Possible rule change regarding a specific feat from Bleach.

[Hasch]

So, I think this rule needs to be changed, staff only guess.

-Please refrain from attempting to revise the distance between the Seireitei and the Soul Society until the anime adaptation reaches that point. The topic has been discussed numerous times over the years and a figure has been decided on by the Calc Group.

-Is an arbitrary ruling on one specific feat with multiple ways to calc, some of which still haven't been argued.

-People being tired of the topic isn't an argument, since is completely subjective and someone being bored of a specific topic shouldn't impede other people from talking about it.

-The suggestion to wait for the anime doesn't make sense because it's a non canon adaptation, it basically discards the topic for 1 or 2 years for nothing since it will not add anything and if it does it would only apply for the anime.

-The rule had no input from the regular users from the Bleach sub forum.

-Something being discussed several times over the course of several years isn't spam, or disruptive of the forums and wiki in any way. Not when people keeps trying new methods and using new info from the novels for example (like the Shiba's role in the whole thing which explains why Ganju has a map that should be taken into account)

-The previously accepted calcs where replaced because it was "an inaccurate lowball" or because "it gets inflated results if the calc uses the Seireitei as basis" which is extremely unreasonable.

-There was one thread to discuss the rule two months ago but was staff only and was made on Dec 25 and closed on Dec 26

 

[Arcker123]

Following

 

[Damage3245]

For reference this topic was discussed about two months ago in this thread where it was decided by myself, DarkDragonMedeus, DontTalkDT, Jvando, DemonGodMitchAubin, and Antvasima that the rule was fine to keep in place.

 

[Hasch]

For reference this topic was discussed about two months ago in this thread where it was decided by myself, DarkDragonMedeus, DontTalkDT, Jvando, DemonGodMitchAubin, and Antvasima that the rule was fine to keep in place.

Antvasima simply agreed to the stance you and the other 3 users had, which was based on nothing but being bored of the topic which isn't an argument, the anime thing also doesn't make sense.

There's also the fact that a single day for the thread in Dec 25 is absurd.

 

[AKUTO123]

For reference this topic was discussed about two months ago in this thread where it was decided by myself, DarkDragonMedeus, DontTalkDT, Jvando, DemonGodMitchAubin, and Antvasima that the rule was fine to keep in place.

There may be many personnel participating in the rule, but if it does not make this rule logical, and its appearance once a year makes people bored, this should be their choice. If I think something is wrong, I should have the right to open a CRT to change it, isn't it? If I am deprived of my right to open a CRT to change what has been done, it is very unfair.

 

[Damage3245]

@AKUTO123; this is literally the basis of why we have Discussion Rules:

However, certain topics keep popping up repeatedly, generally made by new members, despite being discussed and resolved multiple times in the past. The managing staff has grown weary continuously settling the more controversial issues to rest again and again, and hence have listed a few rules, to limit redundant discussions.

If you're opposing this one, why not argue to remove every single discussion rule?

 

[Hasch]

There may be many personnel participating in the rule, but if it does not make this rule logical, and its appearance once a year makes people bored, this should be their choice. If I think something is wrong, I should have the right to open a CRT to change it, isn't it? If I am deprived of my right to open a CRT to change what has been done, it is very unfair.

Sorry, but this is supposed to be staff only as requested by Antvasima, unless a staff user allows you to post.

Should have clarified that in the OP and is my mistake.

Will ask if it's ok to have other non staff users give their opinion.

If you're opposing this one, why not argue to remove every single discussion rule?

Because it's a case by case thing?

But personally I disagree with discarding a specific feat topic just because some people is tired of it, since it's the opposite of the goal of the wiki and clearly I'm not the only one that wants to keep trying to calc the feat or just give opinions about it.

 

[Antvasima]

@DarkDragonMedeus @DontTalkDT @Jvando @DemonGodMitchAubin @Elizhaa @Celestial_Pegasus @Soldier_Blue @Shadowbokunohero @Starter_Pack @Theglassman12

Would you be willing to comment here please?

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I guess it doesn’t need a rule, but just inform everyone that people intend to wait till the anime version

 

[Damage3245]

I'm fine with the rule being removed once the adaptation reaches that part and we have new information to evaluate.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'm in the same boat as Damage, we can remove it as soon as the new Anime reaches the point.

 

[DontTalkDT]

As someone that was in agreement with the rule, I think it should stay.

 

[Damage3245]

Thank you both for commenting.

