over could be TREE 3 times further. Or half as far. And saying that we should assume they have the same distance is as disingenuous as saying we should assume galaxies or stars are equidistant.

As expected. I see.

Erm, I guess? I doubt any setting goes into depth enough that multipliers would be viable.

If the universes are visually portrayed right next to each other, would that make multipliers usable?

 

[Planck69]

Then that has to be at least mentioned in the page, that it isn't simply the 2 universes but also the distance between them. However what confuses me is that we consider 2 characters who can destroy 2 universes just as strong as each other even though the distance between their universes could be wildly different.

It's generally just working under the assumption that whatever unknown distance between a set number of universes is common between settings. Really, this is just Tier 2 being really hard to work with.

If the universes are visually portrayed right next to each other, would that make multipliers usable?

Of course it's about Dragon Ball....

Anyway, maybe? Not sure about the exact nuances there nor do I plan to get into them.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

It's generally just working under the assumption that whatever unknown distance between a set number of universes is common between settings. Really, this is just Tier 2 being really hard to work with.

Of course it's about Dragon Ball....

Anyway, maybe? Not sure about the exact nuances there nor do I plan to get into them.

Yeah it's about dragon ball. Thanks.

 

[DontTalkDT]

If the universes would lie in 3D space besides each other destroying them would by our standards not even grant multiverse level.
If the universes are in 4D space then the question is in so far silly as you can't draw 4D space and any relationship of adjacency depicted is hence merely a metaphor.

 

[Vietthai96]

If the universes are in 4D space then the question is in so far silly as you can't draw 4D space and any relationship of adjacency depicted is hence merely a metaphor.

This is seriously confusing me, what do you mean???

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

If the universes would lie in 3D space besides each other destroying them would by our standards not even grant multiverse level.
If the universes are in 4D space then the question is in so far silly as you can't draw 4D space and any relationship of adjacency depicted is hence merely a metaphor.

Okay. Since the intentions are clear, I will just show you. (Minute 1:30)
This isn't a metaphor it's literally live what's going on.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Okay. Since the intentions are clear, I will just show you. (Minute 1:30)
This isn't a metaphor it's literally live what's going on.

If that were a literal depiction then Dragon Ball would need downgrades, since their universes seemingly all exist in the same 3D space.

This is seriously confusing me, what do you mean???

We humans have 3D vision. Hence we can't see something 4D. So any animation or picture of something 4D can't show what it actually looks like, as human eyes are incapable of seeing what 4D things look like.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

If that were a literal depiction then Dragon Ball would need downgrades, since their universes seemingly all exist in the same 3D space.

We humans have 3D vision. Hence we can't see something 4D. So any animation or picture of something 4D can't show what it actually looks like, as human eyes are incapable of seeing what 4D things look like.

That's not true though, those spheres are the entire universes, and inside them there are different dimensions like afterlife and kai realm which are unreachable from the universe due to them being different dimensions. So those spheres have to be 4D.
I don't understand this reasoning. This is fiction, it's not implausible for 4D spaces to be represented as 3D ones.

 

[Vietthai96]

If that were a literal depiction then Dragon Ball would need downgrades, since their universes seemingly all exist in the same 3D space.

Well no, because the "space" you see in animation is stated as a neutral space between universe, it is not a part of the normal 3D space inside the universe

We humans have 3D vision. Hence we can't see something 4D. So any animation or picture of something 4D can't show what it actually looks like, as human eyes are incapable of seeing what 4D things look like.

While i can understand this reasoning, i think we applying real life too hard on fiction??

 

[DontTalkDT]

Well no, because the "space" you see in animation is stated as a neutral space between universe, it is not a part of the normal 3D space inside the universe

Don't see how that matters. Either they exist within the same three directions of each other or the animation isn't literal.

While i can understand this reasoning, i think we applying real life too hard on fiction??

Not really, no. Nobodies saying fictional characters can't see 4D or that 4D spaces aren't possible. It's just the fact that any animation we see will not be literal. The intention of the fiction can't make up for the fact that something you can't draw in real life can't be drawn in the real life animation.

 

[Vietthai96]

Don't see how that matters. Either they exist within the same three directions of each other or the animation isn't literal.

well, the animation aren't literal, or we will have 4-A universe by now

Not really, no. Nobodies saying fictional characters can't see 4D or that 4D spaces aren't possible. It's just the fact that any animation we see will not be literal. The intention of the fiction can't make up for the fact that something you can't draw in real life can't be drawn in the real life animation.

Oke fair enough, i understand this

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Alright cool I'm downgrading the verse.