Qin Shi Huang and Hades (Record of Ragnarok) Fix

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Shouldn't Qin Shi Huang get a "higher with Shi Huang Goujian Sword" rating since it was able to just plow through Hades' absolute peak amped attack, shatter his bident and then stab him all in one go after absorbing enough kinetic energy when prior Hades was completely overpowering him with Ichor: Desmos? His current AP justification implies he was capable of doing that the whole time but just didn't which is wrong. His Speed justification is also weird as it implies he can perform at speeds that even Sasaki considered impossible to pull off Post-Round 3, which is also backed up by Brunhilde considering using Qin to fight Poseidon instead.

Completely separate issue is his terrible intelligence section which is outdated as hell, it should be either gifted or genius for fighting Chi You for six days straight and not only besting him but also copying his martial arts and mastering them the whole time into a brand new fighting style while they're fighting just from pure observation but this new fighting style is also considered the ultimate martial art in general.

Edit: This would change Hades' Speed as well since he scales directly to Qin of course, almost forgot about that.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Shouldn't Qin Shi Huang get a "higher with Shi Huang Goujian Sword" rating since it was able to just plow through Hades' absolute peak amped attack, shatter his bident and then stab him all in one go after absorbing enough kinetic energy when prior Hades was completely overpowering him with Ichor: Desmos?

But not so much? After creating the sword he lost the first confrontation against the bident, and in the second confrontation he only managed to destroy the bident and do all this after he did the Tortoise Ripple which was said by Hades himself to be something that weakened Ichor: Demos.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

But not so much? After creating the sword he lost the first confrontation against the bident, and in the second confrontation he only managed to destroy the bident and do all this after he did the Tortoise Ripple which was said by Hades himself to be something that weakened Ichor: Demos.

His sword has to absorb kinetic energy to power up, hence why it should get a higher rating regardless.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

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[XSOULOFCINDERX]

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[XSOULOFCINDERX]

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[XSOULOFCINDERX]

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[XSOULOFCINDERX]

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[AnAverageUsername]

Having reread the fight, Qin shouldn't scale to Ichor Desmos in the slightest even with the sword. He was only able to blow through the spear with a combination of the weakening Tortoise Ripple and his armor form, absorbing the force of Ichor Desmos into the sword form.

Honestly Qin should just downscale from Hades in every way, the dude was noted to be physically lacking against the eldest Greek brother and only won because of his technique.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Having reread the fight, Qin shouldn't scale to Ichor Desmos in the slightest even with the sword. He was only able to blow through the spear with a combination of the weakening Tortoise Ripple and his armor form, absorbing the force of Ichor Desmos into the sword form.

Honestly Qin should just downscale from Hades in every way, the dude was noted to be physically lacking against the eldest Greek brother and only won because of his technique.

He should still get a higher rating with his sword regardless because it's outright stated to get more powerful when absorbing kinetic energy, so he should get the higher rating regardless because he did get stronger with it. Also you didn't touch the speed aspect of the thread.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

He should still get a higher rating with his sword regardless because it's outright stated to get more powerful when absorbing kinetic energy, so he should get the higher rating regardless because he did get stronger with it.

It's just a further application of his armor form, or to more accurately put it, a combination of it and sword form. It shouldn't just be "higher" with sword if you want to go with that, but a combination of both from absorbing the energy from the opposing attack.

Also you didn't touch the speed aspect of the thread.

Because I ain't too sure on speed either. All I have to say is that it's stand by Zeus that Hades is faster than Qin, even by a little bit.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

It's just a further application of his armor form, or to more accurately put it, a combination of it and sword form. It shouldn't just be "higher" with sword if you want to go with that, but a combination of both from absorbing the energy from the opposing attack.

I really don't care what the actual cause is, I just want Qin's profile to be fixed and his amp to be acknowledged in his stats.

Because I ain't too sure on speed either. All I have to say is that it's stand by Zeus that Hades is faster than Qin, even by a little bit.

I mean Brunhilde thought Qin could take on Poseidon and Sasaki, the guy who literally killed Poseidon, thought this dude was cracked even in comparison to himself and Hades is faster than Qin which speaks for itself.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

I really don't care what the actual cause is, I just want Qin's profile to be fixed and his amp to be acknowledged in his stats.

Then perhaps his profile could read as "higher with Shield Form + Sword Form" for his AP

I mean Brunhilde thought Qin could take on Poseidon and Sasaki, the guy who literally killed Poseidon, thought this dude was cracked even in comparison to himself and Hades is faster than Qin which speaks for itself.

