Possible Naruto Speed Update

[Akiretsu]

Ok, so I'm new member here, glad to be contributing if i can. This is gonna be using Raikage as the basis. First off, I would like to know where does Naruto portrayal stand?

Raikage himself is portrayed as a lightning bolt in top speed: http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/4/47437/3707874-13.png

^Implies Author intents Raikage to be Lightning Fast and thus Minato a Lightning Timer.

Now, I understand everything is not that simple. So, i have another piece of evidence That supports Raikage being Lightning fast if it wasn't accepted. Kage Summit Sasuke should be above Itachi during his final battle before he died where he reacted to Kirin and even if you don't agree with that, there is no way you can say Itachi in this moment: http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/105334/3078815-428715-naruto_manga_391_2.png Is above Kage Summit Sasuke (He's Low on Chakra, Near Death, Near Blind and Injured).

Now, I don't know what the accepted speed of Kirin is here, but I do know Raikage is faster than Kirin. Here is why, going with Sasuke being superior or at least equal to that Itachi who reacted to Kirin, When Raikage went full speed, Sasuke couldn't even track his speed as shown and Stated: http://z.mfcdn.net/store/manga/8/49-463.0/compressed/dnaruto_463_sleepyfans.15.jpg (Read Karins statement).

So in actuality, it'll be something like: Raikage's Speed > KS Sasuke's Perception >= IP Itachi's Perception > Kirin's speed.

I not sure if this is the place to present calcs. But just to give a good estiment Storm clouds form at 200-4000 meters. In the fight Zetsu stated attributed Kirin to reacking the ground in 1/1000th of a second. That'll make Kirin's speed at it's lowest possible Mach 583+ and Raikage's speed Mach 612+ by saying he's 1.05x faster which is barely an increase. 1/4th of a 2x boost infact and we have people like Madara who can react and physically block Raikage from give or take a foot away and inbound:

http://img.***********.to/manga/naruto/563/03.png

http://img.***********.to/manga/naruto/563/04.png

Madara would at least have had to move his hand 2 feet bringing it up and across his torso. Going any further put's his Combat Speed and by extension Reaction Speed in the high triple digit mach or maybe even quad mach. This would scale to people everyone on or near Base Madara's level.

Thoughts and is there anything we can do with this?

 

[Hiei312]

you can't really compare Itachi to Sasuke like that though


Itachi has always had better reactions (and taijutsu in general). even much later on when they fought Sage Kabuto Itachi was reacting to things Sasuke couldn't perceive. Itachi also held his own much better against Bee and Chakra mode Naruto, when Sasuke a while earlier had basically been blitzed by Bee.

 

[Akiretsu]

you can't really compare Itachi to Sasuke like that though

Itachi has always had better reactions (and taijutsu in general). even much later on when they fought Sage Kabuto Itachi was reacting to things Sasuke couldn't perceive. Itachi also held his own much better against Bee and Chakra mode Naruto, when Sasuke a while earlier had basically been blitzed by Bee.

I'll look back over the Itachi vs Kabuto thing, but I don't remember Itachi reacting to anything Sasuke couldn't see. Not to mention you can't really compare Edo Itachi to The Itachi in the pursuit arc. He's basically prime. And How is the Kage Summit Arc Sasuke inferior to the Injured, Near Blind, i'll and low on chaka/stamina Itachi?

Taijutsu is simply fighting skill, nothing more. It doesn't reflect a persons perception. Rock Lee vs Sasuke was the best example of this back in part 1.

http://i2.**********.com/naruto/37/naruto-1565556.jpg

Quoting all of Edo Itachi's feats are good, but that doesn't translate to the Itachi Sasuke fought. Again, Near Blind, Low on Chakra/Stamina, Injured and I'll. While I'll agree that a Prime or Near Prime MS Itachi is better than a prime or Near Prime MS Sasuke, the same can't be said for the Pursuit arc Itachi. Makes no sense. Oh and MS Itachi wouldn't be better than EMS Sasuke in anything other intelligence.

 

[Davy0]

No... as he hadn't gotten better than Itachi since they just fought before he gained the MHS and Sasuke did no noticeable training. He barely fought against his brother then who almost took both his eyes, and Kabuto was a "strong" opponent due to his hax alone, he wasn't an effective fighter on the level of the higher tier characters unless you can show some feats of Kabuto's skill against characters like Sannin going full-out, because if I'm not mistaken, Tsunade was still affected by her fear of blood which Kabuto used to weaken her focus when they fought as this was the woman who was giving Orochimaru a run for his money. Kabuto's "Sage Mode" didn't even act like an actual "Sage Mode", it was basically Orochimaru's influence overtaking him.

 

[Hiei312]

the thing is that Itachi was already almost dying and nearly blind when the fight against sasuke started (in fact one of the books released later shows Itachi almost did die from his disease a while before that fight happened) , yet he was still clearly superior to Sasuke (since it was stated he would have easily killed him if he wanted)

i dn't really think kage summit sasuke is particularly better than the Sasuke that fought Itachi..because he had just lost his cursed seal and was still not very proficient at using mangekyo sharingan. he'd be around the same level at best...possibly a bit weaker overall...

 

[Akiretsu]

No... as he hadn't gotten better than Itachi since they just fought before he gained the MHS and Sasuke did no noticeable training.

