Predator Revision

[Promestein]

I've written a draft for a new Predator page, as the current one is kind of a mess, being a character page when it should be a civilization page and accounting for only the highest end of Predator stats (dismissing the fact that most Predators are threatened by Xenomorphs even if they can kill them, with their advantages mostly being technology and skill).

So, with this calc, courtesy of Bambu, we have a tier for Predator weapons (one better than the current one, since 8-B is unjustified and since the 'tank vaporization' wasn't even a tank and wasn't vaporized either). This scales to the top tier of Predators, who can take on Predaliens and Queens (even if somewhat disadvantaged), which can in turn survive Plasmacaster shots. This may be somewhat questionable, though I don't know what an alternative high-end tier would be.

I went with 9-B instead of 9-A for the Predators' low-end, as though the feat of a Predator tearing open tank armor exists, it seems inconsistent with a species that is regular injured and taken down by humans and Xenomorphs capable of far less.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

As I've discussed with you before, I agree with the proposed revisions. And I would like a Civilization Page, yes.

 

[Promestein]

For the record, 7-C stuff came from a discussion with Bambu;

"Land area of a city block is 200 x 80, or 16000 m^2. Multiply this by 300 to get a land area covered of 4800000 m^2. Assuming circular area (as in, conforming to the blast), we can get a radius of 1236.078 meters.

Plugging this into our equation for an explosion, we can instead get a value of 86.03 Kilotons of TNT. Halve for 43.02 Kilotons of TNT, or Town level. This would serve as a suitable low-end."

The quote about it destroying the equivalent 300 city blocks is from Predator 2;

"Punch up for me. Ten years ago one of his kind stalked and eliminated an elite special forces crew in central America. There were two survivors. They indicated that when trapped, the creature activated a self-destruct device that destroyed enough rainforest to cover 300 city blocks. Remarkable weaponry. That's right lieutenant. Other-world life-forms."

 

[Promestein]

Bump.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

I agree with this.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Oh. This. Yeah. I'm all for the Predator revisions and ESPECIALLY for a civilization page, considering it is literally a civilization. With the upcoming movie, might be good to look into the verse and shake the dust off.

And yeah, they should be about that level via self destruct, IIRC one of them fully encompassed a pyramid and the area around it with such a blast (Alien vs Predator, maybe? Been awhile since I've seen the movies).

 

[Promestein]

Yeah, I've got that on the blog! And another feat from AVP for the self-destruct (blows up a pyramid and tunnels through hundreds of meters of ice).

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Yeah. That was super impressive, though I'd have no idea how to handle calc'ing it since I don't remember a good view of it. That said, want the 300 blocks thing put into blog form? Just a quick post for archiving reasons.

 

[Schnee_One]

The predator page linked to something from when they cry....

Am I an idiot?

 

[Promestein]

@Bambu If it's not too much trouble. Thank you!

@Gargoyle It's my sandbox, it's at the bottom.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

@Bambu If it's not too much trouble. Thank you!

Not too much trouble at all. Hope it helps

 

[ByAsura]

Is AvP used or considered non-canon to Predator? There's a few feats in the first movie, like a Predator tossing an Alien through a stone wall, pillars, etc, and withstanding similar punishment. There's also the feat of supporting a large water tower, albeit with leverage.

If so, I can get feats when I get home.

 

[Promestein]

Thank you!

It's canon (at least we are taking it as canon here) and yeah that stuff just supports 9-B (unless it turns out 9-A?). And I looked at that, but... it's really not that great a feat, definitely not Tier 8.

 

[ByAsura]

It could be used for lifting strength.

 

[Promestein]

I don't think it'd beat out Class K.

 

[ByAsura]

Ok.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

@Asura I can still take a look at the feats if you can compile them. No worries.

 

[ByAsura]

Here's the stone wall feat, along with smashing many pillars. [[1]]

Edit: Ok.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Alien Canon is a clusterfuck.

 

[Promestein]

It absolutely is, yeah. Scaling Alien to Predator is more consistent than scaling Predator to Alien (especially given that Ridley Scott's films basically disregard everything else)

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Between the original four movies, that terribad Colonial Marines game, and the new movies, aside from comics and whatnot isn't there like four Alien timelines?

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

@Prom Do you still have my document with all of the feats I gathered for both Aliens and Predator?

 

[Promestein]

I think so, I'll have to fish it out again though.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

If you can't find it, I'll try and dig it up.

 

[Promestein]

I found it. There's nothing really new there unfortunately

 

[Hellbeast1]

Ooh I'm loving this profile suggestion (If im honest I thought i clicked the wrong link at first lol)

 

[Promestein]

Bump

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

What is still to be discussed?

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

This looks really good.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

The explosion calc was accepted at 8-A+.

 

[Promestein]

What's left to be discussed is;

• If 8-A is consistent for high-end Predator physical strength and, if not, a good alternative
• How this scales to more powerful Aliens

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

That's hard to say since I'm not very familiar with the series.

 

[fandom_560165]

I thought their self destruct was well beyond "Town Level?"

Haha it's true that there are some huge inconsistencies in the series due to having a variety of writers who portray Predators in their own unique way with only some broad similaries. There is also the typical issue of plot armor against Predators as antagonists. I don't think that predators ripping through a tank should be ignored.


You don't need to be physically stronger to take down an opponent. As evident by humans (esp. protagonists) and xenomorphs against Predators in some instances.


Isn't this supposed to give Predators composite status anyways?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Self destruct is Town level+ by Anton's method, if it helps. And why did you think it was higher?

 

[fandom_560165]

Because of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvuTHjxKaM8&t=6m28s

It explains why in the current Predator page too.

 

[Promestein]

I mean, yeah, but injuring comparable opponents straightforwardly means you should be in the same tier. I also think that Predators being 9-B is more consistent than 9-A based on a single feat, as, from what I can tell, other Predators have not duplicated 9-A feats (unless something is calced to be 9-A, but for now...).

The Tier 6 feat is super inconsistent.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Predator is inconsistent at 9-A for a single feat but JoJo's is 8-B for a feat that killed the protagonist instantly...

Alright lemme stop lol. I'm all for 9-B as well if the 9-A is such a long shot from the highest 9-B value

 

[Promestein]

It's not a huge longshot, but... it's inconsistent both featwise and how things go down in canon. I'd be more receptive to it if Predators weren't ****** over by normal guns all the time. At this tier being injured by guns is more relevant.

 

[fandom_560165]

I mean, yeah, but injuring comparable opponents straightforwardly means you should be in the same tier. I also think that Predators being 9-B is more consistent than 9-A based on a single feat, as, from what I can tell, other Predators have not duplicated 9-A feats (unless something is calced to be 9-A, but for now...).
The Tier 6 feat is super inconsistent.

It seems the issue here is how inconsistent Predators can be.


They consistently have both bad and good feats that contradict highly with each other, even within the same issue.

You have countless issues where Predators pitifully fall to humans and earthly animals like female bears in melee combat… Yet anyone can point out various showings for them gaining the upper hand over xenomorphs and other worthy opponents.


It's not just their self destruct but just about anything regarding their combat ability is quite inconsistent. I don't even think there really is such a thing as "consistent Predator feats" and "Predator canon" either.


Would it help to mention in the 1st AvP film where it was stated the self destruct "an entire civilization wiped out over night" or something along those lines? Then again, in the 1st Predator movie the self destruct was so impotent that Dutch managed to outrun from its blast radius.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Wiping out a civilization isn't a calc-able feat, civilization could be as big as a wandering tribe or something like that.

9-B Preds seems consistent enough to me.