Post-Crisis Superman vs Buu Saga Goku.

[ShutUp123]

No one is denying that Superman cannot use his move.The only problem here is that it is not his character to rely on that move.It is not in superman's fighting style can't you see my point?

And it's not Goku's style to blindly fire away at a fast moving target. He's not Vegeta.
That said, Superman used said technique in battle before, so it's not really out of character

I can't comment on what Goku would do when he get bloodlusted because i don't remember Goku getting bloodlusted.

Ok Superman used phasing againt doomsday and phasing his punch againt cyborg superman in the battle and thats it.The point is superman isn't like itachi who uses his gengjutsu regularly in a battle so what are the odds superman using his phasing technique very low.Goku has more chances of winning than superman but at the end, this battles usually ends in flame wars and we all know that.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Ok Superman used phasing againt doomsday and phasing his punch againt cyborg superman in the battle and thats it.The point is superman isn't like itachi who uses his gengjutsu regularly in a battle so what are the odds superman using his phasing technique very low.Goku has more chances of winning than superman but at the end, this battles usually ends in flame wars and we all know that.

Don't worry. While it usually does. This is a friendly site that generally avoids flaming others. Those who do flame get blocked along with their messages.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

but they need to be pulled out dont they?

Obviously. That's where the molecule phasing helps and actually would allow him to do damage.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I can't comment on what Goku would do when he get bloodlusted because i don't remember Goku getting bloodlusted.

Ok Superman used phasing againt doomsday and phasing his punch againt cyborg superman in the battle and thats it.The point is superman isn't like itachi who uses his gengjutsu regularly in a battle so what are the odds superman using his phasing technique very low.Goku has more chances of winning than superman but at the end, this battles usually ends in flame wars and we all know that.

Frieza and Tambourine come to mind.

You are asking for consistency for a character with many, many different writers from many different decades to be compared to be comparative to a character written by a single write over the course of like...one. If Superman has shown to be able to use a power (which he has, multiple times, and as I stated, multiple ways), you can't deny him the ability to use it in a battle. It's like saying he can't use the IMP because he's only used it a handful of times.

 

[fandom_420Swagnemite]

Oh boy...

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Quick question: On the off chance that this comes to a conclusion, would this be added? I'm asking a mod or a long-time member. This clearly falls under controversial, but it's an old Goku and an old Superman, so I'm a bit unsure on how this would fall

 

[ShutUp123]

I can't comment on what Goku would do when he get bloodlusted because i don't remember Goku getting bloodlusted.

Ok Superman used phasing againt doomsday and phasing his punch againt cyborg superman in the battle and thats it.The point is superman isn't like itachi who uses his gengjutsu regularly in a battle so what are the odds superman using his phasing technique very low.Goku has more chances of winning than superman but at the end, this battles usually ends in flame wars and we all know that.

Frieza and Tambourine come to mind.
You are asking for consistency for a character with many, many different writers from many different decades to be compared to be comparative to a character written by a single write over the course of like...one. If Superman has shown to be able to use a power (which he has, multiple times, and as I stated, multiple ways), you can't deny him the ability to use it in a battle. It's like saying he can't use the IMP because he's only used it a handful of times.

Goku toyed with frieza in his entire fight and in dragonball Goku's character was not fully developed

But there are techniques like heat vision which superman uses in battle consistently so it is more likely superman uses techniques which he likes more just like goku favours kamehameha as compared to his distructo disc.

Regarding IMP it was consistently shown that superman and supergirl uses that technique to destroy large objects like moon whenever there is a need.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Goku toyed with frieza in his entire fight and in dragonball Goku's character was not fully developed

But there are techniques like heat vision which superman uses in battle consistently so it is more likely superman uses techniques which he likes more just like goku favours kamehameha as compared to his distructo disc.

Regarding IMP it was consistently shown that superman and supergirl uses that technique to destroy large objects like moon whenever there is a need.

Goku didn't really "toy" with Frieza. He was more teaching him a lesson the hard way, but he was still furious at just having his friend killed.

