Problems with Brobot feat (Mario)

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, it debunks the creation part mostly likely, but not the destruction part. The Japanese text still has the standards for the state of being.

 

[liluzivert]

This feels like a whole lot of mental gymnastics to justify a feat removal. I disagree fra.

 

[Seol404]

I feel like Mr. L/Brobot teleporting the party to space then teleporting back upon defeat far more likely than Mr. L/Brobot literally creating a different dimension containing several stars just to fight the party, especially given teleportation is not an uncommon power in the Mario universe. So I agree with the OP

 

[y3p_owo]

I agree with Gyro

 

[Starsprite53]

I feel like Mr. L/Brobot teleporting the party to space then teleporting back upon defeat far more likely than Mr. L/Brobot literally creating a different dimension containing several stars just to fight the party,

He would do that in earlier chapters if we go by your logic, espacially since the space looks slightly different and have these green lines and who will teleport them back anyways?

especially given teleportation is not an uncommon power in the Mario universe

Creating realms is also not an uncommon power in Mario universe ¯\(ツ)/¯

 

[GyroNutz]

I feel like Mr. L/Brobot teleporting the party to space then teleporting back upon defeat far more likely than Mr. L/Brobot literally creating a different dimension containing several stars just to fight the party, especially given teleportation is not an uncommon power in the Mario universe. So I agree with the OP

How and why would Brobot teleport Mario back to the whoa zone if it's destroyed?

Also, want to point out that Mario + Luigi having dimensional travel/teleportation in base is not only completely unfounded but would make most Mario games trivial.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

How did Mr. L get into the “realm” in the first place if they can’t teleport?

 

[EliminatorVenom]

Also, want to point out that Mario + Luigi having dimensional travel/teleportation in base is not only completely unfounded but would make most Mario games trivial.

Not going to keep up with the discussion as I don't know about Mario at this level, but I don't like this kind of argument. It is incredibly easy to use it on almost any piece of fiction to justify almost anything.

In particular Mario games that have loose canon and capabilities, things that Mario do in some games should make others entirely trivial or otherwise way easier. Most stuff he does on the 3D era and Paper games would make so many things on, say, the original SMB1 or even SMW completely trivial and pointless.

I agree that it is unfounded that the characters have that power in base, but using the later part of the argument isn't right.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Wait, I just recalled something

When meeting Mr. L later Tippi states they fought in outer space (7:08:50)

There was no “realm”, they just went into space

 

[Starsprite53]

Hmmm

 

[GyroNutz]

How did Mr. L get into the “realm” in the first place if they can’t teleport?

Brobot.

In particular Mario games that have loose canon and capabilities, things that Mario do in some games should make others entirely trivial or otherwise way easier. Most stuff he does on the 3D era and Paper games would make so many things on, say, the original SMB1 or even SMW completely trivial and pointless.

Retroactively saying that Mario has X abilities that he's shown in later installments is a bad thing in general, but I think I get what you're trying to say. Even in Super Paper Mario though, Mario/Luigi having dimensional travel/teleportation would change how a lot of things play out.

Either way, it's ridiculous to assume that Mario/Luigi have that ability in base.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Brobot.

So Brobot can teleport, or did it fly there? Because you previously denied the idea that it flew there because “there’s no vertical movement”.

 

[DragonLord]

I feel like outside the possibility that Mario or Brobot teleported them, I really should mention that Tippi can teleport people, she even teleports you back to the main hub in this Chapter due to the player character not being able to breath

 

[Dino_Ranger_Black]

I have to agree. This fight has alot of things against it, rather than for it and in both cases, it's seems more like they were sent forth into space and back, rather than it being created and destroyed. We should definitely remove it.

On an unrelated note before we conclude this, can we include "Light Manipulation" for Giga Cat Mario? The Giga Bells are accessed by the Cat Shines, who are also capable of emitting light to draw Fury Bowser away.....for a short time, that is. Plus, there's the message from the Giga Bell itself:

The beast's fury has grown too strong. The light of the Cat Shines can no longer keep it at bay...

There's also dialogue from Bowser Jr. :

We need to make him REALLY see the light. The way to do that is to find more Cat Shines!

There's also the last message from the Giga Bell once you gathered all of the shines:

You are ready. Go! Cleanse the beast of its fury with the full power of the Cat Shines!

Also, can we please remove DK's Power Star stat? I completely forgot about it.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Mario and Luigi will have to be adjusted then, along with Donkey Kong (Character)

 

[Seol404]

I agree with Dino Ranger

 

[AKM sama]

What we know: there was a transition effect before the fight and the next moment Mario and Brobot were fighting in space. There was another transition effect after the fight and they were back on the ground.

What is not given to us: any mention of teleportation, creation, destruction, or existence of another "realm".

We don't need to fill the gaps in the story with our headcanon, that's not our job. If there's a cutaway, we don't need to make assumptions as to how stuff happened as there can be multitudes of reasons. The assumptions being made here are very convenient, that picks and chooses one transition scene as literal destruction of an unfounded "realm" but doesn't apply the same logic to the previous transition. Again, such "feats" need explicit evidence, not assumptions and headcanon.

I think there is plenty of support in favor of removal of this "feat" which was never really a feat in the first place, and I think we should go ahead with the changes since there is a clear lack of evidence.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Agree with removal: Armorchompy, DragonLord, Maverick_Zero_X, Damage3245, Ogbunabali, Starter_Pack, KingTempest, DaReaperMan, Paul_Frank, Mr._Bambu, SamanPatou, Antvasima (“This is probably fine”), AKM sama, Seol404, Dino_Ranger_Black

Disagree with removal: DarkDragonMedeus, Starsprite53, GyroNutz, liluzivert, y3p_owo

Staff consensus supports the thread, I’m proceeding.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Mario and Luigi will have to be unlocked to be adjusted then

 

[AKM sama]

I have unlocked them.

 

[Foxthefox1000]

4-A feats are really dwindling, huh

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

I have unlocked them.

You can close this thread now

 

[Antvasima]

Wait a little.

Do we need to insert a footnote into Mario's and Luigi's pages about why we should not use this feat?

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Do we need to insert a footnote into Mario's and Luigi's pages about why we should not use this feat?

I don’t believe that’s necessary, it doesn’t seem like a hugely controversial matter.

 

[AKM sama]

Not really. Honestly I am quite sure that the vast majority of the people don't see this as a "feat" so the note would look really stupid imo. We would basically be saying "this thing that you see that you can create wild assumptions about, is not actually a feat due to lack of evidence to support those assumptions". Stuff like this should be normally understood.

If there are more threads in the future about this issue, I guess we can create a discussion rule at that point saying that the effects in Brobot's destruction scene are transition effects, not destruction of a realm.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I will close this thread again then.