 

[Jvando]

As someone that was in agreement with the rule, I think it should stay.

Likewise. The reason why I agreed for it to stay in the meantime was that the anime would give a different perspective than what had been repeatedly argued based on the manga and novels. I see no harm in waiting until the adaptation before opening another thread then to tackle this topic

 

[KLOL506]

I mean, I don't see the problem in keeping the rule for now when we're gonna axe it anyway the moment the anime gets to that specific point so yeah, keep the rule for now, axe it when the anime comes out just like the rule itself says.

 

[Hasch]

I guess it doesn’t need a rule, but just inform everyone that people intend to wait till the anime version

I'm fine with the rule being removed once the adaptation reaches that part and we have new information to evaluate.

I'm in the same boat as Damage, we can remove it as soon as the new Anime reaches the point.

As someone that was in agreement with the rule, I think it should stay.

Likewise. The reason why I agreed for it to stay in the meantime was that the anime would give a different perspective than what had been repeatedly argued based on the manga and novels. I see no harm in waiting until the adaptation before opening another thread then to tackle this topic

I mean, I don't see the problem in keeping the rule for now when we're gonna axe it anyway the moment the anime gets to that specific point so yeah, keep the rule for now, axe it when the anime comes out just like the rule itself says.

The anime is non canon and is anywhere from 1 to 2 years before this gets adapted, no reason to wait that long in the hopes of new info that wouldn't even apply to the manga.

 

[Damage3245]

@Hasch; there is still the possibility it could provide more context. For most manga series on the site, there's the opportunity to look at the anime to see if it can shed further light on certain feats ( though this is mostly taken on case-by-case basis).

Still, the majority of people who have commented so far seem to be in favor of keeping the rule for now.

 

[Hasch]

@Hasch; there is still the possibility it could provide more context. For most manga series on the site, there's the opportunity to look at the anime to see if it can shed further light on certain feats ( though this is mostly taken on case-by-case basis).

Still, the majority of people who have commented so far seem to be in favor of keeping the rule for now.

That's at best uncertain, and it wouldn't even apply to the manga but only to the anime version. In reality, there isn't even anything the anime could possibly add when the manga already has a clock signaling the start and the ending of Ichigo's travel so it can't take less time.

Even if people are in favor for now,they must give a solid reason or remove the rule.


Just to make myself clear, the anime doesn't even have an air date yet, say it starts next season (near imposible) that's still some 50 chapters away from the feat, which means a whole year. Do we really have to wait that much for the 1% chance there's new canon info that is useful for that one feat?

 

[KLOL506]

We use anime scenes if they are overtly similar to the manga feat or the manga feat lacks too much context.

 

[Hasch]

We use anime scenes if they are overtly similar to the manga feat or the manga feat lacks too much context.

This isn't something that would benefit from that, the manga feat already has a clock timing the feat so frames or animation wouldn't change anything.

Why wait almost 2 years for something that most likely won't change anything as how things are now?

There's also the fact the calc that was decided on is an admitted lowball, even tho the previous calc that was less of a "lowball" was thrown away for being a "lowball" so why even make a less accurate calc and wait 2 years before a better calc can be attempted just because there's a small chance the anime will add something useful?

 

[Damage3245]

@Hasch; what's wrong with a bit of patience?

Anyway. I think enough staff members have probably commented at this point. It seems that the rule can stay for now.

 

[Antvasima]

Hasch does make a good point that we might have to wait for years for the anime to get that far though.

Btw: I hope that Tite Kubo will get the chance to develop that story the way that he originally intended it towards the end, rather than getting sick and being forced to rush it by his idiot editors.

 

[Damage3245]

I don't have any issue with waiting that long. I'll still be here at that time when it comes to discuss it.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, but most others tend to be less patient than being willing to wait for 3 years. Mind you, I have waited for 5 years or even 6 years until I found somebody willing to clean up certain important verses (Umineko, Demonbane, Tenchi Muyo, and Naruto, for example), but nevertheless, we may demand too much from our community.

 

[Damage3245]

Yes, but most others tend to be less patient than being willing to wait for 3 years. Mind you, I have waited for 5 years or even 6 years until I found somebody willing to clean up certain important verses (Umineko, Demonbane, Tenchi Muyo, and Naruto, for example), but nevertheless, we may demand too much from our community.

There are plenty of other pressing issues for the verse that will keep us busy for some time IMO. I have a few revisions planned out with other Bleach fans to be done in time.

