Practical differences of Infinite Speed vs Immeasurable

[NeoTengus]

Hi all,

So when you you read the speed page you get to this description separating the two:

Infinite Speed (Able to travel anywhere instantly, or move an infinite distance within a finite amount of time. Teleportation does not count. For further information, see the "Further Explanations"-section below.)

Immeasurable (Movement beyond linear time. This is why the speed cannot be measured. Given that S = D/T, if T is undefined the speed formula cannot be applied. This is the same reason why multiple temporal dimensions also grant immeasurable speed. For further information, see the "Further Explanations"-section below.)

And then further clarification in the bottom section being:

The difference between infinite and immeasurable is that the former can go everywhere instantly, whereas the latter can go everywhere and everywhen faster than instantly.

For more information, Infinite speed characters are so fast, they move faster than time can flow at any period. They perceive every finite speed character as completely frozen and it takes 0 time to react to any finite speed object or travel finite speed distance. They can also perform and infinite number of actions or travel infinite distance within a finite amount of time. An infinite speed character's perception of time only flows when they allow it to flow.

Immeasurable speed characters are far beyond even those Infinite speed characters listed above. They perceive infinite speed characters as completely frozen, and they can travel forward and backward in time at will. They have the speed necessary to hop from the beginning of time, to the end of time, and anywhere in between as casually as a human being can roll their eyes left or right. This also means their reaction time is faster than instantaneous. They can dodge an attack that already has been struck, and they can strike someone even before they launched an attack. And they can do all of this via sheer speed.

How true is the definition given for Immeasurable here? There are characters that are given the immeasurable ranking that do not seem to be able to actually travel left and right on the time stream at will, and when I asked about that, that apparently is not an actual requirement to be given an immeasurable speed ranking despite what the page says.

If that is the case, how is the ranking achieved? Because without the clear worded distinction of Immeasurables being able to go 'everywhere and everywhen' through sheer speed, it seems hard to distinguish it from just plain ol' infinite.

So I guess my question is, what are the true requirements (and how would it be indicated in a story typically) of a character with actual immeasurable speed? Because if you ask me if Sol Badguy could pull some Wally West type shit and run to the end of time, I really don't see how I can justify that.

Does there need to be another ranking in-between infinite and immeasurable? Not sure if that's ever been discussed.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Berhann]

1. Infinite can NOT move through time it’s only limited by the space of that timeline(by space I mean places that can be moved wheter it’s inside/outside of the universe or nothingess), but with imm spead you arent just limited with your space of your timeline(same meaning as above) and you can travel through time
2. To have imm spead you dont have to be able to walk through timeline effortlessly and go to the exact time you want to(flash is an example of this), even if you use every f***ing piece of energy and nearly die to travel it’s considered imm spead(of course depending laws of the fictional verse it might not be considered imm speed)
3. Imm speed is faster than infinite speed which is instant(being faster than instant doesnt mean you are imm speed either as far as I know)

These are what I know so they might be wrong so it’s better for you to wait for other replies(if I am wrong please correct me)

ı hope you understand what I mean

 

[NeoTengus]

Thank you for the reply,

I already understand infinite, but I'm having a hard time understanding your points about immeasurable speed. May just be the syntax.

Trying to understand, if you don't have to move through time with sheer speed to be immeasurable (ignoring obvious tropes where its done with only baseline FTL speed such as with Reeves Superman), then what exactly do you need to be immeasurable in ranking?

For example, let's say a verse establishes that it has multiple layers of temporal dimensions, and you surpass the first temporal dimension, would that be enough for an immeasurable ranking?

 

[Lightning_XXI]

1. Infinite can NOT move through time it’s only limited by the space of that timeline(by space I mean places that can be moved wheter it’s inside/outside of the universe or nothingess), but with imm spead you arent just limited with your space of your timeline(same meaning as above) and you can travel through time
2. To have imm spead you dont have to be able to walk through timeline effortlessly and go to the exact time you want to(flash is an example of this), even if you use every f***ing piece of energy and nearly die to travel it’s considered imm spead(of course depending laws of the fictional verse it might not be considered imm speed)
3. Imm speed is faster than infinite speed which is instant(being faster than instant doesnt mean you are imm speed either as far as I know)

These are what I know so they might be wrong so it’s better for you to wait for other replies(if I am wrong please correct me)

ı hope you understand what I mean

If you take a look at 90% of the profiles that have Immeasurable speed, you'll see they don't travel in the timeline at absolute will, it isn't necessary to have that ability in order to have Immeasurable speed

Which further shows that the next paragraph is examples and possible uses, not requirements, that changes everything

 

[NeoTengus]

Ok, but what exactly do they have to do in order to be immeasurable?

If they don't have to be able to travel their timeline at will, what do they do that distinguishes them from simply being able to travel instantly? Heck even travelling seconds into the past or future seems like something beyond 90% of what those with immeasurable speed rankings can do.