Yes, but why would Superman use heat vision repeatedly on a foe he saw it couldn't hurt. If he realized he couldn't break Goku's skin, there's no reason as to why he wouldn't think to use something like phasing.

It's still a relatively small number of times compared to say...heat vision. The point is there's not some kind of arbitrary limit for the number of times you have to use a power for it to be counted. As I pointed out, it's a versatile power used multiple times by multiple characters, and Superman is one of them.

 

[Maria_Lucero]

I think Goku takes this!

I vote for him!

 

[ShutUp123]

Goku only uses his rage to transform into ssj.Goku don't have any intention to kill frieza so how that comes under bloodlusted if he don't have any intention to kill him but there are other characters like kid buu and yakon which Goku killed without bloodlusted.

The thing is that we are here talking about superman and his decision making.e.g Superman decided to phase through doomsday punches but he didn't decided to phase his punch through doomsday gut.It doesn't make any sense but it comes under character's decision making.Superman could have atleast tried that technique when he was getting his ass kicked by numerous other characters to avoid atleast hitting but like i said it's not his style to repeatedly spam phasing even when he goes bloodlusted and by the way superman would hurt goku even without phasing so it will be highley unlikely he could go phasing against the character which will be getting damaged by superman.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

The thing is that we are here talking about superman and his decision making.e.g Superman decided to phase through doomsday punches but he didn't decided to phase his punch through doomsday gut.It doesn't make any sense but it comes under character's decision making.Superman could have atleast tried that technique when he was getting his ass kicked by numerous other characters to avoid atleast hitting but like i said it's not his style to repeatedly spam phasing even when he goes bloodlusted and by the way superman would hurt goku even without phasing so it will be highley unlikely he could go phasing against the character which will be getting damaged by superman.

Again, see the consistency statement above. You are asking "well why didn't superman use x technique against y villain"? Because different comic, different author, different eras. If Superman has a technique he can use, then he can use it in this battle. We don't run vs battles on PIS or CIS. Otherwise Superman would just use his heat vision to shoot through Goku's heart or something stupid.

I also don't see how his regular attacks would hurt Goku, whose durability is much higher than Post-Crisis' normal AP.

 

[KazarianFahs]

large star level vs solar system level -_-

 

[Maria_Lucero]

I think you guys have to remember this is only Post-Crisis Superman.

Do not mix versions, please!

How many votes were there for Goku? 9?

 

[Maria_Lucero]

HIGH 4-C.

They are almost equal.

 

[Promestein]

A lot of these votes have no or inadequate reasoning.

 

[KazarianFahs]

HIGH 4-C.
They are almost equal.

Not really as the tiers keep increasing,the gap between them does too,there isn't as much comparative difference between a tier 8a and 8b as much as there between a tier 3c and 3b,and even they have lesser difference than tier 2a and 2b(haxxes excluded) the raw power jumps are ridiculous and the gap keeps increasing each tier.

 

[Promestein]

The tiering isn't particularly important here, considering in Round 2, Supes is fast enough to blitz and phase his fist into Goku's chest and tear his heart out.

 

[KazarianFahs]

The tiering isn't particularly important here, considering in Round 2, Supes is fast enough to blitz and phase his fist into Goku's chest and tear his heart out.

True that tho,i was just saying something.

Back to battle,round one goku by all around vastly superior stats.

round two superman,insane speed advantage,goku in ssj3 is ~1.5 times the speed of light,while PC supes is millions of times faster than light,He can close the distance and use any technique he has,heat vision to the eyes,phasing through brain/heart,before goku's brain can process it.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

The tiering isn't particularly important here, considering in Round 2, Supes is fast enough to blitz and phase his fist into Goku's chest and tear his heart out.

True that tho,i was just saying something.
Back to battle,round one goku by all around vastly superior stats.

round two superman,insane speed advantage,goku in ssj3 is ~1.5 times the speed of light,while PC supes is millions of times faster than light,He can close the distance and use any technique he has,heat vision to the eyes,phasing through brain/heart,before goku's brain can process it.

... goku is at least FTL+

and post crisis superman is 262x speed of light

 

[ShutUp123]

Atleast we can say that superman don't uses phasing right off the bat.Then woudn't bloodlusted goku just simply destroys superman before he could use his phasing?

