Possibly/Potentially 5-C+ key for Juubito & 3rd Form Juubi ?

[LordWhis]

I understand that this has some discussion value.

Due to the stature, hype etc. Juubito (& 3rd form Juubi as it has the same raw power) should get a possibly 5-C+ in my opinion. People generally consider Juubito to be the weakest of the god tiers as he was far above the top tiers (even the likes of Hashirama were mere fodder for him). He lost to Naruto & Sasuke only due to being mentally unbalanced & their powers counteracting his to some extent (& they still required help from the heavily amped Konoha 11). He claimed he could destroy the world. Also, the gap between him & Juubi data wasn't huge. He also absorbed the Juubi in its penultimate state & it was in a similar looking form when Hagoromo & Hamura encountered it & the former said it's revival would lead to the end of the world.

Also, Penultimate form should not be <<<<< Ultimate form.


These are my proposed ratings-

3rd form Juubi: High 6-A, Possibly/Potentially 5-C+.

Juubito 1: High 6-A, Possibly/Potentially 5-C+.

Juubito 2: Atleast High 6-A, Possibly/Potentially 5-C+.


So basically, their current tiers with a little possibly/potentially added in.

Discuss

Thank You

 

[Omimi]

they still required help from the heavily amped Konoha 11

and it was naruto who amped them to begin with

 

[Mindovin]

I agree with you other than 'Konoha 11' because it's only for rainbows and sunshines.

I think most people think Juubi slightly powerful combine power of the other 9 tailed beasts but this completly wrong. Even Without 8 tails and Kurama Juubi at least 1000 time more stronger than them and we know with a host Bijuus power focused and Bijuu and host become more effective. Also after becoming Jinchüriki of the Juubi he able to use Six Paths Sage Chakra even without prior tranining in the senjutsu.

 

[LordWhis]

they still required help from the heavily amped Konoha 11

and it was naruto who amped them to begin with

BSM Naruto can amp multiple people to his level or atleast near it, this has already been discussed.

 

[Kepekley23]

I assume the main revisions are over.

Which Juubito is this? There are two keys.

 

[LordWhis]

I assume the main revisions are over.

Which Juubito is this? There are two keys.

Yup, they are, finally !

I have given keys for each of the 2 Juubitos. They should honestly both be equally powerful in terms of raw ap but I have been a bit conservative.

 

[LordWhis]

Bump

 

[LordWhis]

Bump

 

[LordWhis]

Bump

 

[TheFinalOrder]

First off, you really need to stop taking things literal in Naruto. Not everything is Literal.

Let's analyze Obito's statement:

Viz Scan Obito states: "Your strong emotions dwell within the blade...it's a sword of the soul. The sage created this world using this blade. And I'll use it to obliterate this world!"

Here, Kishi does a poor job with portraying the context in which Obito was speaking, but there are a few things to note which you have forgotten:

• Note 1: The Sage Did Not create the planet they're on, he himself was born on the planet.

• Note 2: Every instance of Obito / Madara using "World" as a noun, is in the context of "Reality" or "The life we live in". Obito thinks the "The World they live in is hell because of his past with Kakashi/Rin" and all the other shit.

• Note 3: Every instance of mentioning "The world the sage created" be it from Madara/Obito/Toneri is in reference to the Ninja world. People having chakra, etc. We know the sage created the "Ninja World" by spreading Chakra and attempting to unite the world in peace with.

So Obito or anybody never actually refered to the planet itself in their statements. It was always philosophical. Chapter 665 cements this as when Sage Madara confronts Obito, They both look at Naruto when referencing the "Sages World" which is Kishi's way of telling the reader that Naruto is the embodiment of what the Sage wanted the world to be.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

That said, Juubito has no feats that warrant the bump in tiers. IF you were trying to bump Obito up, you would have had a better chance using Chapter 644 as proof. It heavily implies through Shikamaru's analysis of the situation and through Obito's statement of seeing the Kyuubi cloaks fire up as a response to his 4 biju bombs:

Viz Scan Obito States: "That won't help you withstand the shockwave of four ten tails biju bombs exploding together."

That each Biju Bomb Obito created was equivalent to The one The Kage's Barrier withstood and Minato teleported away. Chapter 644 does strongly imply this. I personally am content with the current rating, but if you really are trying, it's best to argue using 644. Even then, others may not be swayed.

 

[LordWhis]

That said, Juubito has no feats that warrant the bump in tiers. IF you were trying to bump Obito up, you would have had a better chance using Chapter 644 as proof. It heavily implies through Shikamaru's analysis of the situation and through Obito's statement of seeing the Kyuubi cloaks fire up as a response to his 4 biju bombs:

Viz Scan Obito States: "That won't help you withstand the shockwave of four ten tails biju bombs exploding together."

That each Biju Bomb Obito created was equivalent to The one The Kage's Barrier withstood and Minato teleported away. Chapter 644 does strongly imply this. I personally am content with the current rating, but if you really are trying, it's best to argue using 644. Even then, others may not be swayed.

Yeah, this feat also makes it possible that Obito is 5-C+.

All I'm asking for is a possibly. There is enough doubt here to warrant a possibly 5-C+ rating especially since the ap page says that possibly "should be used to list a hypothetical statistic for a character, but inconclusive due to lack of feats or viable power-scaling. Probability of said hypothetical statistic should also be indeterminate.".

This fulfills those requirements therefore, these 3 characters should all get a possibly 5-C+ .