Then yeah, the scaling could go Poseidon =< Qin < Hades? Or well, Hades would be above Poseidon either way.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

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[XSOULOFCINDERX]

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[XSOULOFCINDERX]

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[XSOULOFCINDERX]

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[Jinx666]

The Sword wasn't necessarily an amp, it was just able to absorb Hades own power and strike using that, as opposed to being that strong on its own. This is all established in his profiel and powers and abilities, since he was using Hades own power via Kinetic Energy Absorption

Qin also had to weaken Desmos with his Air bubbles, so its unfair to say the sword can shatter the Spear on its own.

so Disagree

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

The Sword wasn't necessarily an amp, it was just able to absorb Hades own power and strike using that, as opposed to being that strong on its own. This is all established in his profiel and powers and abilities, since he was using Hades own power via Kinetic Energy Absorption

This is by definition an amp since it's making him stronger regardless of how it's achieved. There are a bunch of characters on the site who get stronger via absorbing kinetic energy, a prime example being Fat Gum from MHA.

Qin also had to weaken Desmos with his Air bubbles, so its unfair to say the sword can shatter the Spear on its own.

I really don't care, his sword is still more powerful than his other attacks via how it inherently functions.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

For the record it wasn't just sword form, it was sword + shield

 

[Jinx666]

This is by definition an amp since it's making him stronger regardless of how it's achieved. There are a bunch of characters on the site who get stronger via absorbing kinetic energy, a prime example being Fat Gum from MHA.

If the amp is reliant on absorbing another beings power, then it isnt a natural stat increase since its reliant on whatever amount of damage Qin absorbs with it.

Its also rather throwaway, compared to a character like Fatgum who has more emphasis on that ability

I really don't care, his sword is still more powerful than his other attacks via how it inherently functions.

You not caring doesn't change the fact the sword on its own has nothing to say its stronger. It literally has to absorb incoming power in order to be better, and doesn't give him an overall buff without the fact.
The sword is just a more offensive take from his defensive style, but was ultimately still not stronger than Hades on its own, and needed to absorb both Hades' power output AND needed to weaken desmos with a separate technique to beat Desmos. Therefore its rather uncertain to say its a significant boost to his AP.

Qin literally won this fight against someone who outstatted him on everything with his hax counters

 

[Jinx666]

Like we shouldnt affect the tier status just because Qin used a more offensive variant of a weapon, and was
A) Not relying on his own power, just the reflected power of Hades
B) It still wasn't enough t overpower Desmos, so he had to combine it with Tortoise Ripple.

Qin the whole fight was relying on countering and defensive techniques, which were still applicable to his AP. Nothing changes

 

[AnAverageUsername]

I really want to stress this heavily

You not caring doesn't change the fact the sword on its own has nothing to say its stronger. It literally has to absorb incoming power in order to be better, and doesn't give him an overall buff without the fact.
The sword is just a more offensive take from his defensive style, but was ultimately still not stronger than Hades on its own, and needed to absorb both Hades' power output AND needed to weaken desmos with a separate technique to beat Desmos. Therefore its rather uncertain to say its a significant boost to his AP.

Qin literally won this fight against someone who outstatted him on everything with his hax counters

For the record it wasn't just sword form, it was sword + shield

 

[Jinx666]

dont focus on the pedantics

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

If the amp is reliant on absorbing another beings power, then it isnt a natural stat increase since its reliant on whatever amount of damage Qin absorbs with it.

Its also rather throwaway, compared to a character like Fatgum who has more emphasis on that ability

You not caring doesn't change the fact the sword on its own has nothing to say its stronger. It literally has to absorb incoming power in order to be better, and doesn't give him an overall buff without the fact.
The sword is just a more offensive take from his defensive style, but was ultimately still not stronger than Hades on its own, and needed to absorb both Hades' power output AND needed to weaken desmos with a separate technique to beat Desmos. Therefore its rather uncertain to say its a significant boost to his AP.

Qin literally won this fight against someone who outstatted him on everything with his hax counters

THAT. IS. AN. AMP. If you disagree then get it removed from every other character with the same ******* power.

 

[Jinx666]

Difference between being amped by your own natural power compared to relying on absorbing someone else's power output.

theres not even a question that it bumps him up a tier, and he had to combine it with a weakening factor elsewhere so we cant even genuinely say that the power amp overpowered Hades.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Difference between being amped by your own natural power compared to relying on absorbing someone else's power output.

Then remove it from other people who outright use this same exact ability.

theres not even a question that it bumps him up a tier, and he had to combine it with a weakening factor elsewhere so we cant even genuinely say that the power amp overpowered Hades.

Dude, I don't even care if it actually makes him stronger than Hades or not, just put the ******* amp on his profile like it says it should be. It's not that damn complicated.

 

[Jinx666]

No? Idk who you talking about or whatever else but i dont control what every profiles says about this. Those characters likely have an actual significant change and dont rely on absorbing external output (and then even further needing to use another technique). Theres no sufficient evidence to say it acc boosts his AP, when its merely just a way for Qin to actually use his offense over his defense.