 

[KazarianFahs]

The tiering isn't particularly important here, considering in Round 2, Supes is fast enough to blitz and phase his fist into Goku's chest and tear his heart out.

True that tho,i was just saying something.
Back to battle,round one goku by all around vastly superior stats.

round two superman,insane speed advantage,goku in ssj3 is ~1.5 times the speed of light,while PC supes is millions of times faster than light,He can close the distance and use any technique he has,heat vision to the eyes,phasing through brain/heart,before goku's brain can process it.

... goku is at least FTL+
and post crisis superman is 262x speed of light

Might be,you guys should add the exact speed calcs(verified) on the pages(would make everything a lot easier),since all i can find on the internet is top feats

 

[KazarianFahs]

Atleast we can say that superman don't uses phasing right off the bat.Then woudn't bloodlusted goku just simply destroys superman before he could use his phasing?

If supes is also bloodlusted why wouldn't he use phasing,off the bat?goku doesn't destroy anyone or use kamehameha off the bat,if it's a bloodlusted match,both combatants will fight and use their trump cards instantly and go for the kill,and since supes is way faster, bloodlusted supes phase kills goku,before goku realises.

 

[ShutUp123]

Atleast we can say that superman don't uses phasing right off the bat.Then woudn't bloodlusted goku just simply destroys superman before he could use his phasing?

If supes is also bloodlusted why wouldn't he use phasing,off the bat?goku doesn't destroy anyone or use kamehameha off the bat,if it's a bloodlusted match,both combatants will fight and use their trump cards instantly and go for the kill,and since supes is way faster, bloodlusted supes phase kills goku,before goku realises.

If comics don't displays that superman uses phasing while being bloodlusted then you simply cannot assume that he would do that in the battle as he always goes for other options.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

If comics don't displays that superman uses phasing while being bloodlusted then you simply cannot assume that he would do that in the battle as he always goes for other options.

He doesn't need to use it off the bat. He can try an attack, see it won't work, and then move into the lethal stuff like phasing. His combat speed is faster than Goku's (and his travel speed is much, much faster), so he'd have a good chunk of time to try something out.

 

[Metabro]

C'mon mang...

Even with speed equalized, Supes has both the Mageddon [feat] and the Apokolips-New Genesis collision [feat]. Hell, EARLY Post-Crisis Superman had a large star level [feat], and he only got stronger from there. Goku can't really compare to that, and I fail to see any argued that puts him at solar system level besides Super Saiyan multipliers

Supes is in the [trillions] of times of FTL with normal speed, so yes he does blitz in scenario 2

 

[Promestein]

Goku is Solar System level through scaling to Super Perfect Cell.

 

[ShutUp123]

If comics don't displays that superman uses phasing while being bloodlusted then you simply cannot assume that he would do that in the battle as he always goes for other options.

He doesn't need to use it off the bat. He can try an attack, see it won't work, and then move into the lethal stuff like phasing. His combat speed is faster than Goku's (and his travel speed is much, much faster), so he'd have a good chunk of time to try something out.

But i heard that speed difference is not likely that big so it all comes down to speed in the end.If speed difference not that big than Goku otherwise superman.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

But i heard that speed difference is not likely that big so it all comes down to speed in the end.If speed difference not that big than Goku otherwise superman.

He can fight at least like...twice as fast as Goku, and his travel speed is absurdly beyond what Goku is capable of keeping up with. He also has the massive advantage of being able to leave the atmosphere, giving him a much better range and safety zone.

 

[Metabro]

Goku is Solar System level through scaling to Super Perfect Cell.

And the planet collision feat puts Supes at a much higher degree of solar system level than any level we could safely place Goku at

 

[Aurugermil]

If Superman can use his phasing and intangibility, won't he just win both round 1 and 2 by ripping Goku's heart at the end?

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

^ he wud win round 2

but goku wud win round one

 

[ShutUp123]

But i heard that speed difference is not likely that big so it all comes down to speed in the end.If speed difference not that big than Goku otherwise superman.

