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Prime Soul King Profile Additions

Just as possible that the ability is a power uniquely inherent to the individual.

For example, the zanpakuto born from a shinigami is unique to themselves, the form a hollow takes and the abilities they develop are unique to themselves, there are even quincies who held their own unique qualities before Yhwach reached them, Uryu, and Askin to highlight.

Why is it beyond the realm of possibility that Fullbringers can develop their own unique ability?
 
@Sigurd

Yes the SK explicitly guided Ichigo with his own will.

@link

Its beyond possibility because 'their own power' would exist only due to the Shard fragment. The entirety of their power is borne from the Shard.

The only unique Quincies that existed, I may add, were....also Soul King parts, ironically enough on that point. But also none of the aforementioned analogies hold water since their power is not borne of a Shard.
 
>The entirety of their power is borne from the Shard.

This is exactly what I am disputing, so using this as a justification is backwards.

- Shards must be the source for the entirety of a Fullbringer's powers because Fullbringers cannot develop their own unique powers.

- Fullbringers are unable to develop their own unique powers because the Shards are the source for the entirety of their powers.

This reasoning is circular, you can't use one to justify the other when neither point has been proven beyond doubt.

>But also none of the aforementioned analogies hold water since their power is not borne of a Shards

Which means that it is possible to develope an ability independant ot the Shards, thank you. Keep in mind the difference between being the catalyst of an ability, and being the source which is what the shard is in Ginjo's quote. And like I said before, both of the other quotes are vague enough that they could be referring to either, though I give that, the second one seems to imply the latter.

Also, I don't doubt you, you've been reputable so far. But can you source those quotes? I'm guessing they aren't from CFYOW. I don't remember seeing those.
 
@Link

It's not circular, it's what is clearly stated and supported by what I've already quoted and given evidence for. The Shard is their power source, that's a fact.

Also....yes? Of course Shinigami have powers independent of the Shards. I didn't claim that. Shinigami gain power from their Zanpakuto spirit and from manipulating Reiryoku into magical spells. Hollows gain power by evolving into a new state after a Menos reaches a critical mass point and condenses into a new form made of all the souls fusing. Quincies gain power by manipulating Reishi in the air into weapons. Fullbringers gain power by being imbued with a Soul King fragment.

Literally nothing, anywhere, in Bleach ever 'just develops' an ability out of thin air. It all comes from somewhere. There's zero precedence whatsoever for any theory of 'Maybe Fullbringers just develop an ability' in the entirety of Bleach even remotely alluded to, which is why I stand firm by my point still. The only point you could have had would be Orihime and Chad, but they're also....Fullbringers. Your idea needs strong evidence to even entertain as an objection, essentially, whereas even a weak argument in my favor is still a reasonable argument that is supported in-verse.

Also they're from the same chapter I link under the 'Fullbringers' section in my OP, the next sentence after what I quote.
 
Sekkonds. said:
> that profile made 3 hours ago

DefiniTely a troll
Click to expand...
Nah my man not a Troll. Just see the super errors made in this bs biased scaling. Bleach verse gets upgrades but Naruto verse doesn't ?

For instance Soul King was upgraded to Multi Solar System Level for creating multiple stars

Kaguya created dimensions which two have confirmed day and night cycle possessing a Moon and a Sun / Star. Instead of upgraded to Star level at least dwarf star, she is calced at Large Planet Level lol. Let someone in bleach create a dimension with a Star and moon and they would get a super boost😂 https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Soul_King

Senna stop two planets from merging. Toneri who is much weaker than Kaguya, can move the Moon with Tenseigan. Bleach is favored more on this site.
 
@Yella

Naruto has nothing to do this thread. If you believe Naruto can be upgraded go make your CRT and get it accpeted with actual evidence and not just because an unrelated verse got an upgrade.

On topic, Fullbrings are most likely abilities belonging to SK as alluded to by the innumerable powers. If he only got the base powers, he would hardly be described as such when the basic abilities is pulling on the soul of objects for a small range of effects eg elastic ground or air to speed amp. Why reference the race with the greatest variety of powers if it was only to possess a variant a power possessed by 2 of his other 3 races. May as well just be a pure Quincy at that point.
 