So a topic like this isn't really a priority. We can revisit the subject once some of the more major issues have been dealt with first, if that's alright.

 

[Elizhaa]

I am neutral about the rule staying.

Anyway. I think enough staff members have probably commented at this point. It seems that the rule can stay for now.

• True, it seems like there are enough supports for the rule to stay.

 

[Antvasima]

There are plenty of other pressing issues for the verse that will keep us busy for some time IMO. I have a few revisions planned out with other Bleach fans to be done in time.

So a topic like this isn't really a priority. We can revisit the subject once some of the more major issues have been dealt with first, if that's alright.

This is a valid point.

I suppose that this thread has been rejected then.

 

[Hasch]

@Hasch; what's wrong with a bit of patience?

Anyway. I think enough staff members have probably commented at this point. It seems that the rule can stay for now.

There are plenty of other pressing issues for the verse that will keep us busy for some time IMO. I have a few revisions planned out with other Bleach fans to be done in time.

So a topic like this isn't really a priority. We can revisit the subject once some of the more major issues have been dealt with first, if that's alright.

This is a valid point.

I suppose that this thread has been rejected then.

I'ts not just waiting some time though, it's waiting up to 2 or even 3 years, half of the time you take to get a college degree, for no real reason since the chances of the anime changing anything are very low. I think It's one thing to wait for people to want to do something, it's another thing to forbid people from doing something for that long on the slight chance something might be different.

Calling that a bit of patience is unreasonable, all current CRT's for Bleach will take around 1 or 2 months, surely discussing one feat wouldn't dilate that to take 10 times that long.

Would be better to make a list of all the proposed methods for the calc and explain why they are flawed, then let people free to try to find a different method, or challenge the rebuttal of the other methods with CRT in the calc section, since then it would only by a case of math.

I'm in the same boat as Damage, we can remove it as soon as the new Anime reaches the point.

As someone that was in agreement with the rule, I think it should stay.

Likewise. The reason why I agreed for it to stay in the meantime was that the anime would give a different perspective than what had been repeatedly argued based on the manga and novels. I see no harm in waiting until the adaptation before opening another thread then to tackle this topic

I ask you guys again, it's waiting 2 or 3 years for the very low chance of the anime changing something, reasonable?

 

[Soldier_Blue]

I am neutral about the rule staying.

Anyway. I think enough staff members have probably commented at this point. It seems that the rule can stay for now.

• True, it seems like there are enough supports for the rule to stay.

^ I'm in the same boat here.

 

[Hasch]

^ I'm in the same boat here.

I would like to at least get an answer as to why we keep a rule that was implemented when it was thought the anime would be coming soon, in this situation when we are looking a over at year of waiting (since there's no set date or any statement so we don't even know if production already started) for one feat the Bleach section clearly wants to discuss, on the basis of the anime maybe adding something, which is very unlikely.

We don't even know if it will be one cour, or even have official confirmation on which studio is working on it.

 

[Damage3245]

@Hasch; since we've still got a couple of months of revisions for other important Bleach topics to get through, how about we return to this thread once they're settled and see if there's been any new info that's came out by then?

 

[Antvasima]

Damage seems to have come up with a reasonable compromise solution.

 

[Hasch]

Ok, I agree to that for now, but can we discuss this again if we reach 2 more months without info on the anime or if the air date is pulled to near 2022?

 

[Antvasima]

Wait for Damage to work out a few revision threads, and then ask him again if you can restart this discussion.

 

[Hasch]

Wait for Damage to work out a few revision threads, and then ask him again if you can restart this discussion.

Ok, there's only two revisions which should be done in at most a month.

I still would like for the people that voted here to answer this if posible before the thread is closed tho, people didn't really debate my points and I'm genuinely curious on whats the criteria for this.

I would like to at least get an answer as to why we keep a rule that was implemented when it was thought the anime would be coming soon, in this situation when we are looking a over at year of waiting (since there's no set date or any statement so we don't even know if production already started) for one feat the Bleach section clearly wants to discuss, on the basis of the anime maybe adding something, which is very unlikely.

We don't even know if it will be one cour, or even have official confirmation on which studio is working on it.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, several important revisions tend to take considerably longer than a month.

 

[Damage3245]

@Antvasima; since we've come to a compromise solution that both parties have agreed to, can we close the thread for now and revisit the issue in a couple months?

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I will do so.