I guess that's what my question boils down to. Right now its coming across as though baseline immeasurable is just a higher infinite of baseline infinite speed.

 

[Deadguy]

Ok, but what exactly do they have to do in order to be immeasurable?

If they don't have to be able to travel their timeline at will, what do they do that distinguishes them from simply being able to travel instantly? Heck even travelling seconds into the past or future seems like something beyond 90% of what those with immeasurable speed rankings can do.

I guess that's what my question boils down to. Right now its coming across as though baseline immeasurable is just a higher infinite of baseline infinite speed.

You can do that by proofing that the character in question showed or stated that his/her movements are beyond what time can measure because unlike infinite speed it still measured by time(yes I know it's 0 but it still counts) while immeasurable speed can't be defined by time at all
hope that made it more simple

 

[NeoTengus]

You can do that by proofing that the character in question showed or stated that his/her movements are beyond what time can measure because unlike infinite speed it still measured by time(yes I know it's 0 but it still counts) while immeasurable speed can't be defined by time at all
hope that made it more simple

Thanks for the response.

But...movements beyond what time can measure...doesn't that make it similar to moving in a timeless void? Which is no longer used.

 

[KLOL506]

Thanks for the response.

But...movements beyond what time can measure...doesn't that make it similar to moving in a timeless void? Which is no longer used.

Uh, no, that's not how it works.

Basically Immeasurable speed at the bare minimum needs you to be able to outspeed linear time itself and be well beyond its control, anything else beyond that is just supporting evidence (Like punching into the past or future which usually happens to be a side-effect of immeasurable speed, but you can't use "punching into the past/future" feats on their lonesome without some evidence that they can move faster beyond the confines of linear time).

Without time existing in the first place, you really can't measure the speed to begin with, since there's nothing to outspeed there in the first place.

 

[Deadguy]

Thanks for the response.

But...movements beyond what time can measure...doesn't that make it similar to moving in a timeless void? Which is no longer used.

I said it can't be measured by "time" and timeless void isn't immeasurable because it doesn't transcends time but more just exists outside of it no more no less and it's case by case not all timeless voids across fiction gives any speed feats at all

 

[NeoTengus]

I said it can't be measured by "time" and timeless void isn't immeasurable because it doesn't transcends time but more just exists outside of it no more no less and it's case by case not all timeless voids across fiction gives any speed feats at all

I guess I'm having trouble seeing a distinction between time that 'can't be measured' (meaning 0 is a measurement and thus doesn't count) and time not existing at all.

The alternate thought I had, and maybe I'm thinking too arithmetically; but if it can't be measured and 0 is considered a measurement, my mind goes to thinking about negative time, e.g. moving into the past.

Uh, no, that's not how it works.

Basically Immeasurable speed at the bare minimum needs you to be able to outspeed linear time itself and be well beyond its control, anything else beyond that is just supporting evidence (Like punching into the past or future which usually happens to be a side-effect of immeasurable speed, but you can't use "punching into the past/future" feats on their lonesome without some evidence that they can move faster beyond the confines of linear time).

Without time existing in the first place, you really can't measure the speed to begin with, since there's nothing to outspeed there in the first place.

Well here's what I'm saying,

Is immeasurable something that can be given by a statement alone? Simply saying something is beyond linear time, without the logical consequence of being shown as capable of moving through it?

If so it really does seem more and more that at a glance it can just be a higher level of infinite speed, if indeed temporal traversal is merely a supporting argument.

I'm fine with that if that's the case, but I'm really just trying to get that clarification hammered away. Doing some fanfic writing of my own and don't want to mess that up.

 

[Deadguy]

I guess I'm having trouble seeing a distinction between time that 'can't be measured' (meaning 0 is a measurement and thus doesn't count) and time not existing at all.

Maybe I'm thinking too arithmetically but if it can't be measured and 0 is considered a measurement, my mind goes to thinking about negative time, e.g. moving into the past.

Basically 0 is a number and origin starting point in any measurement even if still go to a place in zero time your movements still started from it and having no time is basically having zero time all the time while immeasurable speed users movements doesn't even start from zero this it comes the famous quote of "they can go before start moving" meaning their movement even denied the the 0 movement that they supposed to start with it that's why it can't be measured by time and if you still didn't get it then I honestly don't know what to tell you but I hope it does clear it up

 

[NeoTengus]

Sort of, I already understand that 0 is a measurement, but being beyond time measurements still makes me think of traversing a time left or right like a stream/river.

 

[Scottycj256]

the practical difference between infinite and immeasurable is that both are speeds that go beyond the normal speed formula (Speed = Distance/Time) for different reasons

Infinite speed is what you get when you substitute time with 0

Immeasurable speed is what you get if the time variable is undefined

Immeasurable >>>>>> Infinite because Immeasurable is a speed not dependent on time compared to Infinite speed which still has a variable for time

its called immeasurable because the speed formula is incomplete, due to the fact that the character transcends time anyways and cant use time to measure their speed