No, and you can stop getting aggressive please. Its not a big deal. I simply disagree.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

No? Idk who you talking about or whatever else but i dont control what every profiles says about this. Those characters likely have an actual significant change and dont rely on absorbing external output (and then even further needing to use another technique). Theres no sufficient evidence to say it acc boosts his AP, when its merely just a way for Qin to actually use his offense over his defense.

Does Qin actually absorb the kinetic energy to enhance his attacks, Yes or No?

No, and you can stop getting aggressive please. Its not a big deal. I simply disagree.

I'm only getting aggressive because this is the most blatant ability ever and we're arguing about it like we're trying to debate philosophy.

 

[Jinx666]

Qin, or actually Alvitr in this case (as it was attributed to her), was able to reflect and store the Kinetic energy for Qin's final blow, so Yes, they have that ability. But that doesnt mean i think it should justify itself as a higher for AP since it was a very specific combination of techniques, the application of one power, and no solid confirmation its even significant since it was the usage of someone else's power. The sword does NOT start off with having Hades' power, obviously

We are hardly 'debating philosophy' just because i disagree. Getting aggressive over this is counterproductive, you cant always get your way on this site.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Qin, or actually Alvitr in this case (as it was attributed to her), was able to reflect and store the Kinetic energy for Qin's final blow, so Yes, they have that ability. But that doesnt mean i think it should justify itself as a higher for AP since it was a very specific combination of techniques, the application of one power, and no solid confirmation its even significant since it was the usage of someone else's power. The sword does NOT start off with having Hades' power, obviously

I'm not saying it started that strong but it can still become stronger mid-fight by doing this. This is literally like if you mixed Fat Gum's Kinetic Energy Absorption with a Saiyan's Ability to grow stronger mid-fight. It should be in his AP whether you like it or not.

We are hardly 'debating philosophy' just because i disagree. Getting aggressive over this is counterproductive, you cant always get your way on this site.

I was making an example, not being literal.

 

[Jinx666]

Accelerated Development is never accounted for in tier. You cant say how much stronger they'd actually get in a hypothetical fight since theres no narrative, only that they can likely close power gaps.

It cant grow stronger on its own, and can merely just store power. This is reliant on the opponent and not something Qin can just summon at will.

its not an example in the slightest. I think i've made my point, so i wont be replying further. Unwatching this thread

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Accelerated Development is never accounted for in tier. You cant say how much stronger they'd actually get in a hypothetical fight since theres no narrative, only that they can likely close power gaps.

It cant grow stronger on its own, and can merely just store power. This is reliant on the opponent and not something Qin can just summon at will.

It's still something he can use though. If it wasn't usable at all then I wouldn't even be arguing this. For example, Fat Gum can't just use Spear on command, he has to store kinetic energy first and then use it just like Qin's ability.

 

[Small_Ophion]

higher with Shi Huang Goujian Sword

As mentioned by many this shouldn't be just the sword, but the absorption ability in general

so "higher with Absorption", or whatever alternative that could be decided on, such as "higher with Chi You", though I am not fond of this as a specific use of this ability is what would apply here not it in general

It cant grow stronger on its own, and can merely just store power. This is reliant on the opponent and not something Qin can just summon at will.

This whole discussion is non-sensical, though Soul should calm down. The whole point of absorption is that it absorbs power and then Qin adds it to his own, we are not theorizing if he can do this, he did it. He added to the absorbed KE to his own AP, therefore amplifying it, it is higher than his standard AP so it gets a higher rating. Many characters before got a higher rating with this, such as the mentioned Fat Gum who has a near identical ability application in this case.

His Speed justification is also weird as it implies he can perform at speeds that even Sasaki considered impossible to pull off Post-Round 3

This is not what happened in that scene, it's not an actual speed problem in the first place, but a detection problem. The difficult part is finding the new point before it moves due to its constantly changing nature, Qin can do this due to his Qi Sight allowing him to properly see those points or as he calls them, stars, not because he's simply fast. Even Sasaki doesn't attribute this to mere speed, but a method to detect the points.

Brunhilde considering using Qin to fight Poseidon instead

I also find this to be a weak point as Brun was stressed at the time scrolling through all of the fighters, I do not think simply considering it would be good enough to say that they scale. However she does believe him to be stronger than Leonidas and the only person who could defeat Hades (bar Nostradamus most likely as she is saving him as their Joker), if we do consider this alongside him being a candidate considered by a stressed Brun I believe there is a possible speed rating. However I still believe these points remain rather weak due to the nature of RoR statements, a possibly rating would be more favorable in my opinion.

I'll remain neutral on intelligence as it isn't my forte.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I was only really getting heated because the argument that absorbing power and adding it to your own doesn't make you stronger is dumb as hell.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

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[XSOULOFCINDERX]

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[XSOULOFCINDERX]

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[UchihaSlayer96]

Small_Ophion makes a lot of sense to me. I pretty much agree with their points.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Small_Ophion makes a lot of sense to me. I pretty much agree with their points.

Fair enough. You mind tagging some other Staff to look at this?