@Xulrev

>It's not circular, it's what is clearly stated and supported by what I've already quoted and given evidence for. The Shard is their power source, that's a fact.

Again:

- Ginjo's quote: Although it was not clear what kind of influence this fragment

He only explains the Shard's function as a catalyst for the Fullbringer's own power. He does not say that the Fullbring comes from the Shard. In fact he explicitly states that the power that is developed is reliant on what the individual's attachment is.

- Urahara's quote: By controlling Reishi which dwells in matter

Refers to the powers developed from Fullbring as their very own, while this could be treating the Shard as an intrinsic part of the Fullbringer, there is more of an implication that the power is dependant on the individual.

- Source needed 1: To the Fullbringers themselves, just as the very concept defied logic

This quote is pointless as it makes absolutely no distiction between the basic abilities of Fullbringers, and the Fullbrings they use. Meaning either is equallly likely

- Source needed 2: to go into specifics, the unique inherent ability

Refers to the abilities achieved through Fullbring and related to the Shard, possibly flowery language to emphasize the absurdity of Fullbring powers, but there is more implication that the Fullbrings come from the Shards.

So we have a quote useless to both sides, one quote that could go either way, one quote that near-directly states that individual decides the power, and one quote that near-directly states that the Shard decides the power.

That makes thing essentially an even split, which means that no, the Shard being the power source is not a proven fact, therefore the reasoning is, in fact, circular.

Now I'm a bit confused:

>Of course Shinigami have powers independent of the Shards. I didn't claim that. Shinigami gain power from their Zanpakuto spirit and from manipulating Reiryoku into magical spells. Hollows gain power by evolving into a new state after a Menos reaches a critical mass point and condenses into a new form made of all the souls fusing.

>Literally nothing, anywhere, in Bleach ever 'just develops' an ability out of thin air. It all comes from somewhere.

So where do the powers of a shinigami come from?

Also, Adjucas are born when a single soul achieves dominance over the rest of the souls making up a Gillian, and absorbs them. The abilities they gain are, however, unique to them personally.

The quotes I'm trying to find are not in that chapter.
 
@Anon

Or it was referring to the broken abilities of the Almighty,

Or he has an OP unique Fullbring of his own.

Also, Ichibe's info dump strongly implied that the SK was not the first Fullbringer, so...

Nvm, it was Tokinada that implies that:

"The world did not always have its current form. Without a boundary separating life and death; within this chaotic world.... at first, there stood the original guardian; between Hollow and Man. Quincy, Shinigami, Fullbringer... An existence who could be called the progenitor of all three.."

Laughing heartily, Tokinada went on,

"It was a Quincy as well as a Shinigami; also a human. A symbol of hope governing the chaotic world with innumerable abilities like that of Fullbringers."
 
"Also, Ichibe's info dump strongly implied that the SK was not the first Fullbringer, so..."

This is wrong, he's the progenitor of all 3 species, he's quite literally the 1st being to ever showcase powers. And eventually other people such as the ancestors and Ichibe developed powers. Heck all of Ichibe's powers are from the SK.
 
You are correct about me being wrong about what Ichibe impies, apologies

However:

'>This is wrong, he's the progenitor of all 3 species, he's quite literally the 1st being to ever showcase powers. And eventually other people such as the ancestors and Ichibe developed powers. Heck all of Ichibe's powers are from the SK.'

Ichibe never actually states that the SK appeared first.

"That's right. Others; with special powers, including myself; appeared, but it is fair to say that the Rei-o stood out; his powers very close to omnipotence and omniscience."

He also never says that his powers came from the SK, only that they also appeared.
 
his immortality (tied to Reiokyu), his conceptual name ability (stated SK granted him the name of the monk who names thus givng him the power to speak true names), his very body comes from the SK via the oken.

And dude, he's the progenitor that mean's he's the 1st. If you want to be really technical about it humans were shown to exsit before him and hollows. But nothing proves this since he was born from the world itself like magic.
 
