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Prototype Downgrade - What kind of scaling is that?

I'm not saying it was an instant thing. Just that it was fast enough to threaten a guy who could outrun military helicopters and reach the height of skyscrapers in a single bound. Certainly something worth looking at.

And no offense, but if find it extremely hard to believe you escaped the shockwave with a tank considering how impossible those things were to maneuver in game.
 
If he got reduced to goop he didn't really tank it even if he did surivive it.
 
@PTS

As in... the shockwave you can dodge by jumping up with ease? That doesn't necessarily means it's instantly hypersonic or that it scales to Alex instantly. Also reach the height of skyscrapers in a single bound? Please don't say that. At best it's a large building you can reach with a single bound. I played the game. And outrunning military choppers is not really a feat of speed since I doubt they're even close to Mach 1... If that was the case then the conduits are Infamous such as the Corrupted and Ice Men would be MHS because they were threatening to Cole.

You did see the word 'almost' right? But yes, it was a bit clunky. Either way that doesn't mean it's immediately hypersonic.

@GKS - The nuke feat? Yeah.
 
I'm not saying it's hypersonic. I'm not even saying its supersonic. I'm saying that is worth looking st to better calculate Alex and James's speed. And just because it's not omnidirectional doesn't mean it's not impressive. It just means that there is a spot in which the attack does not cover. Jumping over it means that Alex can still react to and dodge the attack.

The helicopter thing is at subsonic, but I was saying that if Alex could outrun those with ease, it goes to show that the shockwave feat has some merit.

Also, here is a clip of what Alex with a max charge jump + air dash can do: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iNVj0zWhK6s

Also, I don't understand what you were going for with the inFamous comparison.
 
My b on misunderstanding but either way it's still not something easy to calc. How would you even do that? You can use the distance by time but applying the logic that "Character A is that fast, so if I can't dodge this attack 'in game' while others can easily do that then that means that attack is faster.". Basically, it's not a good basis to say that. Otherwise I could claim in a fighting game "Wow I have an easy time dodging lasers, but this guy's combo is so annoying to dodge, that must mean he's FTL". If this was in a cutscene perhaps it has more merit and I'd actually side with it. But it isn't. It's gameplay.

What merit? There's no merit. Going by that logic I could say Cross is as fast as that shockwave because he 'threatened' me in that fight when other people might not have the same sort of situation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyscraper (The Emporis Standards Committee defines a high-rise building as "a multi-story structure between 35―100 meters tall, or a building of unknown height from 12―39 floors"[8] and a skyscraper as "a multi-story building whose architectural height is at least 100 m or 330 ft."[9] )

Not a skyscraper. Just a large building.

I'm saying just because in game you feel threatened by something it doesn't mean in canon that attack would actually be better. Sure it's an impressive attack but that doesn't instantly mean it's faster and better. That's why I used the Cole comparison. I mean for crying out loud if that was the case that would mean anything that threatens you in a video game is dangerous. Example some people might find themselves unable to react to that shockwave, some just literally jumps over it. Which is what I do and react casually on it. Point is, it's Gameplay Mechanics.
 
@TA101 yup

@GKS Nothing but based on the assumption that they get stronger over time, but that's not really that efficient and is quite speculative tbh. We could just say 'likely higher' anyway.
 
But doesn't Cole's MHS+ speed come from keeping up with Kessler, who only dodged the lightning in gameplay? He never dodged lightning in a cutscene. He only blitzed Cole in a cutscene, and Cole at this point had only shown Supersonic reaction.

Cross could already keep up with a guy who could outrun helicopters. So his existence as a threat to Alex isn't crazy at this point.

Still, Alex has mad hops, which usually translates to speed.
 
@PTS

See no matter how skilled you are you can't hit Kessler with lightning. There's also the part that it's backed up by being called a literal lightning bolt. Of course outspeeding an enemy means you're faster than them but at least Kessler has a more concrete basis of dealing with actual lightning. All we have for Alex is that he outspeeds choppers at subsonic, and could sometimes hide from view or get disguises. For all we know Alex can only get away from choppers by disguising or diving into alleyways because I certainly have trouble later on in game with dealing with those, but that doesn't mean Alex is slower than them.

Right, hypersonic Cross, gotcha. But no seriously. Even at that at best the feat is only subsonic. The fial say I have on this is that it's not even hypersonic and supersonic. And that the Prototypes cannot deflect bullets like Dante so at best I put them at supersonic speed.

True, but that's still subsonic

@GKS

It's only the nuke feat

I'm signing off for the day ,massive mirgraine, hopefully I didn't end up sick
 
Actually you can hit Kessler with lightning bolts. Even in hard mode. Though his frequency of dodging them increases the more difficult the game mode is. Does that mean it's pure gameplay mechanics and we can't write Kessler off as a lightning dodger? No. Does that mean I'm MHS+? No. It doesn't.

But you see what I mean when I say just because something happened in gameplay doesn't mean it doesn't hold merit? I'm saying is that someone should put a calc request for the shockwave feat to get a better understanding of where his speed is at.

Also, part of the justification for his speed comes from him dodging M-60 Grenade Launcher, tank shells, gunfire, and Anti Tank missiles, or so it says on his profile. You've only discussed his Greene shockwave and M-60 grenade launcher feat (you used a different grenade launcher for evidence btw, but the rate of fire should be the same anyway). What about all of those other things?