 

[LordWhis]

Bump

 

[LordWhis]

Bump

 

[Aeyu]

I think FinalOrder is making a lot of sense here, not all comments necessarily need to be taken at face value.

 

[LordWhis]

I think FinalOrder is making a lot of sense here, not all comments necessarily need to be taken at face value.

Fine but TFO himself gave more evidence for 5-C+, furthermore, that statement is only 1 of the many points I made.

Also, in a previous thread of mine, tonnes of people said they could see Juubito being 5-C+.

There is definitely a chance that He is 5-C+

Therefore, It definitely deserves a possibly.

 

[LordWhis]

@Aeyu:

Juubito is universally considered to be a god tier, he does not scale to Hashirama & co at all since he is way beyond him. He should scale to Toner & The Last Naruto. A Possibly 5-C+ addition to his current tier is completely valid & fair for him (& 3rd form Juubi as well since it has the same raw power as he does)

 

[Ssr4vegito]

The question is if obito gets bumped to 5C+ how does it affect BSM Naruto and Sasuke

 

[LordWhis]

The question is if obito gets bumped to 5C+ how does it affect BSM Naruto and Sasuke

Not really, since their victory was due to him being psychologically imbalanced etc.

Not to mention that Naruto had to use Kurama's unique abilities to raise several characters to his level & have all of them attack Juubito at once.

There is also good old fashioned PIS.

Proof for this is that we consider Hashirama to be twice as strong as BSM Naruto on his profile (he should thus be comparable to BSM Naruto & Sasuke together ) but we know Obito roflstomped him with zero effort.

Also, someone told me that Naruto & Sasuke used abilities that Obito was weak to.

KAKASHI was helping them from inside the kamui dimension too IIRC.

& Cooperation ninjutsu is more powerful than the sum of its parts, it's kinda Naruto verse's equivalent of fusion.

So yeah, it doesn't really scale at all.

Also, I'm not asking for a bump, just a possibly 5-c+

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

they wouldnt scale as that would make hashi scale which was disagreed

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

How could Obito possibly be Moon level+ with four Bijuudama? One Bijuudama is at least 4 petatons. Creating four doesn't magically make him jump a tier.

 

[LordWhis]

How could Obito possibly be Moon level+ with four Bijuudama? One Bijuudama is at least 4 petatons. Creating four doesn't magically make him jump a tier.

Discuss that with TFO.

Also FYI, Juubidama >>>>> Tenpenchii which was calced at well over 10 petatons.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Kep said the calc was 4 petatons.

Even if a Juubidama is over a hundred petatons, creating four doesn't suggest Moon level+ at all.

 

[LordWhis]

Kep said the calc was 4 petatons.

Even if a Juubidama is over a hundred petatons, creating four doesn't suggest Moon level+ at all.

Again not my statement, it is TFO's statement, talk to him, that is not the basis of this thread, especially since I only saw his comment today.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

I mean we have a possibly for Indra and Asura, I think a possibly 5-C wouldn't hurt but I'm neutral on this, we could just add a likely higher aswell though

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

High 6-A Obito seems to make the most sense

 

[LordWhis]

I mean we have a possibly for Indra and Asura, I think a possibly 5-C wouldn't hurt but I'm neutral on this, we could just add a likely higher aswell though

I'd prefer possibly 5-c+ on both his forms & on 3rd form Juubi. (All 3 have the same raw power).

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

High 6-A Possibly higher would be better. as he isnt nearly even close to 5-C+

 

[LordWhis]

High 6-A Possibly higher would be better. as he isnt nearly even close to 5-C+

Juubito is pretty much universally considered to be a god tier. He should not scale to top tiers.

High 6-A, Possibly Low 5-C+ is a nice middle ground between just a mere higher & bumping his tier outright & as you say, it won't harm anyone.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Only that Moon level+ is based on nothing substantial.

 

[LordWhis]

@Shadow:

This is probably a bad way to make my argument but just search Naruto tier list on Google & you will see everybody puts Juubito in god tier.

There are tons of juubito vs Toneri battle threads on the net & in not 1 does anyone say that it would be a stomp either way.

 

[LordWhis]

Only that Moon level+ is based on nothing substantial.

Therefore, possibly is best.

 

[Dark649]

You need to find more than powerscaling to prove that Juubito is equal to Toneri, Obito was not completely in sinc with the Juubi like Madara.

 

[LordWhis]

You need to find more than powerscaling to prove that Juubito is equal to Toneri, Obito was not completely in sinc with the Juubi like Madara.

You don't really need to prove it if it is a possibly.

Furthermore, giving Juubi a possibly 5-c+ key will result in a nice, smooth power creep for Juubi's forms.

Also, he has a statement.

 

[Rocker1189]

I would not say 5-C+, I can say possibly 5-C that is all.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Possibly is based on what?

 

[LordWhis]

I would not say 5-C+, I can say possibly 5-C that is all.

Dude that's all I was asking for !

 

[Rocker1189]

Possibly is based on what?

Like BFF said based on what. We cant put arbitary numbers on it. That is what led to Fairy tails downgrades.

 

[LordWhis]

@Rocker & BFF: General hype & portrayal.

His statement that he could destroy the world.

Hagoromo saying that the Juubi would mean the end of the world (despite only ever encountering it in its 3rd form.

Also, creating the Shinju tree may be a 5-c feat, can anyone provide me calls which feature the Shinju tree so I can check this.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

you do realize making Juubito would make Naruto/Sasuke 5-C and in turn Hashirama..which is a big nono