His resurrection ability yes, conceptual name maybe, the last part is only true now.

And he had some special power before the SK enhanced him, or the statement I posted above wouldn't make sense.
 
And it was Tokinada who said it, and not even explicitly. If the SK was absolutely directly the pprogenitor, I'm sure he would have just said that. More likely, though at the same level of speculation, is that the massive releasing of reishi from the hollow caused more and more people to develop their own abilities. So in that way, you could say he was the progenitor of those three races.

All speculation I say. And Ichibe having black is pretty likely.
 
Link Eternal said:
And it was Tokinada who said it, and not even explicitly. If the SK was absolutely directly the pprogenitor, I'm sure he would have just said that. More likely, though at the same level of speculation, is that the massive releasing of reishi from the hollow caused more and more people to develop their own abilities. So in that way, you could say he was the progenitor of those three races.

All speculation I say. And Ichibe having black is pretty likely.
Click to expand...
This is fan-theory and head canon to the highest degree.

You have to ignore lore and the passage to even come up with this.

Fullbringers get their powers from Soul King fragments. He's the progenitor of Fullbringers.

The Shinigami spawned from the Soul King instilling the Soul Cycle and making a world for souls. He's the progenitor of their race.

Quincy stem from Yhwach who is the Soul King's son. he's the progenitor of Quincys.
 
Lol you act like I just declared my on-the-spot theory as canon.

There is a reason I said speculation. The SK is not the source of absolutely everything in the verse.

If shinigami only spawned with the instillation of the Soul Cycle, then what were the ancestors, who had powers of their own.

The SK was a Fullbringer himself. so clearly something in that chaotic world made it possible to become a Fullbringer.

You are correct about the Quincy

Give an explicit statement that the SK was born from the world itself, rather having been a human that was altered in some way.

Because,"could be called' is not, an absolute "yes".
 
DazaiJisatsuManiac said:
When Ginjo stole Ichigo's Fullbring (his Shard probably) he was able to give his ability to all other So it kinda shows that it comes from shard itself Cause other wise it would have been a simple boost which is not what Yukio said when he got it
Click to expand...
....
 
Link Eternal said:
Lol you act like I just declared my on-the-spot theory as canon.

There is a reason I said speculation. The SK is not the source of absolutely everything in the verse.

If shinigami only spawned with the instillation of the Soul Cycle, then what were the ancestors, who had powers of their own.

The SK was a Fullbringer himself. so clearly something in that chaotic world made it possible to become a Fullbringer.

You are correct about the Quincy

Give an explicit statement that the SK was born from the world itself, rather having been a human that was altered in some way.

Because,"could be called' is not, an absolute "yes".
Click to expand...
The ancestors were beings that would later become Shinigami as Ichibei says in the backstory. Shinigami wasn't a thing until the Soul King arrived.
 
Actually, is talking about interpreting the origins derailing this thread? If so, should I post my answer on the General Discussion, or somewhere else?

@Dazai

>When Ginjo stole Ichigo's Fullbring (his Shard probably) he was able to give his ability to all other So it kinda shows that it comes from shard itself Cause other wise it would have been a simple boost which is not what Yukio said when he got it.

I'm not sure what you mean to say by this. This proves that the Fullbring depends on the individual, since if the power came from the Shard, there would have been no need to push Ichigo to awaken his Fullbring, they could have just stolen the Shard from the start.

In addition. Ichigo is still a Fullbringer, and he even still has his Fullbring it simply merged with his shinigami power . The fact that you have to add a 'probably' there means it is a guess, and could just as easily be incorrect.
 
Except Ichigo's shard wasn't active. There is no reason to assume that Ginjo can just steal inactive ones when the entire plan was to train Ichigo to activate and complete it so that they could obtain his power.

That scan also doesn't prove Ichigo is still a Fullbringer. Its Ginjo theorizing why Ichigo is stronger, something that ha s a number of valid reasons.

