- 1,639
- 1,009
So, as far as we have known knowledge about Sonic´s AP, he scales to Solaris and other beings who are actually classified as Low Multiverse level in his podium and as shown in his own profile, but there are actually counter-arguments against that claim through supposed statements in the course of the fight the trio had with the sun deity and other beings.
The argument comes from this guy(I will adress that I actually don´t agree with his claims but whatever):
1. Super Sonic doesn't scale to Solaris
Solaris itself is absolutely low multiversal l. Literally the very first thing Solaris does when it appears in the game is consume the entire timeline Sonic is in, with the cast only surviving because they were "caught by the spatial distortion". Whatever that means. Later, during the actual boss fight, Eggman also says this:
Dr. Eggman: That body of light is the sign of a super-dimensional life form. Standard attacks won't work on him! He eats dimensions for lunch!
Once again showing that Solaris has power on a cosmic scale. The important thing here, however, is that second line. "Standard attacks won't work on him". Even though Sonic has gone Super Sonic, he still can't hurt Solaris. Instead, Eggman suggests this:
Dr. Eggman: But... There should be something anchoring him in this dimension. That's probably the light shells that can be seen on his body. If all of those are destroyed, he can be defeated!
Super Sonic, Shadow, and Silver then all exploit this weakness to banish Solaris from their dimension.
...Except that doesn't work either.
Solaris comes back basically completely unphased. In fact, it's arguable that it just got stronger. We then get this sequence of dialogue:
Dr. Eggman: Ngh... Is it impossible to defeat a super-dimensional being after all?
Elise: No... Something's different... I can feel a large, powerful consciousness coming from Solaris!
Dr. Eggman: What? A consciousness!? Hmm... That's it! That's his core! Even if we can't stop his form, we can stop his consciousness!
Super Sonic, Shadow, and Silver then all attack Solaris' core to defeat it. Again, they aren't matching Solaris' power at all. All they're doing is exploiting a weak point Solaris has.
And even that doesn't defeat Solaris. After the battle, Sonic and Elise go... float in some void, at which point this exchange occurs:
Elise: Did you destroy it?
Sonic: No. That is the true Solaris.
So, not only did the combined efforts of Super Sonic, Shadow, and Silver exploiting Solaris' weak points not defeat Solaris, they weren't even fighting Solaris' true form in the first place. In fact, what ultimately kills Solaris is Elise doing some time shenanigans with Solaris' flame, not anything Sonic ever did.
The only case that can be made for Super Sonic scaling to Solaris is that you can survive his attacks in gameplay, though that just seems like gameplay mechanics to me. By the same line of reasoning, Moblins in Zelda would scale to Ganondorf since they can take hits from Link. It's just not a very strong piece of evidence, especially considering how everything else during the story emphasizes how overwhelmingly powerful Solaris is in comparison to Super sonic
2. Alf Layla wa-Layla isn't universal
Darkspine Sonic isn't really Super Sonic, but he's a similar enough form and he's usually touted as being universal, so I feel like I should address this too.
So, firstly, Darkspine Sonic is legitimately stronger than Alf Layla wa-Layla. There's no contextual shenanigans going on with that scaling, he just is. Furthermore, Alf Layla wa-Layla does legitimately turn the entire world of the Arabian Nights into a void, it's actually the very first thing he does.The problem is that the world of Arabian Nights is literally a book and is ridiculously easy to destroy.
Early in the game we hear that Erazor had already been destroying the world of the Nights by literally just cutting pages out of the book. Like with a sword. Later on Erazor summons the ifrit spirit to destroy any remaining pages by just setting them on fire. Ifrit's fire isn't even really that hot, it got put out by Sonic just dumping a bunch of water on it with a World Ring.
So, yes, Alf Layla wa-Layla did destroy the world of the Arabian Nights, but doing that just amounts to wiping out a bunch of pages in a book, not literally blowing up galaxies or stuff like that. The inhabitants of the Arabian Nights are just somehow able to physically interact with the pages they exist on as some weird form of hax.
3.) Super Sonic doesn't scale to the Egg Wizard
In Sonic Rush Adventure, we learn there's a power greater than the Chaos and Sol Emeralds, the Power of the Stars. According to Eggman Nega, the Power of the Stars is what allows Sonic and Blaze's universes to stay separate, so presumably one with the Power of the Stars would have the ability to move and merge universes, right? Right. The Eggmen then absorb the Power of the Stars into the Egg Wizard, and then Super Sonic beats them, simple scaling.
One problem with this.
Eggman is holding back. At the end of the battle, Eggman Nega reveals that they've had a "Planet-Buster Laser" the entire time, and they just haven't used it. It's also implied that had the laser fired then everyone would've died, given that Eggman calls out Nega as being a madlad for even attempting it and that Super Sonic and Burning Blaze don't even try to stop the blast, only moving once they get saved by Marine interrupting the laser's charge.