Actually, there is a noticable time skip in the manga around the time Sasuke awakened his MS. He even makes several statements around the time that leading up to Kage Summit that imply training. Also, take into account this, Sasuke doesn't have to be greater than the Itachi That (In the specific moment) reacted to Kirin. No way you can say MS Sasuke was = to Hebi Sasuke and is still below Itachi right before Kirin struck. Maybe you can say he was even (Which honestly would make no sense), but not even the Manga canon agrees with that notion.

MS Sasuke when fighting Raikage can be equal to Itachi right before Kirin struck (Which makes no sense) and the Raikage speed would still be > Kirin. Which would still put peaple at base Madara's level or near it high triple mach if not breakng quad mach. In reaction/movement speed (Not travel)

 

[Davy0]

Oh by all means, show these statements that imply training. And then show just how long that timeskip was. It couldn't have been more than what? two weeks to a month since their was a sense of urgency in the arc before. I guess he's capable of outclassing Itachi or keeping up with Itachi after two weeks of wait time for his eyes to heal. That's interesting.

I guess good ol' elbow grease beats the drugs and training he did with Orochimaru after two years.

 

[Akiretsu]

Oh by all means, show these statements that imply training. And then show just how long that timeskip was. It couldn't have been more than what? two weeks to a month since their was a sense of urgency in the arc before. I guess he's capable of outclassing Itachi or keeping up with Itachi after two weeks of wait time for his eyes to heal. That's interesting.
I guess good ol' elbow grease beats the drugs and training he did with Orochimaru after two years.

Well, here is the only statement directly from Sasuke that imply it:

http://i2.**********.com/naruto/453/naruto-9067.jpg

Earlier during Sasuke vs Bee, Juugo makes a statement about Sasuke telling them about Amaturatsu that Itachi used:

http://i6.**********.com/naruto/415/naruto-8379.jpg

After Itachi vs Sasuke and before Sasuke vs Bee, The thing about Jiraiyas death happened and decoding his message or whatever happened as well as Naruto being depressed. IIRC around like 2 maybe 3 days went by. When Sasuke fights Bee, he uses Tsukuyomi and amaturatsu for the first time (Only one of which was stated to be the New ability which implies he achieved tsukiyomi before fighting Bee which implies training). After Bee dupes them, Sasuke goes off to rest, IIRC this is stated in 415-16. We don't see him again until after pain Arc which is several days long, It's confusing really. But After, Sasuke makes the statement he makes in the first link.

During Kage Summit. Sasuke is spamming Susanoo, Spammming Ama, Spamming Blaze release, Showing off new Contracts with summonings...That doesn't happen without some level of training, and while yes, at the time, Itachi's susanoo was Superior and his tsukiyomi was superior, Sasuke was superior at Amaturatsu and Controllin it.

Sasuke should still be >= To Itachi the moment before Kirin struck. Makes no sense for not to be. For gods sakes, Itachi was Blind, low on Chakra/Stamina, injured and I'll. Are you seriously about to say that Itachi is superior to MS Sasuke who, considering everything, that happened in Kage summit before Obito had to resue him from Oonoki is inferior to Itachi in this moment:

http://i1.**********.com/naruto/391/naruto-7891.jpg

Is superior to this Sasuke:

https://41.media.tumblr.com/b650af7538fa3686cfd864b2ff426dc0/tumblr_nwaxz73V3M1r4pq4io2_1280.jpg

In everything including perception?

 

[Akiretsu]

the thing is that Itachi was already almost dying and nearly blind when the fight against sasuke started (in fact one of the books released later shows Itachi almost did die from his disease a while before that fight happened) , yet he was still clearly superior to Sasuke (since it was stated he would have easily killed him if he wanted)
i dn't really think kage summit sasuke is particularly better than the Sasuke that fought Itachi..because he had just lost his cursed seal and was still not very proficient at using mangekyo sharingan. he'd be around the same level at best...possibly a bit weaker overall...

That's the thing though. For what's outlined in my OP, Sasuke deosn't NEED to be superior to Itachi in the moment he reacted to Kirin. Simply even, but again, that makes no sense given sasuke's feats. Now you're saying Itachi would have dominated the kage Summit considering how far Sasuke got. Manga doesn't agree with that. Sasuke in KS is vastly superior to Itachi Pursut Sasuke. I don't even see how that can be debated.

 

[Hiei312]

Sasuke was just getting his ass beat by kage after kage in the summit. he didn't really get very far at all. he was just really stuborn.

>_>


and While Itachi wouldn't have "dominated" it, he would certainly have done better than Sasuke in the kage summit... just him activating V3 susano'o with yata + totsuka would be a far bigger threat to the kages than anything sasuke did. his genjutsu would also be far more dangerous ...Itachi has actually beaten kage level ppl with generic genjutsu alone.

 

[Akiretsu]

To be fair, Sasuke did beat Danzou who is a Kage lvl Shinobi. Highly doubt Hebi Sasuke is on par or near that level. And I don't see Itachi being superior to MS Sasuke the instant before Kirin. His Skill in Susanoo and Tsukiyomi don't reflect perception. Obito skill in Kamui was superior to Kakashi's, but he still can't do much better than Kakashi would against a Base Gai. What proves Itachi while Tired, Injured, low on chakra, almost completely blind and I'll is superior than a slightly exhausted MS Sasuke in perception?

Nothing does. Where as Sasuke's feats do.

 

[Akiretsu]

So....is it acceptable to say MS Sasuke in Kage Summit would at least be equal to Itachi in the moment of reacting to Kirin so we can move along this conversation?