1. Maybe he still has Fullbring and it fused with his new Shinigami powers (your belief).

2. The shard was taken and he got his powers purely from the dozens of lieutenant and captain level shinigami charging up that sword compared to just Rukia's fodder power level.

3. His soul is simply stronger as a whole instead of the ass human level he was for 17 months due to Ginjo training it.

4. Fullbring's are based on Hollow reiatsu and thus training that makes Zangetsu stronger than before so the Old Man can't restrain as much power, hence the new Zanpakuto.

5. His powers (the Zangetsu's) that had been condensing in one point of his body like Isshin's did, regaining its strength in a dormant state. Having his shard stolen would make no difference to his Zanpakuto as it has nothing to do with his Shinigami/Hollow and Quincy powers so the new influx of Shinigami reiatsu just kickstarted that much like Rukia's unlocked his own BoS.
 
@Anon

Except it is not that the Shard that is activating, the closest supporting quoote is that the Shard responds when introduced to Hollow reiryoku with the child in developement, and that only refers to the birth of a Fullbringer

When it comes to Fullbring, it is stated that it is the Shard that activates the individual's Fullbring, not that the Shard is becoming active.

@Dazai

Then why would the scan highlight alterations made to Ichigo's design that look suspiciously smilar to the armor he used against Tsukishima
 
I think this is all pretty well grasping at explanations at this point; the actual proof we have, and all canon evidence, point to Shards being the soul(heh) source of a Fullbringer's abilities.

Hell, the fact that their Shard can be stolen and then they lose all their Fullbring powers is proof of that! How on Earth can anybody even begin to deny how simplistic the logic is there? Losing the Shard=Losing their Fullbring; if they had obtained 'their own unique power' it wouldn't disappear with the Shard's removal.

The abilities get added to the profile, The Visionary is a 'Likely', and Schrift abilities are a 'Possibly' with a key indicating The Almighty allows for power bestowal to one's self, all things that are supported heavily by canon proof and require theorizing to even begin to dismiss.

I do believe we have entertained all argumentation long enough to postpone creating this profile properly, yes?
 
>Hell, the fact that their Shard can be stolen and then they lose all their Fullbring powers is proof of that! How on Earth can anybody even begin to deny how simplistic the logic is there? Losing the Shard=Losing their Fullbring; if they had obtained 'their own unique power' it wouldn't disappear with the Shard's removal.

1. Prove that a Fullbringer has had their shard stolen

2. Prove that they lose all their Fullbring powers when the only scan of it implies that Ichigo still has his. Also, puzzle this one out for me.

> I think this is all pretty well grasping at explanations at this point; the actual proof we have, and all canon evidence, point to Shards being the soul(heh) source of a Fullbringer's abilities.

And again, because there was no response to this one:

- Ginjo's quote: Although it was not clear what kind of influence this fragment

He only explains the Shard's function as a catalyst for the Fullbringer's own power. He does not say that the Fullbring comes from the Shard. In fact he explicitly states that the power that is developed is reliant on what the individual's attachment is.

- Urahara's quote: By controlling Reishi which dwells in matter

Refers to the powers developed from Fullbring as their very own, while this could be treating the Shard as an intrinsic part of the Fullbringer, there is more of an implication that the power is dependant on the individual.

- Source needed 1: To the Fullbringers themselves, just as the very concept defied logic

This quote is pointless as it makes absolutely no distiction between the basic abilities of Fullbringers, and the Fullbrings they use. Meaning either is equallly likely

- Source needed 2: to go into specifics, the unique inherent ability

Refers to the abilities achieved through Fullbring and related to the Shard, possibly flowery language to emphasize the absurdity of Fullbring powers, but there is more implication that the Fullbrings come from the Shards.

So we have a quote useless to both sides, one quote that could go either way, one quote that near-directly states that individual decides the power, and one quote that near-directly states that the Shard decides the power.

That makes thing essentially an even split, which means that no, the Shard being the power source is not a proven fact.
 
@Link

1. The novels have Shards taken several times, for one such example. It's Tokinada's entire plan, in fact, to coalesce the Shards into a new Soul King being via Hikone/Ikomikidomoe; stealing a Fullbring=stealing the shard.