Plus, it wouldn't really make sense for Super Sonic to scale to the Power of the Stars anyways when, remember, the Power of the Stars is explicitly far stronger than the Chaos Emeralds.
The argument comes from this guy(I will adress that I actually don´t agree with his claims but whatever):
1. Super Sonic doesn't scale to Solaris
Solaris itself is absolutely low multiversal l. Literally the very first thing Solaris does when it appears in the game is consume the entire timeline Sonic is in, with the cast only surviving because they were "caught by the spatial distortion". Whatever that means. Later, during the actual boss fight, Eggman also says this:
Dr. Eggman: That body of light is the sign of a super-dimensional life form. Standard attacks won't work on him! He eats dimensions for lunch!
Once again showing that Solaris has power on a cosmic scale. The important thing here, however, is that second line. "Standard attacks won't work on him". Even though Sonic has gone Super Sonic, he still can't hurt Solaris. Instead, Eggman suggests this:
Dr. Eggman: But... There should be something anchoring him in this dimension. That's probably the light shells that can be seen on his body. If all of those are destroyed, he can be defeated!
Super Sonic, Shadow, and Silver then all exploit this weakness to banish Solaris from their dimension.
...Except that doesn't work either.
Solaris comes back basically completely unphased. In fact, it's arguable that it just got stronger. We then get this sequence of dialogue:
Dr. Eggman: Ngh... Is it impossible to defeat a super-dimensional being after all?
Elise: No... Something's different... I can feel a large, powerful consciousness coming from Solaris!
Dr. Eggman: What? A consciousness!? Hmm... That's it! That's his core! Even if we can't stop his form, we can stop his consciousness!
Super Sonic, Shadow, and Silver then all attack Solaris' core to defeat it. Again, they aren't matching Solaris' power at all. All they're doing is exploiting a weak point Solaris has.
And even that doesn't defeat Solaris. After the battle, Sonic and Elise go... float in some void, at which point this exchange occurs:
Elise: Did you destroy it?
Sonic: No. That is the true Solaris.
So, not only did the combined efforts of Super Sonic, Shadow, and Silver exploiting Solaris' weak points not defeat Solaris, they weren't even fighting Solaris' true form in the first place. In fact, what ultimately kills Solaris is Elise doing some time shenanigans with Solaris' flame, not anything Sonic ever did.
The only case that can be made for Super Sonic scaling to Solaris is that you can survive his attacks in gameplay, though that just seems like gameplay mechanics to me. By the same line of reasoning, Moblins in Zelda would scale to Ganondorf since they can take hits from Link. It's just not a very strong piece of evidence, especially considering how everything else during the story emphasizes how overwhelmingly powerful Solaris is in comparison to Super sonic
2. Alf Layla wa-Layla isn't universal
Darkspine Sonic isn't really Super Sonic, but he's a similar enough form and he's usually touted as being universal, so I feel like I should address this too.
So, firstly, Darkspine Sonic is legitimately stronger than Alf Layla wa-Layla. There's no contextual shenanigans going on with that scaling, he just is. Furthermore, Alf Layla wa-Layla does legitimately turn the entire world of the Arabian Nights into a void, it's actually the very first thing he does.The problem is that the world of Arabian Nights is literally a book and is ridiculously easy to destroy.
Early in the game we hear that Erazor had already been destroying the world of the Nights by literally just cutting pages out of the book. Like with a sword. Later on Erazor summons the ifrit spirit to destroy any remaining pages by just setting them on fire. Ifrit's fire isn't even really that hot, it got put out by Sonic just dumping a bunch of water on it with a World Ring.
So, yes, Alf Layla wa-Layla did destroy the world of the Arabian Nights, but doing that just amounts to wiping out a bunch of pages in a book, not literally blowing up galaxies or stuff like that. The inhabitants of the Arabian Nights are just somehow able to physically interact with the pages they exist on as some weird form of hax.
3.) Super Sonic doesn't scale to the Egg Wizard
In Sonic Rush Adventure, we learn there's a power greater than the Chaos and Sol Emeralds, the Power of the Stars. According to Eggman Nega, the Power of the Stars is what allows Sonic and Blaze's universes to stay separate, so presumably one with the Power of the Stars would have the ability to move and merge universes, right? Right. The Eggmen then absorb the Power of the Stars into the Egg Wizard, and then Super Sonic beats them, simple scaling.
One problem with this.
Eggman is holding back. At the end of the battle, Eggman Nega reveals that they've had a "Planet-Buster Laser" the entire time, and they just haven't used it. It's also implied that had the laser fired then everyone would've died, given that Eggman calls out Nega as being a madlad for even attempting it and that Super Sonic and Burning Blaze don't even try to stop the blast, only moving once they get saved by Marine interrupting the laser's charge.
Plus, it wouldn't really make sense for Super Sonic to scale to the Power of the Stars anyways when, remember, the Power of the Stars is explicitly far stronger than the Chaos Emeralds.
