Pre-Crisis Firestorm Revision

[LordTracer]

So, Firestorm is currently tiered at High 6-B, possibly higher, which I assume is from scaling to Flash, who used to be High 6-B. However, Flash has since been upgraded to 2-C, possibly 2-A, so Firestorm should be updated to match that.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

I request that the page is deleted, I bet whoever made that hasn't read all his appearances

 

[Confluctor]

I request that the page is deleted, I bet whoever made that hasn't read all his appearances

You know, compared to a million other DC pages - which are straight up trash, this is really well done.

Also, can you refrain from commenting this kind of shit? You have accused others for not reading "enough comics" and whatnot, and that's not good. If you think it's missing abilities, go ahead, read everything from pre crisis and fix it yourself.



anyway, as for the thread itself, wouldn't it be better to scale to that value of Flash instead of 2C? His other feats aren't that iimpressive

Also I think flash's 6-B key needs to make a return. He isn't always 2C, just like his post crisis and New 52 self.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Also I think flash's 6-B key needs to make a return. He isn't always 2C, just like his post crisis and New 52 self.

Why? I didn't read enough pre-crisis comics

 

[LordTracer]

anyway, as for the thread itself, wouldn't it be better to scale to that value of Flash instead of 2C? His other feats aren't that iimpressive

Well, unless Barry gets his High 6-B tier back, we can’t really do that.

 

[LordTracer]

Bump

 

[LordTracer]

Bump

 

[LordTracer]

Bamp

 

[Confluctor]

@Antvasima @Amelia_Lonelyheart

 

[Antvasima]

@C2_of_Omegon @Eficiente @Qawsedf234 @SuperAPM @Firestorm808 @EmperorRorepme @LuciferDC099 @Ehnkr2beboh @Deagonx @Elizio33 @The_Impress @Planck69 @MarvelFanatic119 @catzlaflame @Armorchompy @Kulf_Boba

Would any of you be willing to help out here please?

 

[LordTracer]

Iirc, there was some contention to having Pre-C Flash solidly scaling to Tier 2, so there might need to be a new discussion on him in order to sort this thread out.

 

[Armorchompy]

Honestly with the Flash seeing the attack coming, going fast and still acknowledging that it would not just one-hit kill him but completely incinerate him, I think there might be grounds for scaling to 2-C here.

 

[Antvasima]

From what I recall, the Pre-Crisis version of Firestorm was treated as far less powerful than characters like Superman, and had serious problems with villains of the Killer Frost level. Are there any feats of his own, or of characters at his level, that we can scale from?

 

[Armorchompy]

To be honest, recalling something from memory is in my opinion something that should not be taken over scans that we have in the present moment, after all there might be context negating that or you might be simply mistaken, no offense meant of course, but it is a possibility.

That said, going by the profile, he can reproduce the heat of the Sun's core, which is 8-A+ as a standard feat but might be far higher considering it affected miles of land. He also disperses a storm which is somewhere into tier 7, but not something I could calculate.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, the Pre-Crisis Flash was also generally not treated as being particularly resistant to damage, even when running, so I do not think that we should give Firestorm such an extreme statistic as 2-C or higher based on a single case of what was likely this inconsistency or an outlier.

 

[Firestorm808]

Well, the Pre-Crisis Flash was also generally not treated as being particularly resistant to damage, even when running, so I do not think that we should give Firestorm such an extreme statistic as 2-C or higher based on a single case of what was likely this inconsistency or an outlier.

Wait. What thread upgraded normal Pre-Crisis Flash to 2-C?

 

[LordTracer]

Wait. What thread upgraded normal Pre-Crisis Flash to 2-C?

I believe it was the thread that gave Pre-C Superman his possibly 2-A rating.

 

[Firestorm808]

I can understand if this is under the condition of him running at his peak or something, but I don't think it should count for his normal speeds or below that he got hurt by the rogues in.

 

[Antvasima]

I can understand if this is under the condition of him running at his peak or something, but I don't think it should count for his normal speeds or below that he got hurt by the rogues in.

Agreed. His rogues gallery could regularly pose a threat to him, and they had nowhere near a 2-C scale of power.

Help with fixing both the Pre-Crisis Flash and Firestorm pages would be very appreciated.

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

Agreed. His rogues gallery could regularly pose a threat to him, and they had nowhere near a 2-C scale of power.

Help with fixing both the Pre-Crisis Flash and Firestorm pages would be very appreciated.

A) Flash holds back against his Rogues. A lot.
B) Some of them could actually match him physically, like the Top, who is consistently faster than him
C) Vast majority of the rogues relies on hax and other abilities to combat him.
And Firestorm was quite literally stated to be able to incinerate Flash, so his scaling is definitely reasonable.

 

[Antvasima]

The Flash has had very inconsistent durability though, especially Pre-Crisis. We cannot scale every single character of that era to the most powerful characters such as Superman.

 

[LordTracer]

We cannot scale every single character of that era to the most powerful characters such as Superman.

Iirc, someone was working on giving Pre-Crisis Superman multiple keys for different eras, so that’d fix that problem.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. The Flash is weird in the sense that on the one hand he can withstand the hits of his own punches at high speeds, and on the other he can usually be harmed by almost conventional weaponry, though. The writers do not write him as being anywhere near as invulnerable as Superman in general.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

I figure Flash should have a Variable Tier like his Post-Crisis and Post-Flashpoint counterparts

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, strongly agreed.

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

Flash's variable tier is a case of him holding back on his enemies. Firestorm was stated to be able to incinerate him

 

[Antvasima]

He had extremely inconsistent durability as well, as we mentioned earlier, as is also apparent in the post-Crisis Flash profile pages.

As such, it is only acceptable to scale Firestorm from his own feats, and that's it.

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

He had extremely inconsistent durability as well, as we mentioned earlier, as is also apparent in the post-Crisis Flash profile pages.

As such, it is only acceptable to scale Firestorm from his own feats, and that's it.

The only thing that was mentioned in the profile page was that he’s more durable while running. He was running as he was saying a firestorm is going to vaporize him

 

[Antvasima]

We cannot say that Pre-Crisis Flash was usually treated as having anywhere near tier 2 durability, and then scale Firestorm from that when all of his own feats were of nowhere near that scale. It was largely a goofy and very inconsistent cartoony era. Sorry, but that is final, and I would appreciate if you stop repeatedly bothering me about it any further. I am stressed out and overworked, and my patience has run out regarding this.

Pre-Crisis Blackfire and Starfire also need to be significantly downgraded btw. Amelia said that she would handle it earlier.