2. Ichigo did not retain his ability to Fullbring, Ginjo was inquiring as to if the Fullbring training improved his physicals.


All the rest has been addressed by other proof, really. The failure to grasp the context is really just draining my desire to keep reiterating the same things in different ways.
 
1. This is not what I asked.

So he wanted to make a patchwork SK, ok. How does this support Shard=Fullbring.

2. You must be using a more precise translation to claim that because the word 'training' is no where in that scan.

Then let me clear up what my problem is since I seem to be coming up short:

The 'proof' you have provided for you point leaves room for interpretation.

What I mean by that is:

If I were to take the literal meaning behind the statement you have given, there's a problem, because the literal meaning is directly contradicted by the literal meaning of another statement.

>All the rest has been addressed by other proof, really.

I am asking for this other proof, as it is not in this thread

Because you couldn't be referring to the claim that characters in Bleach can't manifest their own unique abilities, seeing as shinigami do, hollows do, and some quincy do, Uryu is not a SK part, nor is Askin a SK part.
 
Ginjo says " Fullbring i gave him........" and we know Ginjo did not give him Fullbring but he gave him training for it. Kinda tells he is talking about training
 
And a scan before Ginjo is talking about upgrade in physical power and most of the Fullbring training especially last part of it was physical training So of course it would up his physical power
 
I am really wondering what the point in bringing up Uryu and Askin is.

Shinigami don't manifest unique abilities without a Zanpakuto to imprint their reiatsu into.

Hollows are notably different from other spiritual races so they aren't a proper example as the super Menos was considered an enemy by the world, no other race is missing their own heart by default, need to deal with constant hunger to fill an all consuming hole, cannibilize and fuse to evolve etc etc.
 
@Dazai

"The Fullbring I gave him"

No, Ginjo did not literally give Ichigo Fullbring. However, he is the entire reason Ichigo developed his own so.

Also, you still haven't refuted the pieces of Fullbring armor on him.

@Anon

Asuachi are blank slates colored by the unique and original abilities of the shinigami that bond with them. The unique abilities manifested by the Zanpakuto originate from the shinigami themselves, which is my entire point.

Uryu had the basis of the Anti-thesis within him before Yhwach brought it to the surface, it is how he survived Auswhalen (I don't think I spelled that right), Askin was already difficult to kill , these are my points, Yhwach did not create these abilities from nothing, they were already present inside of them. Meaning they posessed their own innate unique abilities.

Hollows do have different characteristics from the other races. This does not change the fact that they are still Human Souls, and will return to being pluses when slain by a Zanpakuto. Thereby the abilities they develop come from the Human Soul, bringing them up is valid.
 
We litreally see Ginjo sucking Ichigo dry of fullbring and he mention's it on 1 or 2 occasions again that he drained all of it. As for Armor it could have been extra added after multiple reiatsu added to his own
 
Okay, for the record, no Uryu did not have the Anti-Thesis before Yhwach granted him the ability, he outright and explicitly on-panel gives him that power.

I have zero idea why Askin was brought up? Askin was selected to be on the Schutzstaffel because his ability, The Deathdealing, that Yhach granted him makes him impossible to kill.

Further, Asauchi are imprinted upon by Shinigami, yes. But it's the Zanpakuto that has an ability, not the Shinigami. The sword has a power, not the Shinigami. A Shinigami does not create an ability out of nowhere, it has to be forged. Look at Oetsu and Ichigo, for example. Oetsu outright has to forge his Zanpakuto. Ichibe has to name the Zanpakuto and their abilities.

Hollows themselves do not have abilities. They only have abilities when they coalesce into a giant hybridized form and evolve via unknown means, so the hypothesis that it comes from the Human Soul is complete headcanon as of now.

To defeat the idea that Tokinada Tsunayashiro outright tells us, that of Shards being the source of Fullbringer power, we need to engage headcanon that is not proven.

By application of Occam's Razor, my assertion would be correct.
 
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