He can fight at least like...twice as fast as Goku, and his travel speed is absurdly beyond what Goku is capable of keeping up with. He also has the massive advantage of being able to leave the atmosphere, giving him a much better range and safety zone.

Based on speed displayed on the profiles, superman wins round 2 but round 1 goes to goku.I do have different opinion on superman's speed though sorry can't help myself to disagree but i would not argue.

 

[Yojimbo1989]

As I've said experience plays a big part on whether phasing/intangibility works in this fight. Since Superman hardly ever uses it, it's sketchy as to whether it would score a direct hit. If it didn't then he would have to phase in for it to do damage, then he'd be in a range for Goku to attack him, which would be a big problem, as for any speed advantage that Superman may have, Goku should definitely have the combat speed/reaction time to deal with it. Plus he has the Instant Transmission to bypass Superman's natural speed advantage.

 

[Yojimbo1989]

But i heard that speed difference is not likely that big so it all comes down to speed in the end.If speed difference not that big than Goku otherwise superman.

He can fight at least like...twice as fast as Goku, and his travel speed is absurdly beyond what Goku is capable of keeping up with. He also has the massive advantage of being able to leave the atmosphere, giving him a much better range and safety zone.

Goku's reaction time can actually be estimated to be around 3.5 Femtoseconds as a SSJ3, Instant Transmission also enables him to catch up to Superman in an instant and to move him to a location that works to his advantage.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Goku's reaction time can actually be estimated to be around 3.5 Femtoseconds as a SSJ3, Instant Transmission also enables him to catch up to Superman in an instant and to move him to a location that works to his advantage.

Based on? Also, IT requires a KI signature to lock onto (unless verse equalization is in play, here), and even if he teleports to Superman's location, Superman won't be in that location, for long. I highly doubt Goku would risk ITing to someone currently in space.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

As I've said experience plays a big part on whether phasing/intangibility works in this fight. Since Superman hardly ever uses it, it's sketchy as to whether it would score a direct hit.

Entirely irrelevant. When he has, he's shown to be able to vibrate his molecules at INCREDIBLY specific frequencies to allow even light to pass through. He very clearly knows how to use it.

 

[Yojimbo1989]

Goku's reaction time can actually be estimated to be around 3.5 Femtoseconds as a SSJ3, Instant Transmission also enables him to catch up to Superman in an instant and to move him to a location that works to his advantage.

Based on? Also, IT requires a KI signature to lock onto (unless verse equalization is in play, here), and even if he teleports to Superman's location, Superman won't be in that location, for long. I highly doubt Goku would risk ITing to someone currently in space.

Look up at my original post, I already gave the link.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Look up at my original post, I already gave the link.

The comic vine thread? It was based on a large number of assumptions, didn't take certain factors into consideration, and people in the comments seemed to have lengthy reasons as to why they disagreed with it. That is far from reliable, especially when Goku has never demonstrated anything on that level.

 

[Yojimbo1989]

Look up at my original post, I already gave the link.

The comic vine thread? It was based on a large number of assumptions, didn't take certain factors into consideration, and people in the comments seemed to have lengthy reasons as to why they disagreed with it. That is far from reliable, especially when Goku has never demonstrated anything on that level.

Characters in Dragon Ball have consistently displayed higher reaction time than they have raw movement speed. But anyway I think a large portion of this fight depends on whether or not both are bloodlusted or not. There's also the weakness/vulnerability to ki, which I also provided

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Characters in Dragon Ball have consistently displayed higher reaction time than they have raw movement speed. But anyway I think a large portion of this fight depends on whether or not both are bloodlusted or not. There's also the weakness/vulnerability to ki, which I also provided

In DBZ, yes. Even assuming the same is true for Goku in DBS, he still does not have anything resembling femtosecond reactions, though. I would agree bloodlusted or in-character would definitely change some things in the match, but standard vs battles assumptions dictate we use bloodlusted if not specified. I don't really think a vulnerability to ki would come into play here, as it doesn't work like kryptonite. It's more just something Superman has no resistance to, which wouldn't matter due to how hard Goku would be hitting him, anyway.