Cross keeping up with Alex is already super shady. And that wasn't even Alex at his strongest.

Hope you feel better.
 
Feeling better now, thanks PTS, I just needed food and honey. probably will spend less time

Anyway GKS, that's the recommend values I have, thinking of changing the 7 tiers to just likelier

Err, you only hit him when he's resting. Either way he dodges your attacks with ease. It's not as if in Greene's case she'll hit Alex no matter what he does. If you want to see it calc, I don't mind. However if you do then you can't apply Alex's speed in to the situation there because it'll be like me claiming everyone else is above Cole's speed because he can shoot lightning. Like I said before the primary reason why Kessler even gets MHS+ is because Cole's attacks are literally dubbed lightning bolts and he doesn't just get hit by them that easily either.

And when has he ever dodged an explosion or outran one? There's such a thing called aim dodging after all. And how different are they going to be? I couldn't find the same exact grenade launcher. How about you kindly show me? Alex can't even outrun the range of a sniper if he was so called hypersonic or even supersonic.


In the end I'll say it again, I don't mind if the calc is performed... But you're only allowed to apply stuff about it that makes sense and not scale from everything. Otherwise if we do that we're going to even have to apply the same for the infected who are capabel of tagging Alex and giving him trouble if they swarm him.
 
Also in the hypersonic thing, in the end it's still not enough. There has been no canonical feats of him consistently dodging those or even outrunning explosions.
 
You can hit Kessler even in mid combat. Like when he's doing his blitz-rush that he does when he goes to do a shockwave punch. You can even hit him when you're running around dodging grenades from his drones and attacks from his phantasms. You haven't lived until you've had to juggle numerous drones, creeping phatasms, land mine grenades, and a bald hooded man running around trying to hit you with beams of lightning. Also, his MHS+ comes from a thread where me and some other guy proved that Cole shot out real lightning, not because his attacks were called Lightning Bolt.

Well if you think all of the things listed under his speed thing hold no merit, then fine, cause I do not feel like replaying Prototype, right now, nor do I have the time. Also, the firing speed for the M-60 should be the same as the one you showed like I said, since most grenada launchers from 1950/60 - Present have a firing speed speed of 76 m/s

I'll put in a calc request.
 
Former I debated numerous times to look like aim dodging.

Second well he couldve just used whipfist or tendrils since latter is possibly a move of his back then. We're not even sure if he was still on the chopper when it crashed.

@PTS

Fair enough. And huh never tried that before

Then there really was no big deal pointing out the differenc ethen. Either way all I want is a dc and speed nerf to possibly or likely supersonic.
 
CoreOfimBalance(COB) said:
Former I debated numerous times to look like aim dodging.

Second well he couldve just used whipfist or tendrils since latter is possibly a move of his back then. We're not even sure if he was still on the chopper when it crashed.
Click to expand...
Yes i know about the former

The second one its also likely that he might have jumped out of it before it crashed like when other users were debating on soldier 76's speed feat on whether he saved the girl before the grenade exploded and if that was accepted why can't this
 
I have no idea what that feat is. Either way it's the simple reasoning as to why Alex can drive a tank when you typically need a crew to handle it. And the fact that even with that the timeframe isnt that short.

Oh and also because thats a cutscene based video. Searched it up after I typed the above. For all we know Alex couldve already killed them before heading there. Then again we kinda need the entire comic series for context.
 
Double posting cause on mobile. I take back what I said earlier on the couldve killed them before the whole event. But we still have no definitive idea of the timespan and he seems to be walking in a rushed manner towards the house. He didnt instantly kill everyone the moment the vehicle exploded.
 
Can somebody summarise the conclusions of this thread?
 
Dc is the same as above. Except replace 8a to 7c to possibly higher.

Speed I'm trying to neef to subsonic, possibly supersonic or higher
 
Can somebody provide a better explanation for the agreed upon changes please?
 
Basically the nuke feat and the city level attack was inaccurate so we nerfed them.

I updated the OP post in order to show that.

On the other hand the speed issue is handled too by nerfing feats that don't really seem consistent or are credible enough for Alex.
 
Okay. And what are the reasons for the ratings that you proposed instead?
 
About to sleep so last response. Because these were the former stats back then before the upgrades. The speed is fitting since he did outran fast choppers and I do hold the likelihood thatvhes supersonic. Dc is for contending with Greene who can shake multiple city blocks with attacks. Possibly more feats on that
 
Okay. Then I think that your suggestions may be reasonable, but you must write good justifications for the statistics within the profiles.
 
CoreOfimBalance(COB) said:
Double posting cause on mobile. I take back what I said earlier on the couldve killed them before the whole event. But we still have no definitive idea of the timespan and he seems to be walking in a rushed manner towards the house. He didnt instantly kill everyone the moment the vehicle exploded.
Click to expand...
Thats ok im only posting now because im in a different time zone and school stuff.We can just low/high ball it and add it to combat speed and reactions also if a shapeshifting machine of death completely destroyed your whole army would you walk in a rushed manner. He might have not so i agree.

And also for combat speed upgrade his air dash and all of his area of effect attacks since it can turn people into paste e.g. This
 
We're not saying he walked but considering it's a cold weather you'll be slowed down a bit.

That's just building level isn't it?
 
Yeah but survival instinct says no.

I was gonna say that the shock wave contributes to combat speed but saw how stupid it was and shelved it.
 
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